Are you sure about that?
Many experts would argue the exact opposite actually. Especially when it comes to work ethic and other intangibles regarding mental health in preparation for the workforce.
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Private Schools
- Thread starter Deliverance
- Start date
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Are you sure about that?
Many experts would argue the exact opposite actually. Especially when it comes to work ethic and other intangibles regarding mental health in preparation for the workforce.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #252
Which is why the system needs changing.
From your arguments alone, you're taking out "the best" kids and putting them into private schools then wondering why public schools aren't setting the world on fire.
Myself, I think private schools are a damaging waste and a source of inequality in society.
- Thread starter
- #253
Which experts?
- Thread starter
- #255
Private school facilities are a waste of money because they are locked away for the use of a select few for most of the week. They aren't money well spent for the general population.
- Thread starter
- #257
LOL
- Half of the $22 billion spent on capital projects in Australian schools between 2013 and 2017 was spent in just 10 per cent of schools
- These schools are the country’s richest, ranked by average annual income from all sources (federal and state government funding, fees and other private funding) over the five-year period. They teach fewer than 30 per cent of students
- They also reaped 28 per cent (or $2.4 billion) of the $8.6 billion in capital spending funded by government.
Private schools reflect social inequality more than they cause it
As long as public schools are geographically segregated, and Australian society has geographical inequality, you will never have equality of public education - forcing private school kids into public schools as sacrificial lambs won't change that
If the public education system is fundamentally unequal, then I think we have a moral obligation to provide options for parents and children to escape it. Access to affordable private education is one of those options.
Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with supporting parents who want to spend extra money on giving their kids a better education.
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Now confirming you are including the Catholic secondary school system as "private".
No wonder you think Public schools have equivalent results to "Private" schools.
There's a whole host of catholic orders which provide subsidised education for millions of Australian kids.
If you think parents spending $3-$4k a year on an equivalent education to some private schools in the $20k+ per year is a problem, well you are picking the wrong target I think....
As for the statistics.
So let me get this straight, 10 percent of "private" schools are currently housing 30 percent of all students and receive 28 percent of all funding..... why the outrage?
- Thread starter
- #260
At least now you know your theory about their capital funding coming from fees is bullshit.
But the outrage is because they get more than their fair share. The share of public money they are pilfering is increasing. The extra money they get doesn't result in better educational outcomes. Many of these schools don't even need the public money to cover running costs. Extra funding for schools in disadvantaged areas does result in better educational outcomes.
Bullocks!
As an educator in what is deemed a "sh*t" area, you far from the truth. Most of the issues in this area stem from home life.
If parents don't value education and would rather blame schools, go for it. I had a parent tell me they don't see maths as important so wont force their kids to do it. Many don't want to do homework and believe home time should not involve school work.
Many also are families where English is another language.
Giving teachers more money won't fix anything. It won't also attract better candidates because you cant teach traits like sympathy and care.
Try putting a scientist into a special ed setting to improve science results while also supporting highly disabled students with feeding and changing nappies or dealing with a tier 3 behaviour cohort who can snap and knock you out when highly agitated..
Similar in a low socio economic and multicultural growth suburb where people can buy a house fresh off the boat.
Except it doesnt make a big difference. Yes they get more money from families but there is an expectation they (parents) see results. If I sent my kid to MLC or Wesley/Haylebury, you bet I want to see results as it's costing me my kidney.
There are plenty of public secondary schools that are out performing private schools.
It's comes down the mentality of parents and students. Parents who generally go private believe they get better results. To an extent they might get better access to reaources but that's it. The parents are also more likely to have a better ethos to education (see Tiger mums) as an example. I taught at a school in box hill and you can bet that there were kids who parents were drilling in work and wanted more to be sent home.
It also comes down to the students. I went to a boarding school as the only high school near where I grew up was an hour drive (I lived rural). Quite a few of my mates there ended up as tradies or work in entry level jobs like woolies.
As for my counter-claim, compare for yourself the current Victorian Catholic Education Multi-Enterprise Agreement Teacher Salaries with the current Victorian Government Schools Agreement Teacher Pay Rates.
If you want to get even more granular, you can even compare to the individual school EBA, and you still won't see any significant difference in teacher salaries between the private and public sector.
Think you’ve misunderstood my point
Disagree to an extent.
I went on a school tour of a private school who wanted me to look at their STEM and tech program to take ideas.
I left frustrated and envious. More so because 80% of resources were parent raised and accumulated over a couple of years. 3x3D printers, 1:1 ipad/laptop, plenty of Microbits, WeDo kits and ev3s ontop of tools for construction.
They had $150K starting out verse my $5k if that. Public schools don't have that luxury to get parents contributing and we didnt have the ability to offer a 1:1 device as we were poor socio-economic area.
Naturally my school aborted the program once I explained we needed to find more money to get furniture, devices and resources to fund it.
Agree. Very rarely do you hear about these teachers and they should get more. Nor do you hear a lot come NAPLAN about the public schools who out do private.
You missed the point of the article. It is not to compare ALL public schooling to ALL private schooling.
It is comparing the top results from both sectors to determine which sector provides a better ROI - given the relative level of student funding at each school. In contrast to the traditional neoliberal idiom, when it comes to schooling, the public sector is more efficient and cost effective than the private sector.
These schools can be accurately compared as they share many of the same variables which are uncommon in other public schools (and low socioeconomic catholic schools) such as:
- Selective entry
- Lower class sizes
- Middle to upper class educated parents
- Access to tutoring and other resources
This. The government talk about getting improved results, quick to slam teachers, but fail to look at one of the biggest impacts when comparing Australian education results..
They look at countries like Finland but don't see class sizes?! I mean cmon!
When they were #1 prior to 2008 (before recession) class sizes were around 10.
As a teacher, If I had a class of 10, I could easily differentiate and support my students need more than I could with 25 (dont get me started on co-teaching which many schools are looking at).
Also interesting to note:
- Finland focus on child centered approach and whole child development.
- shorter school days (to allow teachers adequate time to work on their programs)
- No compulsory standardised testing like NAPLAN (they trust their teacher judgement). Teachers can choose to opt in and the Government believe teachers know the students more than any test will give them
- Formal schooling doesnt start until 7yrs old.
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Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #271
In Australia we have about 1200 private schools.
In Germany, they have 2500.
Private schools are not vital. Australia is vastly over-served by private schools. And our state and federal governments have been captured by this industry.
www.michaelwest.com.au
The dire straits of public school funding today is the result of the war waged by successive Coalition governments against the Gonski funding plan to direct more government funding to those most in need.
Education Minister Alan Tudge has been an active participant in all stages of the war. He opposed the Gonski plan at the outset because it would “penalise” Catholic and Independent schools.
He and his colleagues are fulfilling what Tony Abbott called the Liberal Party’s “proud history of funding independent and Catholic schools” to “protect them” and ensure they “continue to flourish”.
Tudge has even claimed that we have “very good social mobility and social equity in our school system…” It is so far from the truth as to be ludicrous. The PISA 2018 results show a three-year learning gap between 15-year-old students from high and low socio-economic status (SES) families. Much higher proportions of high SES students complete Year 12 than low SES students.
...
The flagrant favouritism in funding private schools can only be described as outrageous and obscene. It makes it virtually impossible to reduce the achievement gap between the most disadvantaged and advantaged students
In Germany, they have 2500.
Private schools are not vital. Australia is vastly over-served by private schools. And our state and federal governments have been captured by this industry.
Disadvantage accelerates as private school funding rises six times public schools over the decade - Michael West
By 2029 public schools will be underfunded by $60 billion; private schools overfunded by $6 billion - with huge costs to society as a result
www.michaelwest.com.au
The dire straits of public school funding today is the result of the war waged by successive Coalition governments against the Gonski funding plan to direct more government funding to those most in need.
Education Minister Alan Tudge has been an active participant in all stages of the war. He opposed the Gonski plan at the outset because it would “penalise” Catholic and Independent schools.
He and his colleagues are fulfilling what Tony Abbott called the Liberal Party’s “proud history of funding independent and Catholic schools” to “protect them” and ensure they “continue to flourish”.
Tudge has even claimed that we have “very good social mobility and social equity in our school system…” It is so far from the truth as to be ludicrous. The PISA 2018 results show a three-year learning gap between 15-year-old students from high and low socio-economic status (SES) families. Much higher proportions of high SES students complete Year 12 than low SES students.
...
The flagrant favouritism in funding private schools can only be described as outrageous and obscene. It makes it virtually impossible to reduce the achievement gap between the most disadvantaged and advantaged students
I went to a private boys’ school in England (I also went to a Melbourne boys’ school for my first year of education). I feel that I benefited from it in a number of ways: smaller classes with more individually focused teaching; good male role models among some of the staff (many of whom had come into teaching after other careers); a great library with a wide range of books; a broad curriculum and more emphasis on developing the ‘whole’ boy rather than simply cram him through exams.
I also had the chance to play a lot of sport and there were a wide range of extra-curricular activities I took part in, from journalism to theatre to Cadet Corps. Also I did several years of volunteering once a week at a local school for children with learning difficulties.
Single sex education has its critics but I think it was a positive experience because boys and girls learn and develop in different ways during their teenage years. When I went to university the coed environment was a sign that I had emerged (well sort of!) into adulthood.
That said I am very much in favour of properly funded state schools with a broad curriculum and some of the characteristics of the private system I have described. It wasn’t perfect of course but nothing in life is. Anyway I don’t regret going there - but I do regret the general lack of educational opportunity these days and the narrow emphasis on exams at the expense of growing up in a rounded way.
I also had the chance to play a lot of sport and there were a wide range of extra-curricular activities I took part in, from journalism to theatre to Cadet Corps. Also I did several years of volunteering once a week at a local school for children with learning difficulties.
Single sex education has its critics but I think it was a positive experience because boys and girls learn and develop in different ways during their teenage years. When I went to university the coed environment was a sign that I had emerged (well sort of!) into adulthood.
That said I am very much in favour of properly funded state schools with a broad curriculum and some of the characteristics of the private system I have described. It wasn’t perfect of course but nothing in life is. Anyway I don’t regret going there - but I do regret the general lack of educational opportunity these days and the narrow emphasis on exams at the expense of growing up in a rounded way.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
More funding to a sector that, on international comparisons, is going backwards at a rate of knots.In Australia we have about 1200 private schools.
In Germany, they have 2500.
Private schools are not vital. Australia is vastly over-served by private schools. And our state and federal governments have been captured by this industry.
Disadvantage accelerates as private school funding rises six times public schools over the decade - Michael West
By 2029 public schools will be underfunded by $60 billion; private schools overfunded by $6 billion - with huge costs to society as a result
View attachment 1085718
The dire straits of public school funding today is the result of the war waged by successive Coalition governments against the Gonski funding plan to direct more government funding to those most in need.
Education Minister Alan Tudge has been an active participant in all stages of the war. He opposed the Gonski plan at the outset because it would “penalise” Catholic and Independent schools.
He and his colleagues are fulfilling what Tony Abbott called the Liberal Party’s “proud history of funding independent and Catholic schools” to “protect them” and ensure they “continue to flourish”.
Tudge has even claimed that we have “very good social mobility and social equity in our school system…” It is so far from the truth as to be ludicrous. The PISA 2018 results show a three-year learning gap between 15-year-old students from high and low socio-economic status (SES) families. Much higher proportions of high SES students complete Year 12 than low SES students.
...
The flagrant favouritism in funding private schools can only be described as outrageous and obscene. It makes it virtually impossible to reduce the achievement gap between the most disadvantaged and advantaged students
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It was good for Rugby and there was a lot of emphasis on sport, but I was also involved a lot in the political discussion club and edited the school magazine. There were many opportunities like that and so I didn’t find it a waste.
