Private Schools

[HirdsTheWord]

No, because private schools are a vital avenue for tax-paying parents to escape the geographic discrimination of the public system

Why should access to good education be even further limited to those who live in elite inner-metro suburbs?

Many Public Schools provide a Good Education, It just that many private schools provide a Great education.

More money will always attract better teachers.

More money will always attract better facilities.

More money will always attract better technology.

No matter what you do there always be a divide against Public Schools to Private Schools, that's just the economic way of life. The government cant compete with that level of funding.

Its much like a poor team trying to compete with a rich team in an un salary capped sport.

 

[Chief]

No matter what you do there always be a divide against Public Schools to Private Schools, that's just the economic way of life. The government cant compete with that level of funding.

If this was the case, private schools wouldn’t need government money.

Best option? Close private schools and have a system of selective public schools.

Other countries survive without private schools. We can too.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

If this was the case, private schools wouldn’t need government money.

Best option? Close private schools and have a system of selective public schools.

Other countries survive without private schools. We can too.

I absolutely agree the majority of private schools should not be given government funding.

The fringe ones, maybe. But the ones charging 15k + a year, absolutely not.

 

[Chief]

I absolutely agree the majority of private schools should not be given government funding.

The fringe ones, maybe. But the ones charging 15k + a year, absolutely not.

If the government made it law that all private schools are selective schools and gave those schools $x per child per year, then keep them private. They can do whatever it is they think they do best, and all children have an equal chance at attending those schools.

For those who believe private schools give a better education and that they save governments money, then this is also the best option: waste is reduced as thick kids no longer get a premium education, and smart kids all get to go to good schools and achieve their potential.

 

[Caesar]

Best option? Close private schools and have a system of selective public schools.

How appallingly soviet

 

[Chief]

How appallingly soviet

Soros!

 

[Suspense]

Many Public Schools provide a Good Education, It just that many private schools provide a Great education.

More money will always attract better teachers.

Public school teacher salaries are usually at or around private school teacher salaries. The latter tends to follow the former once a new EBA is established.

I don't think you can generalise the quality of teachers in either setting - but this notion that the private system attracts the best teachers due to the pay is inaccurate (although it is harder to get sacked in the public system once you are permanent).

If anything, the private system attracts teachers that can't be ****ed dealing with behaviour management and other such classroom challenges.

 

[Deliverance]

The amount of money a teacher receives has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are.

 

[Chief]

The amount of money a teacher receives has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are.

There is a theory that there was a brain drain from teaching once smart women were able to get better paying jobs in law, finance, medicine etc.

 

[Deliverance]

There is a theory that there was a brain drain from teaching once smart women were able to get better paying jobs in law, finance, medicine etc.

Going by people I've known and encountered who work on those three industries, I'm glad they're not teachers.
Good teaching isn't about booksmarts.

 

[Caesar]

Damn straight, it’s about long holidays and going home at 3pm

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Public school teacher salaries are usually at or around private school teacher salaries. The latter tends to follow the former once a new EBA is established.

I don't think you can generalise the quality of teachers in either setting - but this notion that the private system attracts the best teachers due to the pay is inaccurate (although it is harder to get sacked in the public system once you are permanent).

If anything, the private system attracts teachers that can't be f’ed dealing with behaviour management and other such classroom challenges.

I disagree with that.

Many private schools pay above that of Public Schools, at least on my experience. My wife used to work at a public school was head hunted and then got a 20% pay rise to go to a Private School, in essentially the same position.

Obviously its not a linear line across the whole sector but in my experience there is a lot more financial opportunity at a Private School.

 

[Chief]

Obviously its not a linear line across the whole sector but in my experience there is a lot more financial opportunity at a Private School.

If so, what chance do public schools have if better teachers are moving to private schools? Sounds like it would make it harder to improve schools in less well off areas.

 

[Deliverance]

I disagree with that.

Many private schools pay above that of Public Schools, at least on my experience. My wife used to work at a public school was head hunted and then got a 20% pay rise to go to a Private School, in essentially the same position.

Obviously its not a linear line across the whole sector but in my experience there is a lot more financial opportunity at a Private School.

Did she become a better teacher because of the extra 20% pay?

 

[Chief]

Did she become a better teacher because of the extra 20% pay?

Maybe she was a good teacher who fit the needs of that school?

 

[Deliverance]

Maybe she was a good teacher who fit the needs of that school?

It's a ridiculous premise that private schools attract better teachers. Teachers in low sicioeconic areas who achieve excellent relative improvement levels for their students, are THE BEST teachers. Schools who do this for entire cohorts are the best schools. Take Narre P12 as an example over the last few years.
Private schools attract the best students nor the best staff.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Did she become a better teacher because of the extra 20% pay?

No, all i'm saying is better money typically attracts better teachers. Also better money means better facilities and technology.

Remove Academic Selective Schools and there is generally a clear Gap between Private Schools and Public Schools.

you can disagree if you want, but the academic rankings speak for themselves.

 

[Chief]

the academic rankings speak for themselves.

And also the poor first year University results for kids from private schools as they struggle to adapt to independent learning.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

And also the poor first year University results for kids from private schools as they struggle to adapt to independent learning.

not disputing that. Private schools are definitely more hand held than public schools.

but my point remains that Private Schools generally get better results than Public schools remains correct

 

[Chief]

not disputing that. Private schools are definitely more hand held than public schools.

but my point remains that Private Schools generally get better results than Public schools remains correct

To what end? They seem to be putting resources into pumping up grades - and hiding the poorly performing kids, let’s not forget - but these practices are hurting the students in the long run.

Private schools are a sham and a waste.

 

[Deliverance]

not disputing that. Private schools are definitely more hand held than public schools.

but my point remains that Private Schools generally get better results than Public schools remains correct

Not because of the teachers, or the facilities though. It's because of the students who go there. The research is clear. When socioeconomic factors are accounted for, public schools out perform private schools, and public school students perform better at uni.

Going purely on results would be like me taking Richmond in to Div 2 EFL, winning the flag and saying I'm the best coach because I got the best results.

Private school funding is not s good use of government money.

 

[Sphynx]

1. There is a pretty hard limit on how much you can improve a public school in a poor socioeconomic area without fixing the wider social problems first
2. Selective state schools are great but they are by definition limited to children who display a particular aptitude
3. Well-off is relative, arguably the money and flexibility needed for a home in a good catchment area requires one to be more well-off than simply affording fees at a modest private school

No surprise that the very best public schools, particularly in Melbourne, are also in fairly affluent areas.

They operate as pseudo private schools themselves.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Kew High, Canterbury Girls Secondary College, Balwyn High, McKinnon Secondary College, Williamstown High, Box Hill High are all the bastions of the public system in Melbourne and they are all only attainable schools to kids of parents in the top 15% of wage brackets

No different to most private schools, except the parents of these kids get to take their kids skiing to Japan an extra time per year because they aren't paying private school fees.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

To what end? They seem to be putting resources into pumping up grades - and hiding the poorly performing kids, let’s not forget - but these practices are hurting the students in the long run.

Private schools are a sham and a waste.

The Government cant afford to run ALL the schools, so private schools are unfortunately required to some degree. I do agree though that the ones charging obscene money should not be getting any government assistance.

I cant really complain, I was lucky enough to go to a Private School, did well at University and now in a very well paying job.

Obviously some kids fall through the cracks but you cant stop that.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not because of the teachers, or the facilities though. It's because of the students who go there. The research is clear. When socioeconomic factors are accounted for, public schools out perform private schools, and public school students perform better at uni.

Going purely on results would be like me taking Richmond in to Div 2 EFL, winning the flag and saying I'm the best coach because I got the best results.

Private school funding is not s good use of government money.

I disagree with most of what you say but I definitely agree that government shouldn't be funding private schools.

Private Schools generally achieve better HSC results than Public Schools, obviously not accounting for Selective Schools. Of course things like Technology, Facilities and Teachers factor into this? Do you think kids that go to private Schools are just inherently smarter?

 

[Deliverance]

I disagree with most of what you say but I definitely agree that government shouldn't be funding private schools.

The thing is, what I'm saying is not an opinion. It's backed up by academic research. So unless you've researched in the field, you can't disagree with it in good conscience.