Private Schools

[Chief]

The federal government has pumped a lot of money in recently, but because they aren't responsible for public education it's mostly gone to private schools

They could hand that money to the states and let them decide. But LNP is Jonesing for a world where the plebs have to fight for the right to an appropriately funded education.

 

[Caesar]

They could hand that money to the states and let them decide.

That's always a hard sell politically, because it means the state government gets all the credit for the spending

 

[Chief]

That's always a hard sell politically, because it means the state government gets all the credit for the spending

Instead they take a collectivist approach and make the decision from above.

It's an ideological stance. Nothing to do with what is best for the people.

 

[Gigantic]

Bit of a misleading graph given that it doesn't distinguish between state and federal money - think you would find that state governments have tipped in more money to public schools than private schools over that period

The federal government has pumped a lot of money in recently, but because they aren't responsible for public education it's mostly gone to private schools

State government funding for public schools was cut by an average of $660 per student compared to an increase of $221 per student for private schools.

Private School Funding Increase is Six Times the Public School Increase – SOS Australia

 

[Deliverance]

 

[Caesar]

State government funding for public schools was cut by an average of $660 per student compared to an increase of $221 per student for private schools.

Fair enough, must admit I found that a bit surprising.

State governments took advantage of increased Commonwealth funding to cut their own funding of public schools but increased their funding for private schools despite the large increase in Commonwealth funding. State government funding for public schools was cut by an average of $660 per student compared to an increase of $221 per student for private schools. All state governments, both Labor and Liberal-NP, cut funding for public schools by significant amounts between 2009-10 and 2018-19 while providing small increases for private schools.

 

[Mara Singha]

Australia sends too many people to uni

Caesar opposes non-wealthy people getting educated. There's a surprise.

 

[Caesar]

Caesar opposes non-wealthy people getting educated. There's a surprise.

Who are you?

 

[Chief]

I think Australia sends too many people to uni, but by the same token I think trades are often falsely presented to young men as a river of gold.

It’s a tough gig, and for every story like your uncle’s or your mate’s there’s another for whom it’s taken a big toll on their mental and physical health.

We’re short on all sorts of professions. We import nurses and doctors, for one.

 

[Caesar]

We’re short on all sorts of professions. We import nurses and doctors, for one.

Sure - on the whole we do a bad job of fitting training to workforce demand

 

[Deliverance]

So is it the school or the suburb? Are we wasting hundreds of millions on school funding each year?

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[Caesar]

So is it the school or the suburb?

Often they are linked - if you live in a shit area, a private school is the only way to ensure your kids get a good education amongst a good socioeconomic demographic with quality academic competition

I mean, why do you think so many kids from country areas go to boarding school?

 

[Deliverance]

Often they are linked - if you live in a sh*t area, a private school is the only way to ensure your kids get a good education amongst a good socioeconomic demographic with quality academic competition

I mean, why do you think so many kids from country areas go to boarding school?

IDK. Their parents don't want
to raise them?

 

[Caesar]

IDK. Their parents don't want
to raise them?

Because their parents want them to have a high quality education with healthy academic competition, and that doesn't happen when they are thrown into a tiny local school in a low-socioeconomic area

Public education is all very well if you live in Rose Bay, not so much if you live in Kempsey or Moree - in many ways private schools are a geographic equaliser

 

[Deliverance]

Because their parents want them to have a high quality education with healthy academic competition, and that doesn't happen when they are thrown into a tiny local school in a low-socioeconomic area

Public education is all very well if you live in Rose Bay, not so much if you live in Kempsey or Moree - in many ways private schools are a geographic equaliser

So, it's suburb dependent then.

 

[Caesar]

So, it's suburb dependent then.

No, it's socioeconomic-dependent. We like to pretend that public schools afford everyone the same standard of education, but the reality is that no matter how much money you sink into a school - quality of education mostly comes down to the socioeconomics of the students

The public school system sucks because it actively ghettoises children - skyrocketing house prices and rents are making it less and less viable for parents to move into a better catchment area to better their children's prospects

For many, private schools that don't discriminate geographically are an important educational lifeline

 

[Deliverance]

No, it's socioeconomic-dependent. We like to pretend that public schools afford everyone the same standard of education, but the reality is that no matter how much money you sink into a school - quality of education mostly comes down to the socioeconomics of the students

The public school system sucks because it actively ghettoises children through geographic discrimination - skyrocketing house prices and rents are making it more and more unviable for parents to move into a better catchment area

For many, private schools are an important educational lifeline

So private funding is a waste of money.

 

[Caesar]

So private funding is a waste of money.

No, because private schools are a vital avenue for tax-paying parents to escape the geographic discrimination of the public system

Why should access to good education be even further limited to those who live in elite inner-metro suburbs?

 

[Chief]

No, because private schools are a vital avenue for tax-paying parents to escape the geographic discrimination of the public system

Why should access to good education be even further limited to those who live in elite inner-metro suburbs?

Why not improve all schools?

Provide selective state schools?

Who are the "tax-paying parents"? You mean "well off", surely?

 

[Caesar]

Why not improve all schools?

Provide selective state schools?

Who are the "tax-paying parents"? You mean "well off", surely?

1. There is a pretty hard limit on how much you can improve a public school in a poor socioeconomic area without fixing the wider social problems first
2. Selective state schools are great but they are by definition limited to children who display a particular aptitude
3. Well-off is relative, arguably the money and flexibility needed for a home in a good catchment area requires one to be more well-off than simply affording fees at a modest private school

 

[Chief]

fixing the wider social problems first

This would be the place to start, then, wouldn't it?

Selective state schools are great but they are by definition limited to children who display a particular aptitude

Which is what you want, isn't it? Academic competition for high performing kids?

 

[Caesar]

This would be the place to start, then, wouldn't it?

What, step 1 - fix society? Admirable but not really practical

Obviously we should work to decrease socioeconomic inequality but in the meantime I think we have an obligation to ensure that existing parents have plenty of options to access existing good schools for their children

Increased accessibility to private schools can be part of the solution - escaping the ghettoisation of the public school system is a big cause of flight from economically marginalised areas

Which is what you want, isn't it? Academic competition for high performing kids?

I want more children to have access to the best education. I don't believe that it should have to hinge solely on them being academically-, artistically- or athletically-gifted

Selective schools are great but if parents want to make financial sacrifices to send their perfectly average kids to a good school, that is also a good thing and we should be supporting them

 

[Deliverance]

Why not improve all schools?

Provide selective state schools?

Who are the "tax-paying parents"? You mean "well off", surely?

Because then parents can't wank each other off about who wins the head of the river each year.

 

[Caesar]

Because then parents can't wank each other off about who wins the head of the river each year.

Elite privates make up a very small proportion of the ~35% of Australian kids who go to non-government schools

 

[Suspense]

1. There is a pretty hard limit on how much you can improve a public school in a poor socioeconomic area without fixing the wider social problems first

Improving public schooling is critical to fixing those wider social problems - particularly when discussing generational poverty and educational outcomes.

I don't think there is any such hard limit on improving public schooling in low socioeconomic areas. It is, however:

1. Expensive (requiring significantly lower class sizes/tutoring)
2. Broadly speaking - not in the interests of the middle/upper classes