Autopsy Round 6 = Collingwood 85-109 Essendon

[Drought Break]

Has seemed disinterested or not fully engaged, at least, for a long time.

Feels like he has tarnished a wonderful reputation in the past 15 months.

The tarnish started in the GF 2018 where he was worse on ground, continued in 2019 PF with another poor performance. Then the whole saga of 2020 and a very poor start to 21.

 

[grayza2018]

The kids are not going to win games. It's a choice for buckley. Play kids and lose job or play the best available and maybe keep job.

Well yeah that's pretty obvious, isn't it.

Hopefully the buy in from the player group is still there. Questionable after yesterday

 

[mike123]

yeh... rational responses but we're not talking rational situation. The media is feasting on the pies and exploiting every situation for its possible negative result. Pie supporters are effectively supporting the media strategy by seeking out and responding to every media report. My proof of this statement is the number of media reports that go out of their way to sensationalise the pie situation. They do it because it works on pie supporters.

my only positive view on this is that richmond worked through a similar situation where their supporters were the club's worst enemy.

Collingwood’s poor decision making is their worst enemy

 

[Markfs]

Well yeah that's pretty obvious, isn't it.

Hopefully the buy in from the player group is still there. Questionable after yesterday

if its obvious, try convincing the people who say that we should play the kids and win games......maybe thats possible in the latest version of the afl video game

 

[Markfs]

Collingwood’s poor decision making is their worst enemy

you can change the people who make the decisions. you cant change the fan base

 

[mike123]

you can change the people who make the decisions. you cant change the fan base

Tells us where our focus should be then

 

[regpies]

The ball use by our team today was utterly atrocious seriously what do they do all week even pendles looks like he's been hit by it too. The only player I felt confident with ball in hand was daicos. Geez our defence between Maynard, Roughead, Crisp, Magden and Noble was scary didn't feel safe with any of them kicking outside the defensive 50. Yes Crisp played a good game but his kicking backwards of centre is scary. Sidebottom quite possibly one of the worst ever 30 touch games in history. Grundy non existent.

The lack of options is ahead is what makes ball use for our defenders very hard.

We don’t have enough smart or hard running forwards/wingers at the moment who can provide an option.

Pendles has been caught with the ball a few times this year. Those times are when he’s been looking for a good option ahead and can’t find one.

 

[barrackers]

Despite how bad our kicking was without the horrible misses by Cameron and the boundary ump the first goal of the last quarter would have put us 2 goals up. Do we still lose from that position?

 

[LuckyLee]

Why select midfielders in Macrae and Rantall then play them as forwards? It just sets them up to fail.

IMO, they should have alternated in the centre square. One on, one off, 50% game time for each. Let’s see what they can do in their best positions, not something totally foreign to them.


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[fpm84]

How do Geelong continue to contend without ever plunging to the bottom run of the ladder or sliding into mediocrity?

- 8-9 games a year at a ground we are almost unbeatable at means we only need to win a handful of games away from KP to make finals
- very fortunate that a number of players (most notably Dangerfield and Cameron) have chosen to come to us to be closer to home/prefer the beachy lifestyle away from the big smoke. Both players came to us for far less $$ than they were offered to stay at their original clubs, meaning we are the complete opposite to a team like St K who overpays recruits (Hill, Hannebery)
- giving kids opportunities and sticking with them. The likes of Parfitt, Miers and Henry have barely missed a game since debuting for us meaning they are already at the 50-90 game mark without the pressure to need to perform at AA level given the experience around them
- great recruiting given our lack of early draft picks. Blicavs as a cat B rookie, O’Connor (becoming a gun tagger this year) as an Irish recruit, Stewart out of the GFL via our VFL team

I’m not trying to say we are the gold class standard because our supporters can point to many things we have been unhappy with. Personally I wasn’t overly happy with the recruitment of Smith and Higgins last year.

From an outsider’s POV I think your current issues stem from the Beams/Grundy contracts and what that’s meant for your list management. Ben Brown was available for basically a packet of chips last year and you guys couldn’t even chase him (the fact he hasn’t played this year is irrelevant) presumably due to salary cap issues.

Add in the Treloar/Stephenson situation which surely unsettled the playing group and it’s not hard to see why there may be some unhappiness down there.

I don’t think your future looks bad though, Daicos and Quaynor are future A graders, JDG still has enough time on his side to reach his potential, I’m sure Henry and Macrae will be worth the investment once they find their feet at AFL level.

Just like Adelaide are clearing out many people associated with their disastrous camp and grand final loss fallout, and starting to look like they’re on the right pathway, I think Collingwood will need to do the same to get rid of some of the key drivers of the negativity of the past couple of years (Lumumba situation, Beams recruitment, bad contract management). When you do, I reckon you’ll see immediate improvement.

 

[mike123]

We don’t have enough smart or hard running forwards/wingers at the moment who can provide an option.

That’s a problem that arises when you first year midfielders up forward.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Mayne has been very good. His 2018 grand final was superb. He has justified his recruitment.

Not at the price we paid for him, and Wells.

Not disagreeing that he's been a good player, price not justified but.

 

[No SPIN]

There is a smell of lethargy, exhaustion and lack of any sign of passion or enthusiasm around the club and players. Natural enough, given our season to date, but the only thing the players seem to get excited about at the moment is the announcement of another debutant at training.

How do Geelong continue to contend without ever plunging to the bottom run of the ladder or sliding into mediocrity?

Home ground advantage giving them 86% win rate and guarantee of 8-9 wins is a major leg up.
But then you look at their finals win rate at around 25% since the 2011 GF which tells another story.
Making Top 8 is clearly due to HGA, and not a true reflection of their quality.
Scott and Bucks have each made one GF since 2012.

 

[kickitolachie]

It was obvious at the start of the season that if there were any absentees from the top group of players, there was nothing behind them and the team would crash. Even that thin crust was only enough for a competitive but not contending team.

This week, 5 of the mainstays were not there. Reasonable players or dead raw recruits were expected to replace them. They can't.

None of our young players are high draft picks. We would be very lucky to find a lot of champions among them. Certainly not a lot of overnight successes.

We got rid of our solid backup players in the quest for a rebuild, but the salary cap debacle means that the rebuild will be slow. We are without the high picks both on the list and in prospect to have a quick turnaround. We have to realize that we face a period on the bottom, stop carping at the leadership that is facing the problems, but support them as they do it.

The appalling treatment of the good players we unloaded through poor management severely damaged my faith in the club, but if you are going to support a team, you do it through thick and thin. If they are trying to correct past mistakes, you support them. You don't if they don't try. I believe that they clearly are making all the effort that the system allows them to. There is no point in endlessly bagging our own players, or calling for the coaches head when the fault lies elsewhere. With management if you need it spelled out.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's going to take some backbone to stick to playing kids who are spectating at worst, and doing the odd good things at best. If buckley doesnt win games, he is signing off on his resignation. The people saying we should play kids wont accept losses.

No one here or in the supporter base has an option to 'accept', we've gone into rebuild whether or not by necessity is regardless. As soon as we got pineappled up the rear in the 'trade' period us fans knew we were no longer in contention. Some wouldn't 'accept' that but have to now.

Club knew much earlier, would've been nice if the club was / is transparent and just admit we threw the window out the window - again.

Buckley by reading his demeanour and language has already resigned to the fact that he's cooked, something we have to accept.

For me that's hard to take, so so wanted him to hoist the cup with Pendles above his head. But hey the club fkd over the last decade and have to accept criticism now. Gonna be hard for them to regain our trust.

 

[ThePhantom777]

That's where Kelly's positives begin and end.

You always look for a 'glimpse' with young players. Kelly has not had one MOMENT where he looks like he'll become an AFL player.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

A lot went wrong today but it was a bloody young side out there. The negatives out of the day have been done to death but I saw some encouraging signs too.

McCreery had his best game and continues to improve each game. I loved his 3rd goal crumbing front and centre. Applied a lot of pressure.

Quaynor was so positive in his offensive intent. Very creative.

Daicos in midfield. His clearances got us our first two goals and he toiled with poise all game.

Murphy, I didn't expect it, but looked comfortable at the level. I thought competed well and also handled the pressure.

WHE looked more involved from the wing.

Cameron had a good game as a ruck forward.

Crisp, Pendles and Moore were their reliable selves.

We were never gonna be able to cope with injuries this year, our depth is too skint, so take the little wins.

I agree with pretty much everything you've noted here Quicky. It's a lot easier to critique the bad elements after a loss but at the ground it was obvious we did have some upside.

Was a shame we didn't play the youngsters in the middle which would be their natural game.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Why select midfielders in Macrae and Rantall then play them as forwards? It just sets them up to fail.

IMO, they should have alternated in the centre square. One on, one off, 50% game time for each. Let’s see what they can do in their best positions, not something totally foreign to them.


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I remember a young Bomber playing in the middle against us a few years ago - seemed out of his depth. A few years on he attained 42 possies and 2 goals.

 

[Kirby]

For those at the game, did we have any targets ahead of the ball at all - as it seemed like Steele didn't want to kick it forward and then when he didn't get caught with the ball, he ended up intentionally kicking mongrel torps, as though he was looking to create chaos balls.

Our whole structure is wrong and we can't play with any fluency at all. The only time we looked to move the ball well inside 50 was when Pendles had the ball in his hands as he has the genius to create space and kick the ball to advantage. But to answer your question, no there were very few targets in front of the ball and their leading patterns are a total mess. Every time Moore lead for the ball there were another 2 or 3 of our players in his space (plus their opponents).

Our forwards do not play as a team and they do not make any space for each other. The other thing that they never do is lead sideways or backwards, which again results in a cluster of players and no space. It does my head in.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Why select midfielders in Macrae and Rantall then play them as forwards? It just sets them up to fail.

IMO, they should have alternated in the centre square. One on, one off, 50% game time for each. Let’s see what they can do in their best positions, not something totally foreign to them.


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Macrae spent time on ball.
Forward flank/pocket is a pretty standard place to introduce new midfielders. They get limited runs through the midfield to ease them into it. Joel Selwoods are the exception. We'd be losing by 100 each week if we gave them serious midfield minutes before they're ready.

 

[sideswipe]

Our whole structure is wrong and we can't play with any fluency at all. The only time we looked to move the ball well inside 50 was when Pendles had the ball in his hands as he has the genius to create space and kick the ball to advantage. But to answer your question, no there were very few targets in front of the ball and their leading patterns are a total mess. Every time Moore lead for the ball there were another 2 or 3 of our players in his space (plus their opponents).

Our forwards do not play as a team and they do not make any space for each other. The other thing that they never do is lead sideways or backwards, which again results in a cluster of players and no space. It does my head in.

It was certainly very difficult for me to identify any structure in our play. The stupid jumper clash didn't help. We just seemed under pressure all day/night.

I can only surmise that Bruzzy is using emotional blackmail on me in the form of excess clanger production to test if my man-crush is real.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Macrae spent time on ball.
Forward flank/pocket is a pretty standard place to introduce new midfielders. They get limited runs through the midfield to ease them into it. Joel Selwoods are the exception. We'd be losing by 100 each week if we gave them serious midfield minutes before they're ready.

Give it time.

 

[Billys Back]

Over critical of Grundy.
Thought ESS shut down Sidebottom and Miochek, on top of Howe and De Goey being out had a big say on the result.

Adams our most important ‘out’

 

[grayza2018]

if its obvious, try convincing the people who say that we should play the kids and win games......maybe thats possible in the latest version of the afl video game

Plenty want to have their cake and eat it, too. Especially on the back of contending years and hanging in there, it's hard to accept.

Hopefully we nail a mid season pick, get Nick Daicos in, and some green shoots start coming through quickly with the current squad, and the pain of this list transition doesn't last too long

 

[Billys Back]

Why select midfielders in Macrae and Rantall then play them as forwards? It just sets them up to fail.

IMO, they should have alternated in the centre square. One on, one off, 50% game time for each. Let’s see what they can do in their best positions, not something totally foreign to them.


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I suppose a lot of young midfielders will commence their careers half back, half forward and then progress to the midfield. McGrath, Cluggage etc are prime examples.