Toast Round 6 = Collingwood 59-27 Hawthorn

[Professor Knowall]

At this stage it's only relevant with Richmond as the draw virtually made percentage redundant for us.

So we need another draw!

 

[ClaytonM]

So we need another draw!

Only if it is a choice between that and a loss thanks.

 

[Go Woods]

With Kelly getting injured and Cox struggling could we bring in Dunn to replace Moore in defence and move Moore forward? I know Moore has been in AA form in the backline but we can’t keep relying on Checkers to kick bags every week. You can see the last two weeks before last night when checkers struggles we at a team struggle to kick goals. Willing to give Ben Reid one last chance when his fit to play forward. Or do we give Cameron another chance?

Been thinking about this one now that Will is sidelined, not that I'm relying on a first gamer to be our main forward target. The love affair storey for me is to play Moore out of the square again too, but he is such a gun at CHB. Dunn's strength is at FB, can't see Roughy playing Moore 's role in defence...Maybe persist with Cox on the drier grounds in Perth, bring Reid in if he is finally fit for Will as much as it pains me to suggest it. We are really scrapping the barrel for talls up forward...

 

[Albert Parker]

Its not cherry picking anything this team and system started then thats why...

You can ignore that year if you like (to cherry pick), imo it doesnt help you.
Its still sh*t 2 , 3 and 0. With 18 a GF team and 19 a PF team. This system and current side lack a foot to throat hunger of most premiership teams.

Its a very defensive system and side, has also rarely broke 100 points in a game, hell even 90 points is a hard ask majority of weeks...

I think we'd all like a team that kicked 100 points per game and were burying sides by 10 goals plus.
However, modern football games tend to be lower scoring grinds.

In that respect, we have been relatively successful at winning games in the past 2 seasons as you note.
The ladder gets determined by Wins and then by percentage (of which we are second in the league and have been in the top 4 in each of the past 2 seasons as well, despite your protests).
We also play to our strength in that respect, with a solid defensive unit.

Things which would assist our ability to score bigger and win by bigger margins would be

- better connectivity with Grundy's ruck work to our midfield. We don't win nearly as many clearances as we could if Grundy was a more effective tap ruckman

- over use of handball at times in our midfield, which slows our transition into the forward line and impedes our ability for leading forwards (DeGoey, Stephenson, Elliott) to mark it. If Quaynor can continue to break lines, we'll be assisted by that quicker ball movement out of defence. Mayne and Scharenberg continue to do too much sideways kicking over 10 metres. I'd prefer to see Murphy in the team over Scharenberg for that reason.

- Cox doesn't hold enough marks, nor even impact enough contests despite his height. Again last night, Sicily (and McEvoy early on) took too many marks uncontested. Mihocek provides a contest, but Cox is too easily outbodied, drops his head in anticipation of contact and flies with one hand even with marginal contact placed on him.

- We've also tended to miss a lot of set shots on goals at times - DeGoey, Stephenson, Cal Brown, Phillips. We need to practice more set shot kicking while fatigued. We have the ability to kill contests often with dominant passages of play, but just don't capitalise on it on the scoreboard

 

[left at home]

With Kelly getting injured and Cox struggling could we bring in Dunn to replace Moore in defence and move Moore forward? I know Moore has been in AA form in the backline but we can’t keep relying on Checkers to kick bags every week. You can see the last two weeks before last night when checkers struggles we at a team struggle to kick goals. Willing to give Ben Reid one last chance when his fit to play forward. Or do we give Cameron another chance?

Or leave Moore were he is, and play dunny forward which he has played in the past

 

[Maggie5]

Gee both Hawthorn and Richmond (not a draw) deserved to lose their main intention last night was to rough up players. Although we held our ground as I don't think we started any, I loved how we went back to playing footy quickly.

I wonder whether this was part of the planning that went into the game as judging on player positioning and tactics, think that a lot of thought went into last nights game and the players played their role.

 

[Big Bryza]

Kudos to Bucks and the coaches. We always get beaten by Hawthorn trying to play the same way. Loved the shuffling of the magnets and the blooding of a few youngsters. How at home does IQ look? We have a player there. Atu is a natural crumber and if he can capitalise on his front and centre efforts he's going to be a really good forward for us, adding a new dynamic.

Really enjoyed Billy and Stevo up the ground. Stevo is as talented as any player on our list but he's almost a victim of us being a good side since he started. He needs to find a better work rate and last night is the way to go for him. Let's not forget he was drafted as a wingman.

Great effort, bring on the Cats.

 

[Thefly38]

Impressed with IQ great run and seems to have a very penetrating kick.

like WHE game showed a lot of intent

Atu didn’t look out of place at all

thought Crisp was better

Treloar to they eye seemed to use it a lot better although his handball as become slick or he threw it atleast 3 times.

Darcy Moore is the best defender in the game or on his way too it. (Harris Andrew similar)

 

[ClaytonM]

If think it was definitely a plan.

The hawks talls certainly play well as a unit. Many of Sisily's marks were a result of good teamwork. Other talls engaged all our talls in the contest and left Sisily free to take virtually uncontested marks.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Anyone notice Treloar and Pendles in the forward line? Very different.

 

[HFF]

We got a lift from a lot of players who were deemed out of touch.

Phillips spent much more time in his natural position and he looked harder over the ball too.
Elliott was electric and smooth around the ball.
WHE looked better staying closer to the forward 50.
Stephenson played a different role purely to give him more tricks and involvement to hold him in good stead.
Varcoe much cleaner and harder at the ball.
Scharenberg also strong around the ball and clean.

 

[Maggie5]

Interesting after game interview last night from Bucks.

Did I get the impression that he wasn't happy about taking Elliot off after the knock to the shin or did I misinterpret?

 

[loki04]

I think your point is only relevant to percentage, and not relevant at all to finals.
Who cares if we only kick 60 points to win a GF.

I think its relevant to hunger and want to win at all costs.
I thinks its relevant to ability to score frequently and heavily.
I think our system will get you there to contend but not be good enough to beat a quality team with better offensive game much like 18.


I think the 18 GF shows exactly the concern I have with it.

2019 season how many games that year did we let the opposition back in the game to either get close to winning or actually winning the game after a great start? We played often 1 great quarter or 1.5 if we were having a good day and would just go to sleep.
11 first quarter wins before we lost one and we let many sides back in or beat us.

 

[loki04]

Interesting after game interview last night from Bucks.

Did I get the impression that he wasn't happy about taking Elliot off after the knock to the shin or did I misinterpret?

Sounded like he wasnt enthralled with it but accepted the medicos call.

 

[stormskye]

I think its relevant to hunger and want to win at all costs.
I thinks its relevant to ability to score frequently and heavily.
I think our system will get you there to contend but not be good enough to beat a quality team with better offensive game much like 18.


I think the 18 GF shows exactly the concern I have with it.

2019 season how many games that year did we let the opposition back in the game to either get close to winning or actually winning the game after a great start? We played often 1 great quarter or 1.5 if we were having a good day and would just go to sleep.
11 first quarter wins before we lost one and we let many sides back in or beat us.

Can’t buy any of this logic. We lost GF and prelim by a kick. We weren’t flogged. So the teams that beat us didn’t score much either. 1 goal losses doesn’t mean they are offensively better. 5 or 10 goals then yes.

Our percentage speaks for itself. We lost to gws by a kick and Essendon by 3 goals. Ain’t exactly flogging...

We are coming off a good win with key personal out and some great kids be happy. or be unhappy if we win or lose...

 

[loki04]

Anyone notice Treloar and Pendles in the forward line? Very different.

I didnt notice it but Buckley has done that before. Treloar in particular kicked a few last time he did it.

 

[DinoSoar]

Interesting after game interview last night from Bucks.

Did I get the impression that he wasn't happy about taking Elliot off after the knock to the shin or did I misinterpret?

My interpretation was that he was fine with but it was Elliott that was unhappy about it and wanted to keep playing.

 

[sr36]

Or leave Moore were he is, and play dunny forward which he has played in the past

I'd go Roughhead for now and continue to do what we've been doing for 7 years - cross your fingers about Reid.

 

[loki04]

Can’t buy any of this logic. We lost GF and prelim by a kick. We weren’t flogged. So the teams that beat us didn’t score much either. 1 goal losses doesn’t mean they are offensively better. 5 or 10 goals then yes.

When you look at our system it does.
We are a very defensive team, we deny footy and set up for interecptions and clog the back half.
That is the area of the ground that is premiership worthy my concern is the ability to be a consistent offensive threat throughout a game. Be able to score enough to win cleanly and when in front keep the door shut.

Our attacking system both in ball movement and fwd 50 are poor and flawed. It is not premiership worthy.

We are P.Roos and R.Lyon def style team. Hate it. We rely on oppositions system breaking down due to our shutdown game. Teams after q1 often readjust.

2018 we lost the unlosable GF after quarter time blitz. Who loses a GF when up by 5 flipping goals in an utterly dominant quarter display?
This going to sleep rope a dope system is who...constantly leaves the opposition in the game and belief they can win it.

I am genuinely bemused you guys cant see the massive flaws and the cost it has already done in both 18 and 19.
2020 we're relying on fortune or are we hoping to kick an extra 1st quarter goal to protect the following 3 quarters?

You guys are relying on hope rather then confidence in it.

 

[TradeDraft]

Still Trouble Scoring past the 1st Qtr

 

[TradeDraft]

Roughy looked a bit off the pace tonight.

Might be a Bit Distracted

 

[barrackers]

Gee both Hawthorn and Richmond (not a draw) deserved to lose their main intention last night was to rough up players. Although we held our ground as I don't think we started any, I loved how we went back to playing footy quickly.

I wonder whether this was part of the planning that went into the game as judging on player positioning and tactics, think that a lot of thought went into last nights game and the players played their role.

Essendon also went the body and we didn't cope. I thought we worked harder and didn't look intimidated last night; Varcoe's bump was great to see.

In terms of structure without Sidebottom, DeGoey and Daicos we were forced to be less predicable in the middle and it wasn't as easy for the opposition to plan. One learning that needs to come from last night is to mix things up and rotate different players through the midfield when things aren't working.

 

[Maggie5]

I think its relevant to hunger and want to win at all costs.
I thinks its relevant to ability to score frequently and heavily.
I think our system will get you there to contend but not be good enough to beat a quality team with better offensive game much like 18.


I think the 18 GF shows exactly the concern I have with it.

2019 season how many games that year did we let the opposition back in the game to either get close to winning or actually winning the game after a great start? We played often 1 great quarter or 1.5 if we were having a good day and would just go to sleep.
11 first quarter wins before we lost one and we let many sides back in or beat us.

Do you really think it is all about system?

Maybe to a point but you do what you can with the players you have available at any given time.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It was a pretty convincing win and shows what we can achieve this year. I don’t see any point in a match review of the 2018 Grand final.

DeGoey and Sidebottom will improve us further, whilst the introduction of fresh blood has given us plenty of things to be confident about.

 

[sr36]

Do you really think it is all about system?

Maybe to a point but you do what you can with the players you have available at any given time.

I'm with Loki on this. Not really about the necessity for smashing teams, but our game style. I don't think we are getting the best out of our players. We bring it in slowly and then squeeze up to try to lock it in for repeat entries. How often do we actually score goals from these repeat entries? We've got a bunch of medium sized forwards with pace who are really damaging in space but don't do much when we bring it in to congestion. Our game style doesn't suit them at all, because it regularly involves congestion. When we lose, it's invariably because our forward entries were to congestion, whereas the other team got easy goals because they broke through our squeeze and got it in to an open forward line.

There were good signs against the Hawks in terms of quicker initial entries, hopefully that becomes a trend.

I still give us a chance to give it a shake, because our mids and defence are bloody good. But I don't think we are playing the ideal style for our group.