Women's Footy AFLW Bulldogs - 2022 Round 1 vs Demons

[dogwatch]

McCarthy was not picked off as I understand it was a personal choice. Also I think it is very unlikely McCarthy or any of the Irish players will be playing in the 2021 season with international border restrictions, so if we can I get a first round pick I think it's a big win.

As it currently stands we are looking like to lose just 2-3 players (McCarthy, Munyard and an another) to other clubs and these will be TRADES not poached.

Our core leadership group of Blackburn, Lamb, Huntington, McLeod, Scott are here for the long hall and are already contracted for 2021 and won't be leaving any time soon. Our younger talent in Newton, Toogood, Morris-Dalton, etc are also not going anywhere.

I know it's frustrating to lose McCarthy but we won't be seeing the mass exodus we saw in 2019/2020 and we likely won't see that ever again. The talent pool is growing each and every year and when the final four expansion clubs enter the competition (which at time of writing could be years away) clubs will certainly not have to give up what they did in 2019/2020.

But you do have a point the competition won't fully settle until around season 8-10 but I guess this was to be expected and it can be a little tough barracking. Personally I always find it easier to focus on our core players who will never desert us, it helps.

I appreciate the insights OG.

I note that "personal choice" makes it sound better but I remain suspicious. How does such a personal choice come about? If she thought "hell I'm not going back to Melbourne, it's got as much Covid19 as Ireland" or if she has relatives in Perth then I can agree.

But I wonder if they might have got in her ear - and when the news breaks it comes expressed as a personal choice. That's how off-season works in the men's game.

 

[Yojimbo]

The big clubs are big in the AFL competition.

The big clubs are big in the AFLW competition.

Some things change and some stay the same.

 

[Pugz89]

Looks like one of our few bright spots from last year Aisling McCarthey is set to head to West Coast.

https://womens.afl/news/51677/trade-period-preview-dees-bracing-for-exodus-tigers-eye-reinforcements

Also Hannah Munyard who I know nothing about is heading to Adelaide.

We are apparently bringing in Katie Lynch - a young key forward from Collingwood.

Based on the picks mentioned in this article (Katie Lynch trade value not indicated) we look set to have 4 picks in the top 15 of the Melbourne pool at the draft, including pick 2 so hopefully it is a strong draft.

Might be overrating draft picks or whatever, but I feel like Aisling is worth more than pick 16. She is developing superbly and we will miss her inside grunt.

 

[Oliver G]

I appreciate the insights OG.

I note that "personal choice" makes it sound better but I remain suspicious. How does such a personal choice come about? If she thought "hell I'm not going back to Melbourne, it's got as much Covid19 as Ireland" or if she has relatives in Perth then I can agree.

But I wonder if they might have got in her ear - and when the news breaks it comes expressed as a personal choice. That's how off-season works in the men's game.

I am not sure of the exact circumstance but a source has indicated that it was her choice and not a situation where it will be a priority pick used to poach her.

Might be overrating draft picks or whatever, but I feel like Aisling is worth more than pick 16. She is developing superbly and we will miss her inside grunt.

Aisling is a big loss but I believe her spot is replaceable, we have some young players who are developing into a similar player. What we won't be losing is key position players like Huntington and Toogood which we were really missing in 2019 and parts of 2020 when Toogood was injured.

Isabella Grant should make her debut as well and she will be a huge inclusion.

 

[Oliver G]

Trade Completed...

McCarthy goes to West Coast along with Pick 3, for Pick 2 and Pick 16 (10 in Victorian Draft). Big bonus in getting Pick 2.

Our picks are currently... Pick 2, 16, 19, 33.

 

[Prince Imperial]

The "personal reasons" of McCarthy are West Coast offering her a plumb physiotherapy role.

https://www.the42.ie/aisling-mccarthy-feature-west-coast-eagles-5166363-Aug2020/

I don't blame McCarthy or any of the women players who are being lured away from our club for purely financial reasons.

The real blame with is with the AFLW who are refusing to implement a proper salary cap system with female players (unlike the men) able to be given employment and uncapped Additional Service Agreements (individual player sponsorships). This has already cost us Kearney, Conti and Brennan and is a blight on the competition both in terms of fairness and in ensuring that clubs act with financial responsibility.

 

[Oliver G]

I don't blame McCarthy or any of the women players who are being lured away from our club for purely financial reasons.

The real blame with is with the AFLW who are refusing to implement a proper salary cap system with female players (unlike the men) able to be given employment and uncapped Additional Service Agreements (individual player sponsorships). This has already cost us Kearney, Conti and Brennan and is a blight on the competition both in terms of fairness and in ensuring that clubs act with financial responsibility.

The move is not just for "purely financial reasons", it's a contributing factor but there are other reasons such as West Coast having an Irish program etc, but I do agree that ASS is a serious problem and needs to be addressed.

It doesn't get a lot of mentions as it hasn't affected every club in the same way. We did lose Conti and Kearney with ASS being a factor but Kearney went back to the club she had been for years prior to Dogs.

I guess that's the early price to pay for running a successful women's program. Fortunately as each season goes on it will become less of a problem, we've banked a Premiership already, have a great core group of players who here for the long haul along with a terrific women's program and have a big redevelopment of our home ground with AFLW at the forefront.

The future is bright even though it can tough barracking with some of the league's decisions sometimes.

On a side note for those wondering why we would bother trading 3 for 2 the ever reliable Sarah Black provided a great explanation...

 

[dogwatch]

The "personal reasons" of McCarthy are West Coast offering her a plumb physiotherapy role.

https://www.the42.ie/aisling-mccarthy-feature-west-coast-eagles-5166363-Aug2020/

I don't blame McCarthy or any of the women players who are being lured away from our club for purely financial reasons.

The real blame with is with the AFLW who are refusing to implement a proper salary cap system with female players (unlike the men) able to be given employment and uncapped Additional Service Agreements (individual player sponsorships). This has already cost us Kearney, Conti and Brennan and is a blight on the competition both in terms of fairness and in ensuring that clubs act with financial responsibility.

Brilliantly put.

Sorry Oliver, but I can't muster any enthusiasm for the AFLW while this is going on. We seem to have been hit harder than most other clubs too.

Same old same old.

 

[Oliver G]

Brilliantly put.

Sorry Oliver, but I can't muster any enthusiasm for the AFLW while this is going on. We seem to have been hit harder than most other clubs too.

Same old same old.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but as I explained above there are reasons to why we have been hit harder than others and it's because we run a successful program.

The move is not just for "purely financial reasons", it's a contributing factor but there are other reasons such as West Coast having an Irish program etc, but I do agree that ASS is a serious problem and needs to be addressed.

It doesn't get a lot of mentions as it hasn't affected every club in the same way. We did lose Conti and Kearney with ASS being a factor but Kearney went back to the club she had been for years prior to Dogs.

I guess that's the early price to pay for running a successful women's program. Fortunately as each season goes on it will become less of a problem, we've banked a Premiership already, have a great core group of players who here for the long haul along with a terrific women's program and have a big redevelopment of our home ground with AFLW at the forefront.

As tough as it is we have a great program and we are one of the top supported teams in the competition with our home games averaging the highest among Victorian clubs.

I know it can be tough sometimes but the club is in a great position to be the benchmark AFLW club for years to come. If we lose one or two players a year it's a small price to pay really. The Whitten Oval is going to be an amazing venue in 5 years.

Don't get me wrong I totally think there are many flaws with how the AFLW is being run at league level and the ASS is providing weaker clubs with a big loophole. We have so many staff and players who are going to stick around for years to come and they certainly deserve our support.

 

[Prince Imperial]

The move is not just for "purely financial reasons", it's a contributing factor but there are other reasons such as West Coast having an Irish program etc, but I do agree that ASS is a serious problem and needs to be addressed.

It doesn't get a lot of mentions as it hasn't affected every club in the same way. We did lose Conti and Kearney with ASS being a factor but Kearney went back to the club she had been for years prior to Dogs.

I guess that's the early price to pay for running a successful women's program. Fortunately as each season goes on it will become less of a problem, we've banked a Premiership already, have a great core group of players who here for the long haul along with a terrific women's program and have a big redevelopment of our home ground with AFLW at the forefront.

The future is bright even though it can tough barracking with some of the league's decisions sometimes.

Kearney is a teacher who was given a job at North's community arm ("the Hub"). Yes, she had played for Melbourne University in the VWFL and they had an affiliation with North; however there are plenty of ex-Melb Uni players in the AFLW (including Ellie Blackburn) who did not join North.

Whilst I accept that there may be other minor factors, the overwhelming factor in all these cases is $$$.

I will continue to support our AFLW team and attend matches when I can but the system is rooted.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Nothing wrong with the ASAs, they are only uncapped for the top two players at each club. Employment Agreements, on the other hand, do have the potential to create an uneven competition. But clearly that hasn't happened yet, considering the poor performance of many of the league's richest clubs.

If a "proper salary cap system" was applied, there would be even less chance for a team to hold on to all of Blackburn, Kearney, Conti and Brennan in a 14-team league.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Nothing wrong with the ASAs, they are only uncapped for the top two players at each club. Employment Agreements, on the other hand, do have the potential to create an uneven competition. But clearly that hasn't happened yet, considering the poor performance of many of the league's richest clubs.

If a "proper salary cap system" was applied, there would be even less chance for a team to hold on to all of Blackburn, Kearney, Conti and Brennan in a 14-team league.

Nothing wrong with ASA's per se, but they should be capped for all players. If things don't change starting from the next CBA, then the richer clubs like Richmond are going to overwhelm all of the smaller Victorian clubs in this competition including yours no matter how good it looks now for some of them.

 

[Oliver G]

Kearney is a teacher who was given a job at North's community arm ("the Hub"). Yes, she had played for Melbourne University in the VFWL and they had an affiliation with North; however there are plenty of ex-Melb Uni players in the AFLW (including Ellie Blackburn) who did not join North.

Whilst I accept that there may be other minor factors, the overwhelming factor in all these cases is $$$.

I will continue to support our AFLW team and attend matches when I can but the system is rooted.

Yep true, sorry I didn't word it correctly. Money is a huge factor it's just not the only reason. We also have to remember that this is going to be less of an issue as the seasons go on and that short term frustration shouldn't be the be all end all.

I 100% agree the system is currently ****** with teams not playing each other once, game length, rules and of course the current player agreements.

Personally the excitement for me is watching the game grow and seeing how it improves each and every year and even with all the flaws it's still exciting to see a new side to Australian football grow.

Getting back on topic here is how Champion Data ranked our 2020 list...



Lamb and Rennie have skyrocketed to the top 5 and Morris-Dalton looked very impressive in her only game and hopefully can take over from where McCarthy left off.

 

[dogwatch]

Nothing wrong with the ASAs, they are only uncapped for the top two players at each club. Employment Agreements, on the other hand, do have the potential to create an uneven competition. But clearly that hasn't happened yet, considering the poor performance of many of the league's richest clubs.

If a "proper salary cap system" was applied, there would be even less chance for a team to hold on to all of Blackburn, Kearney, Conti and Brennan in a 14-team league.

I haven't followed the systems and controls they've been putting in so I haven't heard of some of these things and don't know how it all works.

Are you saying it's legit for our top two players to be picked off each year? And we should just wear it?
And that's BEFORE the effect of the employment agreements come in?

 

[dogwatch]

Yep true, sorry I didn't word it correctly. Money is a huge factor it's just not the only reason. We also have to remember that this is going to be less of an issue as the seasons go on and that short term frustration shouldn't be the be all end all.

I 100% agree the system is currently ****** with teams not playing each other once, game length, rules and of course the current player agreements.

Personally the excitement for me is watching the game grow and seeing how it improves each and every year and even with all the flaws it's still exciting to see a new side to Australian football grow.

Getting back on topic here is how Champion Data ranked our 2020 list...

View attachment 927469

Lamb and Rennie have skyrocketed to the top 5 and Morris-Dalton looked very impressive in her only game and hopefully can take over from where McCarthy left off.

That's nice to know but as I said, McCarthy was the player I most enjoyed watching, partly for her flair and partly for the thrill of seeing an athletically gifted novice to the game develop into a star before our eyes. It was a similar thing with Conti before her.

We watch for the enjoyment and the emotional connection, not for the CD ratings.

I'll get over it but right now I'm really pissed off.

 

[Oliver G]

That's nice to know but as I said, McCarthy was the player I most enjoyed watching, partly for her flair and partly for the thrill of seeing an athletically gifted novice to the game develop into a star before our eyes. It was a similar thing with Conti before her.

I know (god knows what I'd do if Macrae ever leaves us) I really loved watching Conti and McCarthy too. The silver lining is that it won't go on like this forever and even this season will only likely lose 2 players but I totally understand the emotional connection.

The most frustrating aspect for me is the fact that we don't play everyone once, it makes my blood boil.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Are you saying it's legit for our top two players to be picked off each year? And we should just wear it?

No? The ASA clause says the top two players at each club can be paid an unlimited amount "as a direct result of bona fide promotions/marketing". Personally don't see an issue with that while the salary cap doesn't allow for full-time wages.

 

[dogwatch]

No? The ASA clause says the top two players at each club can be paid an unlimited amount "as a direct result of bona fide promotions/marketing". Personally don't see an issue with that while the salary cap doesn't allow for full-time wages.

OK that's worse for us. It means theoretically every other club can work down our list picking off players.

I know there's an argument to be made from the players' freedom of employment rights and making a few bucks while they can but that's a whole separate argument that continues to bedevil a lot of sports (including men's AFL). As a supporter of my footy club that's not my immediate concern.

If the AFL wants fans to engage with the AFLW they have to do more.

 

[Teen Wolf]

It means theoretically every other club can work down our list picking off players.

If you have the league's 28 best players on your list, then yeah, expect to lose 26 of them. Now every club has two each. Seems fair to me.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

If you have the league's 28 best players on your list, then yeah, expect to lose 26 of them. Now every club has two each. Seems fair to me.

Until you get raided every year, than you might change your tune. The Bulldogs have developed these players and got them to this stage only for other clubs to take them.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Until you get raided every year, than you might change your tune. The Bulldogs have developed these players and got them to this stage only for other clubs to take them.

If my club gets raided, it'll be because of the Employment Agreement rules, for which I already expressed a distaste just a few posts ago.^^^

 

[Prince Imperial]

If my club gets raided, it'll be because of the Employment Agreement rules, for which I already expressed a distaste just a few posts ago.^^^

Don't be so sure, especially in this very tough post-COVID environment that the much richer clubs (including future expansion teams Hawthorn and Essendon) won't use their much bigger sponsorship bases to poach your two best players.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Don't be so sure, especially in this very tough post-COVID environment that the much richer clubs (including future expansion teams Hawthorn and Essendon) won't use their much bigger sponsorship bases to poach your two best players.

I am sure though. The current ASA rules allow the best 28 (or 36 in an 18-team league) players to be spread out evenly. The current Employment Agreement rules, however, have the potential to heavily favour rich clubs and render the ASA rules meaningless. Simple as that.

 

[Prince Imperial]

I am sure though. The current ASA rules allow the best 28 (or 36 in an 18-team league) players to be spread out evenly. The current Employment Agreement rules, however, have the potential to heavily favour rich clubs and render the ASA rules meaningless. Simple as that.

There is a very real risk of substantial inequality within that 28 (or 36) though. The advantage of having two top 10 players on your list rather than two players around the 20-36 mark is significant.

I am in favour of paying the AFLW players overall as a group as much as can be afforded. I just think it is imperative that there is a level playing field as much as possible between the clubs.

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

AFLW - waste of time following it. Well, at least for the next 10-15 years. Avoid it and support your local women’s team.