Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[SquiffyRae]

The surgery comment - I've always felt that was BS.

The surgery comment betrays more info than Mr B would like. He claims BvE invited him to go with Mr R and perform surgery on Alan Barnes. Unless I missed something major, Alan was drugged, beaten, tortured, had objects inserted up him but was left in one piece before he was thrown over the bridge at South Para. There's no surgery involved.

But Neil Muir was cut up. Peter Stogneff was cut up. Mark Langley had part of his intestine removed.

At the time of Alan's murder, The Family had not operated on anyone as far as we know (and I'd assume living victims would've said something by now if some sickos had drugged them and removed an organ). So why would BvE invite Mr B to do something that up till now he had never done and never actually did with Alan? Poor Mr B's getting his wires crossed trying to find ways to throw everyone else in it while not implicating himself

 

[SquiffyRae]

Also am I going crazy or in Frozen Lies was there a story of how after his arrest, David Szach allegedly told someone there was a guy with information who would come forward and save him and said his name was Alan Barnes?

From what JB has told us, I don't believe Alan was involved in shady stuff and am highly doubtful he was the blonde guy at legal aid the day after Stevenson's murder. However the timing of his murder and the circumstances (staying the night with a guy potentially implicated in the cover up who left Alan alone once he got to Grand Junction Rd) are really stretching the realms of coincidence.

Is it possible Darko put Alan's name forth as a naive guy to take the fall for Szach? You're staging a crime scene already and everyone's probably panicking. Darko has the perfect solution. Szach and Gambardella are originally agreeable. They potentially even send a young guy they know or even a young TV in a blonde wig to legal aid to be seen as "Alan" and deliver those suspicious lines to make it sound as if Alan knew about the murder before the body was discovered. Witnesses would then testify Alan Barnes came in to legal aid and made those comments - case closed, Alan takes the blame.

But maybe Darko was a bit of a blabbermouth who told Alan, a young guy reaching the age where he might start exploring adult things, about some of the darker sides of Adelaide's gay party scene including that a certain accountant knows how to score date rape drugs should he need them. Suddenly Darko/Gambardella etc. realise that if Alan's so much as wrongfully arrested he could blow the Family thing sky high, which means more investigations which means everyone goes down for various things.

BvE also finds out. The Stevenson thing isn't related but the police snooping combined with Derrance S's drug dealing is a little close to home. Alan doesn't know it but a casual throwaway conversation means he has knowledge of one of Adelaide's worst secrets. BvE is furious and puts pay to the Alan as David's patsy plan. What's more, he doesn't want Alan talking. But he also sees this as an opportunity to indulge in his sick fantasies again. So he demands Darko set Alan up to be the Family's next victim only this time they're not letting their captive go.

Darko sets Alan up, BvE and crew kidnap him and take him wherever. The beating and torture isn't just for fun, BvE wants Alan to suffer like the other victims in the past but also wants to know just how much he knows and if he's talked. That's why he's held for much longer than any of the previous rape victims. It's getting information and letting BvE get his jollies while they're at it.

Completely crazy, out there, late night theory but it's the best I can come up with to fit together some of the weirder pieces of this mystery

 

[SquiffyRae]

As a further theory, where does Mr B come in?

Mr B gets roped in as he has been many times before to be the woman in BvE's "party with hot girls" story for Alan's abduction. He assumes it's just like all the other times. Initially it is. The usual assault happens, he maybe even gets allowed to be involved. But as time goes on it changes. BvE is quite obviously going off the rails and eventually Alan dies and Mr B realises the game's changed. BvE, Mr R, Mr B and maybe others dispose of Alan's body. BvE isn't worried. This crew aren't gonna implicate themselves and Darko can't snitch on them without running the risk of BvE telling what he knows about Stevenson. It's mutually assured destruction using dark secrets. But there's one flaw in his plan - Mr B.

Mr B has just seen BvE take great pleasure in torturing and murdering a 16 year old, possibly (if my theory is right) just cause he knew of the Family. But Mr B is part of the Family. What if BvE decides he knows too much? He decides BvE has to be locked away so he calls in the tip knowing he can fabricate a story of how he knows the details without being involved himself. But he's young himself and doesn't realise BvE won't be arrested on the spot. And he isn't.

So now BvE is furious. He knows someone went to the cops. And Mr B just saw what BvE does to snitches. Mustering all his courage he faces BvE and manages to put in a convincing enough performance that BvE doesn't suspect he's the snitch. At a later point he ensures that Neil Muir's name is put out there. Muir's a believeable snitch. It's probably an open secret among even fringe members of the Family that BvE and co killed Alan Barnes. But none of them would go to the cops and drop themselves in it. But someone loosely connected through drug culture like Neil Muir might hear stuff at parties and dob them in. Muir happened to fit the bill and a bit of convincing lying means he becomes murder number 2.

The extreme violence and over the top dismemberment coupled with BvE's signature object up the backside is not only revenge for talking but sending a statement to the rest of the community. When Neil's CoD is revealed in newspapers, no one but the community would be able to recognise it as BvE. But no one talks this time. BvE just made it abundantly clear if he suspects you of talking he will not hesitate to shut you up.

 

[Gayspie2020]

This is a very interesting thread to follow.

In summary, which key family murder suspects and convicts are still alive today?

 

[JezMez]

This is a very interesting thread to follow.

In summary, which key family murder suspects and convicts are still alive today?

Key Suspects

Mr R - still runs his small niche business in Hyde Park
Dr Stephen George Woodards - Runs a physio in Maroubra, Sydney
Mr B - believed to be living in Sydney working as a delivery driver

Associates

Lewis Turtur - Living in Sydney

Fringe Players

Dario Kastellan - working as a tiler
Clocker - unsure but still allegedly in Adelaide

 

[Gayspie2020]

Does anyone know what the old drag queens got up to with their lives after the family case died down in the media but before they died in the 2000's and 2010's?

 

[JezMez]

Proof? Is there any?

That they were Mummies boys who lived at home - yes
That DSD was BVE's oldest friend - it says so in Young Blood. They went long back.

That BVE and DSD rented places - Trevor Peters' diary, based on conversation with his neighbour/s (either Novak, Firman, or both), claimed they did. The ebook, while I think many are unsure of it's accuracy claims at different times they held a unit in Lambert St Joslin, and another one on another occasion in Tennyson St Medindie.

Countering that;

Police consider Mr R, Mr B, and SGW as the main suspects. If BVE and DSD rented a unit, then why is DSD not in this group? If Alan Barnes was taken to the shared unit, then why didn't BVE call in DSD as well (rather than just Mr R)?

Furthermore, BVE was picking up and raping dudes with Mr B. He'd bring in Mr R. RDB and SGW were also allegedly raping dudes. But no mention of DSD. So why is DSD sharing the cost of a rental with BVE? What was in it for him?

From all my reading, there hasn't been one mention of Richard Kelvin's cut hair being found. Why? But BVEs cut hair was.

Because they never identified where he was kept for those 5 weeks.

Yeah I can see that but not in circumstances of the celebrity newsreaders son tied to a kitchen chair after being taken from the street.

What I think may have happened is BVEs defence has latched onto the fact that Richard's hair didn't grow and they used it. "He was obviously fine in the weeks he was missing because he had a haircut! Probably when he was seen in the Rundle Mall!" The prosecution hoped they wouldn't notice it.

But the jury doesn't care. They're swayed by the fibre evidence and the tox reports that match up to what was found at BVE's house.

I don't remember the specifics around the haircut, but I don't think it was the defence bringing it up. I think it was more an observation by police and forensics as part of the investigation.

 

[JezMez]

The surgery comment betrays more info than Mr B would like. He claims BvE invited him to go with Mr R and perform surgery on Alan Barnes. Unless I missed something major, Alan was drugged, beaten, tortured, had objects inserted up him but was left in one piece before he was thrown over the bridge at South Para. There's no surgery involved.

But Neil Muir was cut up. Peter Stogneff was cut up. Mark Langley had part of his intestine removed.

At the time of Alan's murder, The Family had not operated on anyone as far as we know (and I'd assume living victims would've said something by now if some sickos had drugged them and removed an organ). So why would BvE invite Mr B to do something that up till now he had never done and never actually did with Alan? Poor Mr B's getting his wires crossed trying to find ways to throw everyone else in it while not implicating himself

Police believe he was involved but had a habit of throwing everyone else in and conveniently claiming he wasn't involved.

He's clearly a liar, but it's unlikely he fabricated the main gist of the story. His lies were based around him relieving himself of any involvement.

In 1983/4 he put BVE up but never mentioned Mr R. He only mentioned Mr R in 1990/1. His claim was that he was scared of Mr R. I think it's a simple case he only wanted to tell police enough for them to go and catch BVE while avoiding being charged himself. He drip fed info to suit his own needs.

 

[JezMez]

Does anyone know what the old drag queens got up to with their lives after the family case died down in the media but before they died in the 2000's and 2010's?

It's mostly unknown.

Gant went to Perth to be an escort.
Turtur went to Sydney. He's still there. He's heavily involved in this social group: http://magsydney.org/about.php?id=3
Firman and Novak lived in Shipsters Rd. Firman lapsed into heroin addiction and got busted dealing.

That's about all I know.

 

[Bits]

Clocker - unsure but still allegedly in Adelaide

The ebook has him as living in South East Asia with a much younger partner I think.

 

[EvansHodges77]

Wasn't it no reference to Mr R?
Yes, he drip fed, told lies, and then told giant big whoppers (Beaumonts etc)
The surgery comment - I've always felt that was BS.

But there's reasonable explanations.

re suppressed Yatala visitor = how do you know this happened?

I have read it in the police surveillance documents before...I will find it again..it’s a real thing.


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[Bits]

I have read it in the police surveillance documents before...I will find it again..it’s a real thing.


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Is it possibly Nurse Jackie? Her full name has never been disclosed. The ebook calls her JL and says she down-played what BvE was doing and stuck by him for many years. She was questioned extensively about Richard Kelvin and was thought to have been in the car when he was taken. Mr B lived with her at some point.

 

[EvansHodges77]

Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide’s gay-hate murders

For decades, gay bashers operated with impunity. Sometimes, they killed their victims. The police often didn't care. Sometimes, they were said to be doing the bashing. A culture of indifference meant the bodies piled up as the world looked the other way. Mark Whittaker reports from Adelaide's...

www.sbs.com.au

Some interesting reading here, this should solidify any doubts regarding a higher echelon of players...maybe this could be a lead on who clocker is/was....interesting read but chapter 5 has a real significance.


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[Sinatra1915]

Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide’s gay-hate murders

For decades, gay bashers operated with impunity. Sometimes, they killed their victims. The police often didn't care. Sometimes, they were said to be doing the bashing. A culture of indifference meant the bodies piled up as the world looked the other way. Mark Whittaker reports from Adelaide's...

www.sbs.com.au

Some interesting reading here, this should solidify any doubts regarding a higher echelon of players...maybe this could be a lead on who clocker is/was....interesting read but chapter 5 has a real significance.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yes,I have read this article...Great read..Will be interesting to see any leads as to who "Clocker" is.All I know is that he was a long time employee and plaything of Mr R, he is now aged in his mid fifties and resides in South East Asia (suprise) with a younger lover..It appears Mr R has a new young lover too..Anybody seen Mr R or pics of him or know anything of his new piece of ass?

 

[Kurve]

I have read it in the police surveillance documents before...I will find it again..it’s a real thing.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

From the visitors log when he was in remand?

 

[JezMez]

Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide’s gay-hate murders

For decades, gay bashers operated with impunity. Sometimes, they killed their victims. The police often didn't care. Sometimes, they were said to be doing the bashing. A culture of indifference meant the bodies piled up as the world looked the other way. Mark Whittaker reports from Adelaide's...

www.sbs.com.au

Some interesting reading here, this should solidify any doubts regarding a higher echelon of players...maybe this could be a lead on who clocker is/was....interesting read but chapter 5 has a real significance.

It has next to no significance.




2002 - Kym Pitcher - gay bashed in Veale Gardens. Two teenagers charged
2002 - Mark Coonie - gay bashed to death
2004 - Robert Woodland - bashed to death at Veale Gardens. Some "pedo in high places" hunters claim he was going to expose some high profile people. But there is zero evidence of this.
2005 - Shaine Moore - another rent boy who wanted to make claims about high profile people. Found dead.
2005 - Media frenzy re rent boys being murdered to shut them up
2005 - Walter Handley - another rent boy going to name names. Murdered.
2005 - Steve Williams - former head of Gypsy Jokers was going to provide evidence how pedos were getting away with it. Disappeared.
2007 - ended up Shaine Moore was murdered by his BF at the time
2007 - ended up Handley was murdered in a robbery


So, we are left with;

- One guy (Woodland) murdered at Veale Gardens. The person who claimed he was murdered because he made statements to him re pedophilia, can't produce them.

- Another man (Williams), with claims but no evidence he was going to talk, went missing. He was a former hea of the Gypsy Jokers.


The guy making the claims is a campaigner. He wants to believe all this stuff happened, and he's using it for political gain.

Brad Shannon? WTF? He's a street kid who sold his ass. He claims these high profile people are to blame for his life, but he offered his arse to them for money. While anyone having sex with underager rent boys is wrong, Mr Shannon needs to take responsibility for his actions.


All I'm seeing is;

A bunch of kids with not much chance in life. They end up selling their arses. Some of their clients are well known politicians. These aren't 12 year old kids being exploited by Uncle Barry at the family get together. These are street kids, just below the age of consent, making a decision to swap sex for money.

Are there attempts at a cover up? Probably. Could have some of these people been murdered to keep them quiet? Possibly. This stuff happens in every major city in the world.

Is there one giant conspiracy that links this to The Family and shows that there were higher ups controlling the Family and BVE was just a delivery boy? No - not under any circumstances.

 

[Sinatra1915]

Does anyone know what the old drag queens got up to with their lives after the family case died down in the media but before they died in the 2000's and 2010's?

It would be interesting to see pics of these drag queens..Apparently they were well known in the gay scene in Adelaide and Sydney..Some pics must exist from their times at the gay clubs???

 

[Kurve]

It would be interesting to see pics of these drag queens..Apparently they were well known in the gay scene in Adelaide and Sydney..Some pics must exist from their times at the gay clubs???

I have what I suspect might be a fairly rare collection of books on this subject, going way back to the 70s. Most of the pics are in black and white, I'll drag them out no pun intended and have a look. Just have to remember where I put them.

 

[Sinatra1915]

I have what I suspect might be a fairly rare collection of books on this subject, going way back to the 70s. Most of the pics are in black and white, I'll drag them out no pun intended and have a look. Just have to remember where I put them.

Ha ha ha..Thanks Kurve..Its always interesting for the readers to put faces to the names.Thanks again.

 

[John Barnes]

Also am I going crazy or in Frozen Lies was there a story of how after his arrest, David Szach allegedly told someone there was a guy with information who would come forward and save him and said his name was Alan Barnes?

From what JB has told us, I don't believe Alan was involved in shady stuff and am highly doubtful he was the blonde guy at legal aid the day after Stevenson's murder. However the timing of his murder and the circumstances (staying the night with a guy potentially implicated in the cover up who left Alan alone once he got to Grand Junction Rd) are really stretching the realms of coincidence.

Is it possible Darko put Alan's name forth as a naive guy to take the fall for Szach? You're staging a crime scene already and everyone's probably panicking. Darko has the perfect solution. Szach and Gambardella are originally agreeable. They potentially even send a young guy they know or even a young TV in a blonde wig to legal aid to be seen as "Alan" and deliver those suspicious lines to make it sound as if Alan knew about the murder before the body was discovered. Witnesses would then testify Alan Barnes came in to legal aid and made those comments - case closed, Alan takes the blame.

But maybe Darko was a bit of a blabbermouth who told Alan, a young guy reaching the age where he might start exploring adult things, about some of the darker sides of Adelaide's gay party scene including that a certain accountant knows how to score date rape drugs should he need them. Suddenly Darko/Gambardella etc. realise that if Alan's so much as wrongfully arrested he could blow the Family thing sky high, which means more investigations which means everyone goes down for various things.

BvE also finds out. The Stevenson thing isn't related but the police snooping combined with Derrance S's drug dealing is a little close to home. Alan doesn't know it but a casual throwaway conversation means he has knowledge of one of Adelaide's worst secrets. BvE is furious and puts pay to the Alan as David's patsy plan. What's more, he doesn't want Alan talking. But he also sees this as an opportunity to indulge in his sick fantasies again. So he demands Darko set Alan up to be the Family's next victim only this time they're not letting their captive go.

Darko sets Alan up, BvE and crew kidnap him and take him wherever. The beating and torture isn't just for fun, BvE wants Alan to suffer like the other victims in the past but also wants to know just how much he knows and if he's talked. That's why he's held for much longer than any of the previous rape victims. It's getting information and letting BvE get his jollies while they're at it.

Completely crazy, out there, late night theory but it's the best I can come up with to fit together some of the weirder pieces of this mystery

The 3 weekends before Alan disappeared and died he was home so he couldn’t have ever been at Stevenson house . The reason why I know this is because he meet 3 others and myself at hunger jacks Rundle mull and took me home . In fact Alan didn’t go out much after he was charged with rape as it really got to him at that time . He went to the footy with preacher then meet me after the footy as I would go with Jeff wells to see west play and he would go with preacher to what ever game they felt like ( where the most girls were ) . The weekend at Darkos house was because preacher had a new girlfriend and Alan didn’t have anything to do that weekend . As far as darko setting Alan up same how well that is one I have been looking into myself . If Alan knew a thing about Stevenson preacher would have known too as they were always in each other’s pockets .
Ps : the reason why bve and co started killing is the same as asking why Ted bundy started killing, it’s always been there and everything moved towards it . I still think Alan after same time maybe on the day he went missing would have said “ I know who you are “ as if to say I am going to the cops .

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[Kurve]

The 3 weekends before Alan disappeared and died he was home so he couldn’t have ever been at Stevenson house . The reason why I know this is because he meet 3 others and myself at hunger jacks Rundle mull and took me home . In fact Alan didn’t go out much after he was charged with rape as it really got to him at that time . He went to the footy with preacher then meet me after the footy as I would go with Jeff wells to see west play and he would go with preacher to what ever game they felt like ( where the most girls were ) . The weekend at Darkos house was because preacher had a new girlfriend and Alan didn’t have anything to do that weekend . As far as darko setting Alan up same how well that is one I have been looking into myself . If Alan knew a thing about Stevenson preacher would have known too as they were always in each other’s pockets .


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It might have been Neil Muir in at legal aid. Obviously he was older than Alan but if the lady behind the desk was pushing sixty, she might have described Neil Muir as a young man.

 

[John Barnes]

How did you know about this?

ebook says they had one in Lambert Rd Joslin, and another one at Tenyson Rd Medindie (I wonder if this is the one "Dr Steve's" victim said he escaped from?

If BVE and DSD are sharing the rental cost on multiple properties over the years, why didn't more come out about DSD being a drug spike rapist?

But you're right - stuff escalated when Mr B came onto the scene. O'Brien quietly suspected he was a psychopath. Dobbing in co-perpetrators to pre-empt saving your own ass - classic sociopath move.



Alan also may have been an accident. BVE did like inserting things.

The alarming thing for me is the culture at the time. Some of BVE's work colleagues openly knew he was drugging and raping straight young men, often under age. So many in his wide circle knew what he was doing, some of them helped, and some got directly involved.

In the police reports dsd was named a lot and like I said I know more then the public as the cops same times slipped thing out and I seen same stuff they had that I was never should have seen. They believe Alan was killed at the highbury place according to one report but the owner after they left painted and put new carpet in . Most people see bve as a really nice person but the real thing that he is comes out when you have a young good looking boy in front of him . No fibres from anywhere this lot of things lived matched the fibres found on Alan the only place left was highbury . The cops never pushed people nor did they even questioned people around bve and as far as I am concerned they should have been charged for withholding evidence or information from police in a capital crime .


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[PenfoldsFan]

I find it hard to believe that a guy like BVE with his attraction to young boys wouldnt have realised the young hitch hiker was the same kid who frequented his workplace yet Alan who has no interest in men recognises BVE from those same workplace interactions.
Then throw in the coincidence that Alan just happened to have spent the previous night in the company of a known associate of this group.
In my opinion, you've got to want to believe it was that straight forward to overlook the glaring obvious.

 

[Kurve]

In the police reports dsd was named a lot and like I said I know more then the public as the cops same times slipped thing out and I seen same stuff they had that I was never should have seen. They believe Alan was killed at the highbury place according to one report but the owner after they left painted and put new carpet in .

Okay. One report also said they believe Richard was killed at Mr. R's but they couldn't match fibres because he reno'd some rooms? I saw that somewhere.

They (the cops) have to make some sort of suggestion to account for why they couldn't find a significant crime scene/s. I've noticed in most major crimes though if an answer to a big question can't be found, the majority of the time it's because it's sitting right under their noses. Staring at them.

 

[Kurve]

The alarming thing for me is the culture at the time. Some of BVE's work colleagues openly knew he was drugging and raping straight young men, often under age. So many in his wide circle knew what he was doing, some of them helped, and some got directly involved.

I think his business premises might have been a bit more involved than we've realised actually. BVE running backwards and forwards in and out of there all hours of the night, there's mention of him taking boys in there before after picking them up. I'll check on this before I confirm but I think he was caught in there having sex with a young boy after hours.

I'd like to know a bit more about who owned that business and I'd like to see a plan/map of the property. I'd also like to know how long the cops spent in there looking for evidence and if forensics went in.