Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Mutt]

1. Collingwood have a contract with Treloar for 4.5m over 5 years (it’s the widely quoted number so let’s agree this is correct).

2. All the articles and journo tweets during and after trade period have said Treloar will get his full amount regardless of where it comes from.

3. You are arguing that we definitively, 100% have a contract with Treloar for $600k per year (I don’t think this has been reported anywhere)

Points 1 and 2 are the only things with any clarity in this whole saga.
If point 3 were true, then there is no dispute anywhere. He will get the remainder of his cash from Collingwood. The fact that there is a dispute means that point 3 isn’t fact

Treloar's agent says we have agreed to $600k per annum - he seems just as adamant as we are about this. There is an agreement between us and Treloar even if a contract hasn't been signed yet. I'll bet that his agent signed the contract on trade day - he would have power of attorney to do that on behalf of Treloar. Either way, Treloar will be able to hold us to the agreement, as we will be able to hold him to it. This is Collingwood trying one over us. Look at Eddie's rationale for entering negotiations....we owe them from 1989 ffs!

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Imagine if Crows bid on him at pick 1 and then we passed and they were stuck with him! Hahahahhaha. They'd be absolutely fuming I reckon.

I reckon that the 4D chess master Sam Powers is working on such a high plane of list management understanding that he may be about to perpetrate a classic bait and switch on the entire competition. Our attention is obviously on Scott Claytoneque smokey hbf that nobody has ever heard off, thus we have deviously been feeding the media with patently absurd stories comparing JUH with Buddy over the past 12 months to throw everybody of the scent.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Treloar's agent says we have agreed to $600k per annum - he seems just as adamant as we are about this. There is an agreement between us and Treloar even if a contract hasn't been signed yet. I'll bet that his agent signed the contract on trade day - he would have power of attorney to do that on behalf of Treloar. Either way, Treloar will be able to hold us to the agreement, as we will be able to hold him to it. This is Collingwood trying one over us. Look at Eddie's rationale for entering negotiations....we owe them from 1989 ffs!

Do you mind pointing me in the direction of the comments from his manager - I don’t think he’s publicly spoken.

To go back to your original point, there is a dispute between us and Collingwood, which you’ve acknowledged on this post “Collingwood trying one over on us”.

You bet that a contract has been signed and you reckon it would be by his manager. There is a lot of assumptions to base your opinion on.

the whole saga is based on at least 2 (probably 3 and possibly 4) parties stuffing up. I wouldn’t be assuming anything as fact

 

[SayerTheCreator]

So, as I understand it (and apologies, I’m not too across all this off-season stuff),

we have delisted/traded/had retire 10 players

we have had 3 players come onto our list

if we use a tonne of picks to get JUH and bring in say 2-3 players from the draft, where is the other 4-5 players going to come from? Or are list sizes changing?

 

[ScragCity]

So, as I understand it (and apologies, I’m not too across all this off-season stuff),

we have delisted/traded/had retire 10 players

we have had 3 players come onto our list

if we use a tonne of picks to get JUH and bring in say 2-3 players from the draft, where is the other 4-5 players going to come from? Or are list sizes changing?

We can choose to go into next season with as few as 37 senior listed players

 

[dogwatch]

So, as I understand it (and apologies, I’m not too across all this off-season stuff),

we have delisted/traded/had retire 10 players

we have had 3 players come onto our list

if we use a tonne of picks to get JUH and bring in say 2-3 players from the draft, where is the other 4-5 players going to come from? Or are list sizes changing?

List sizes have been reduced slightly but there's more flexibility in using rookie slots.
So we won't bring in 7 new players but could bring in 5 or so. That will probably include Roarke Smith

37

Roarke Smith

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

5.6

2star

HB

6.1

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.4

2star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

and maybe Cavarra or Hayes too if our "smoky" prospects have been taken by then.

 

[wian]

So do you think the Dogs just did a pick swap to cover a potential bid because it may happen ?

Im Not sure what Adelaide intend to do - I just think it would be bad to pick a player that will never arrive at their club - Good PR would be to pick the player they will be gurenteed to get, then let that player get the bonus money, all the attention and accolades etc..

 

[Hobdog]

I’m going with the tried and true method for reading a situation. AT is still liking dogs social media posts therefore I can confidently ascertain that the dogs are in the right and Collingwood have stuffed up.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[doggies ftw]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on where we play JJ & Richards next season, I’d hope we decide on this early in the preseason and stick to it.

For mine JJ needs to play high half forward, he’s shown to be one of our best finishers inside 60 from the limited number of opportunities he gets, it remains to be seen but if he could keep that finishing efficiency with the much larger amount of looks he would get when playing permanently forward he could be a real weapon. He brings pace to the front half, he’s not a defensive tackling machine by any means but his pace defensively could be very good for us. Both in shutting down options for the oppo trying to exit but also the inferred pressure, it’ll take one bloke getting ran down by JJ before players start to think twice knowing they’ve got someone with his pace behind them.

I also think while he’s prone to turn overs coming out of defence he’s one of our best at delivering the ball inside 50. Not sure why that is maybe because usually you’re running at full tilt out of defence whereas you get the chance to slow down and assess your options coming into the forward line. Also it helps hide him from getting tagged out of the game. Yes he’ll have a defender playing direct on him but I feel it’d be harder for him being negated in the backline. You’ve got to physically go and get your own ball in the backline, not easy when someone’s job is to stop you doing that. Whereas in the forward line we’re trying to feed him the ball, he just has to get into space, easy when you’ve got the wheels he has. Plus you only need to get two good looks at goal before you’ve got 2goals on your opponent and you’re winning the battle and they have to change their approach, unlike the backline where it goes the other way.

Richards I see two options for, either deep pressure forward or HB. I don’t think he has the tank or smarts to play high forward. Just doesn’t seem to get near it, but I think he could be effective if we sat him at the feet of our talls inside 50. He’s shown he can kick a goal out of nothing, good at ground level, good in the air, strong tackler and elite speed. Could be an option.

I love a backline with Croz, Williams & Daniel but it’s lacking a bit of run with JJ moved out so I’d be moving Richards back to HB. He’s shown he can play it, I think he plays better there because i don’t believe he’s got a particularly great footy brain. I think making the game as simple as possible for him is the way to get the best out of him.

He’s very strong defensively and doesn’t lose many contests at ground level or in the air, just let him watch the game from behind the ball and let him try and run and hopefully dispose of the ball under less pressure than he would be further up the ground. His composure and skills under pressure are lacking so you hide this a bit at HB.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Hopefully that means Crows & North will just leave him alone. I’d think we’d all take a bid at pick 3.

Why would they bid when they know they won’t get him?

 

[BrisDog]

Why would they bid when they know they won’t get him?

To make sure we pay a fair price

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on where we play JJ & Richards next season, I’d hope we decide on this early in the preseason and stick to it.

For mine JJ needs to play high half forward, he’s shown to be one of our best finishers inside 60 from the limited number of opportunities he gets, it remains to be seen but if he could keep that finishing efficiency with the much larger amount of looks he would get when playing permanently forward he could be a real weapon. He brings pace to the front half, he’s not a defensive tackling machine by any means but his pace defensively could be very good for us. Both in shutting down options for the oppo trying to exit but also the inferred pressure, it’ll take one bloke getting ran down by JJ before players start to think twice knowing they’ve got someone with his pace behind them.

I also think while he’s prone to turn overs coming out of defence he’s one of our best at delivering the ball inside 50. Not sure why that is maybe because usually you’re running at full tilt out of defence whereas you get the chance to slow down and assess your options coming into the forward line. Also it helps hide him from getting tagged out of the game. Yes he’ll have a defender playing direct on him but I feel it’d be harder for him being negated in the backline. You’ve got to physically go and get your own ball in the backline, not easy when someone’s job is to stop you doing that. Whereas in the forward line we’re trying to feed him the ball, he just has to get into space, easy when you’ve got the wheels he has. Plus you only need to get two good looks at goal before you’ve got 2goals on your opponent and you’re winning the battle and they have to change their approach, unlike the backline where it goes the other way.

Richards I see two options for, either deep pressure forward or HB. I don’t think he has the tank or smarts to play high forward. Just doesn’t seem to get near it, but I think he could be effective if we sat him at the feet of our talls inside 50. He’s shown he can kick a goal out of nothing, good at ground level, good in the air, strong tackler and elite speed. Could be an option.

I love a backline with Croz, Williams & Daniel but it’s lacking a bit of run with JJ moved out so I’d be moving Richards back to HB. He’s shown he can play it, I think he plays better there because i don’t believe he’s got a particularly great footy brain. I think making the game as simple as possible for him is the way to get the best out of him.

He’s very strong defensively and doesn’t lose many contests at ground level or in the air, just let him watch the game from behind the ball and let him try and run and hopefully dispose of the ball under less pressure than he would be further up the ground. His composure and skills under pressure are lacking so you hide this a bit at HB.

I agree with you on JJ. Needs to be a forward half player going forward, and with his speed and experience he'll give us a nice boost. We have 3 players who are good at defending and attacking (Crozier, Williams, and Duryea). There's room for one distributor who doesn't excell at defending but that's covered by our AA half back Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

27

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

. We can't seem to get JJ back into the player he was a few years ago so time to remake him.

But for those reasons I don't see Richards playing at half back. I don't see him above any of the 4 mentioned. Wood will still be in the side for at least another year, and then we need 2 KPDs on top of those. A 7 man defence is our usual MO. I also don't seem him above any of JJ, Hannan or Vandermeer for that forward half spot. So I'm putting him as depth. He's shown potential but that's only amounted in less than a dozen games in 3 years I'd call 'good' (not just 'good for a young player') and most of those were in his first season. I'm far from writing him off but if I'm picking the side I think is most capable of winning I'd go with more consistent players and let the others develop. What position he'll play depth in is interesting. We've been short on forwards for a while but with Suckling, Lynch, and La Young out we're suddenly not as ridicuously overstocked on half backs as we used to be. That could go either way but I'm leaning towards sending him back to defence, a good opportunity to relearn the position in the VFL.

 

[Mattdougie]

To make sure we pay a fair price

You don’t take someone else you know you can’t get with pick one mate

Sends an average message to the player you get.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

It has probably mean stated before but a big portion of of the 1.5m belongs to previous years. So if you deduct this pies are paying nowhere $1.5 m just pay up D???heads.

 

[Mutt]

Do you mind pointing me in the direction of the comments from his manager - I don’t think he’s publicly spoken.

To go back to your original point, there is a dispute between us and Collingwood, which you’ve acknowledged on this post “Collingwood trying one over on us”.

You bet that a contract has been signed and you reckon it would be by his manager. There is a lot of assumptions to base your opinion on.

the whole saga is based on at least 2 (probably 3 and possibly 4) parties stuffing up. I wouldn’t be assuming anything as fact

I think it was Sam Edmund who reported Treloar's agent confirmed the Bulldog's position. Google is your friend mate....

Happy for you to disagree with me.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I think it was Sam Edmund who reported Treloar's agent confirmed the Bulldog's position. Google is your friend mate....

Happy for you to disagree with me.

Nothing direct from the manager but Edmund alluded to the agent being witness/hearing/understanding the agreement as the club has.

 

[Bro_Pro]

Strange that the pies haven’t came out over the past few days with any comments about the trade. This is more reason to why I think we are in the right as we’re not that kind of club and don’t come out and bash another club like the pies and bombers do!!

For AT and his state of mind I hope this gets sorted soon so he can move of from that s**t club. He will have his best season next year, seems to be training most day on insta but in saying that a lot of the boys do which is a good sign!!

 

[House_of_Dahl]

We've been incredibly lucky/ well managed this trade and draft period. Worse case now we have enough points for Marra at 1 (with next year's 1st untouched and Treloar). That's incredible. But best case now (and possible) is a later bid on Marra then we live trade our three later picks for something around 30 too!

 

[glenashley]

Given our pick swaps and move to gain points, I'd bet my grandma on us bidding on JUH wherever he's selected.

 

[dogwatch]

Here's the revised table. If you need a full explanation of how to read it and why the later picks jump around a bit, go to the Jamarra thread.



tl;dr - we're all good!

EDIT: TBOW has picked up a small error: The table should show that we could match pick 50 (not 64) under scenario 1 and pick 26 (not 28) in scenario 2.

 

[weltschmerz]

The midseason draft is back next year. Maybe we'll have an open list spot, maybe we'll have McLean on the long term injury list.

 

[D Mitchell]

You seem to have solved the whole problem Yojimbo on a doodle pad in your spare time, no Yojimbo i saw it on an episode of the Bill or Peaky Blinders which are both shows that deal in hearty AFL values of truth, honesty and wholesome goodness.

I'd piss that Yojimbo off if I was you, Yojimbo, he/she's starting to get inside your head.

 

[BrisDog]

You don’t take someone else you know you can’t get with pick one mate

Sends an average message to the player you get.

We were talking about Sydney taking JUH at 3.

Similarly we took Dunks in 2015 when Sydney had rights to him at their next pick. I have no doubt Sydney have this in the back of their mind when they select JUH at pick no. 3.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

You don’t take someone else you know you can’t get with pick one mate

Sends an average message to the player you get.

Yep and also hits them directly in the hip pocket. By taking another player first they will directly provide JUH a contractual bonus outside the cap from the AFL while simultaneously stripping it from their own player.

 

[Guido]

The midseason draft is back next year. Maybe we'll have an open list spot, maybe we'll have McLean on the long term injury list.

Would we possibly go in a list spot short in 2021 and have 2 picks (1 being a long term injury top-up for McLean)?

If history is any guide, there'd be up to 15-20 later developing kids who would have went top 50 this year that won't get picked up because they didn't get the chance to show their upside.

Depending on how many later developers there are and how they perform in the first 10-12 weeks of the season, next year's mid season draft could effectively be full of a normal draft's 1st and 2nd rounders.