The Serious Covid Thread - For Those Who Want Serious Discussion

[TradeDraft]

We are blessed in this sunburnt land with polar opposite gangs that people call Liberal and Labor.

The only things they have in common are incompetence and corruption that are always kept at Olympian level.

Labor gang spends too much public money and goes into deficit.

Liberal gang sells off public assets to corporates to stave off deficit.

The dance is that both gangs are constantly tearing down the work of their predecessors which gives the net result of sfa.

......................................................

The Pollies are only there for themselves

 

[jonmacTrag]

The Pollies are only there for themselves

Very true TD - the whole government thing is about who is more popular - not who is the most qualified/dedicated.

 

[TradeDraft]

Very true TD - the whole government thing is about who is more popular - not who is the most qualified/dedicated.

Just need to see who is Prime Minster to know it's not about who is Most Qualified

 

[TradeDraft]

Glady still not learning

 

[jonmacTrag]

Just need to see who is Prime Minster to know it's not about who is Most Qualified

Totally TD but that is our system of government so with those who are running it the only ones that can change to a new system - and ruin their careers in the process - it's never going to happen voluntarily.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Victoria is 'in 2 minds' (Brett Sutton) about introducing a vaccine passport and making immunisation compulsory for attendance at functions. Apparently much of our AZ production is heading overseas because of the lack of take up here. If only Australian governments had the balls to make quick and effective decisions to encourage people to get vaccinated.

 

[TradeDraft]

Victoria is 'in 2 minds' (Brett Sutton) about introducing a vaccine passport and making immunisation compulsory for attendance at functions. Apparently much of our AZ production is heading overseas because of the lack of take up here. If only Australian governments had the balls to make quick and effective decisions to encourage people to get vaccinated.

Where did you hear that as 1st I heard about the Vaccine Passport

Would help the Goverment make 1 Descioin and Stick with it and not change there minds Daily/Weekly

 

[jathanas]

Victoria is 'in 2 minds' (Brett Sutton) about introducing a vaccine passport and making immunisation compulsory for attendance at functions. Apparently much of our AZ production is heading overseas because of the lack of take up here. If only Australian governments had the balls to make quick and effective decisions to encourage people to get vaccinated.

I agree, if it's one thing we know about COVID is that half-arsed measures don't work. Half-arsed lockdowns, half-arsed vax programs etc.

The AZ rollout was FUBAR mostly in the way the risks were communicated.

Whilst the AMA's findings were scientifically accurate, their recommendations were just that; a medical view of the risks of the vaccine treatment taken against that snapshot in time.

As you said, had we been blessed with someone with the vision of how quickly things can go pear-shaped things might have been different now.

Hindsight is 20-20.

Anyway, in further good news for you there is a high likelihood that from October onwards our vaccination passport will be acceptable OS.

AstraZeneca vaccine and international travel: Will Europe and US allow Australians to enter?

The European Medicines Agency has only authorised four vaccines - and the AstraZeneca vaccine used in Australia is not one of them.

www.traveller.com.au

 

[TradeDraft]

Anyway, in further good news for you there is a high likelihood that from October onwards our vaccination passport will be acceptable OS.

AstraZeneca vaccine and international travel: Will Europe and US allow Australians to enter?

The European Medicines Agency has only authorised four vaccines - and the AstraZeneca vaccine used in Australia is not one of them.

www.traveller.com.au

So we might not be able to Travel Between Seats but we be able to Travel Overseas IF you are Vaccinated?

 

[jonmacTrag]

I agree, if it's one thing we know about COVID is that half-arsed measures don't work. Half-arsed lockdowns, half-arsed vax programs etc.

The AZ rollout was FUBAR mostly in the way the risks were communicated.

Whilst the AMA's findings were scientifically accurate, their recommendations were just that; a medical view of the risks of the vaccine treatment taken against that snapshot in time.

As you said, had we been blessed with someone with the vision of how quickly things can go pear-shaped and things might have been different now.

Hindsight is 20-20.

Anyway, in further good news for you there is a high likelihood that from October onwards our vaccination passport will be acceptable OS.

AstraZeneca vaccine and international travel: Will Europe and US allow Australians to enter?

The European Medicines Agency has only authorised four vaccines - and the AstraZeneca vaccine used in Australia is not one of them.

www.traveller.com.au

We were blessed with that someone right from the start and Scomo ridiculed his hard line approach.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Where did you hear that as 1st I heard about the Vaccine Passport

Would help the Goverment make 1 Descioin and Stick with it and not change there minds Daily/Weekly

On SBS news with Sutton quoted. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the vaccine to be compulsory for participation in certain activities or for travel. Governments in this country simply don't seem to have the courage to make decisions which may be interpreted as an infringement of people's rights. We seem content to be the worst OECD country in rolling out the vaccine.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So we might not be able to Travel Between Seats but we be able to Travel Overseas IF you are Vaccinated?

Being accepted into foreign countries is only a small part of the battle. There is still the need for permission to leave, then the struggle to get back in to Australia.

 

[jonmacTrag]

It’s the one flaw in our political system, which is one of the best in the world.
We don’t get to vote for our leader.
The party votes for him/her. And as we have seen in the past, the leader of the party isn’t necessarily the person that ends up being Prime Minister at the end of the term.
Amd we have no say I’m that. Which isn’t right.

All the western democracies are the same.

It isn't a truly representative democracy if the leader is the biggest bully in the gang.

John Howard is a prime example - deputy opposition leader for a decade and backstabbed his way to the leadership.

 

[jonmacTrag]

The US is a western democracy isn’t it?
And they vote for their leader. In fact, even though we don’t vote for our leader it doesn’t really matter because every law our parliament has to be signed off by the representative of a Royal who lives 10,000kms away and rarely visits.
In reality, we really are a backwater in controlling our own destiny.

Actually in the US the leader is decided by how much backing he has pre election just as we are - the only difference is the farcical presidential vote.

The US is a hundred times worse a democracy because it is run by the mega corps who BUY politicians and the president.

As a democracy the US is a farce.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

Actually in the US the leader is decided by how much backing he has pre election just as we are - the only difference is the farcical presidential vote.

The US is a hundred times worse a democracy because it is run by the mega corps who BUY politicians and the president.

As a democracy the US is a farce.

100%
It's also a morbid fascination of a short lived super power imploding.
The GOP are now a Fascist party.
The United States are in utter decay both employment, health, socioeconomic and especially environmental wise.
The new hat should be MALA
Make America livable again

 

[jonmacTrag]

I don’t disagree with the latter part of your post.
But the core value of the system was based on one person, one vote, President by popular vote.
That system has become corrupted, and every day is being further corrupted.
But that core promise, from so many years ago, has to be admired for its intentions.

*edit* And to be truthful, the system really was “one white person, one white person vote” for many years. Just like us!

I understand the distinction you are making but if the entire system is predjudiced by politicians being OWNED by corporations then the presidential vote is meaningless IMHO,

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

On the same day as the Thai Vaccine Director also apologised for the extremely poor rollout there, a day after the Thai Pm had blamed people for not doing the right thing and spreading the virus. The Director said he hadn't seen the Delta variant coming - not quite sure how the dear doctor got the job if he is unaware that viruses mutate! But with 13000+ cases today and 2 dead bodies found on the street which subsequently proved covid positive, the lack of vaccines and lockdowns is looking grim for that country. Apologies really mean nothing in these circumstances. People expect experts and prime ministers to act decisively in the best interests of the people, and when they don't, saying sorry just isn't going to cut it.

 

[jonmacTrag]

This is what happens when politicians are not held accountable for their actions or omissions.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

136 cases in NSW today. With a tiny proportion of the population vaccinated, the lowest percentage in the OECD, and a mutant strain which rivals the magic pudding for its ability to reproduce itself, I would not be surprised to see much of the country in a semi permanent state of lockdown in a month or so. There has to be another way to cope with this virus. Unfortunately, the federal government has made sure through its total incompetence, along with the reluctance of the country's population to get jabbed with AZ, that vaccines are not going to provide a path out of this crisis for a long long time to come.

 

[Maggie5]

136 cases in NSW today. With a tiny proportion of the population vaccinated, the lowest percentage in the OECD, and a mutant strain which rivals the magic pudding for its ability to reproduce itself, I would not be surprised to see much of the country in a semi permanent state of lockdown in a month or so. There has to be another way to cope with this virus. Unfortunately, the federal government has made sure through its total incompetence, along with the reluctance of the country's population to get jabbed with AZ, that vaccines are not going to provide a path out of this crisis for a long long time to come.

I listened to both press conferences today and was totally unimpressed with NSW Premier. I in fact applauded her the first time around but she has lost control of the situation there and now we suffer. Her answers were stock answers, just typical political spin.

We really don't have much in the way of good politicians.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I listened to both press conferences today and was totally unimpressed with NSW Premier. I in fact applauded her the first time around but she has lost control of the situation there and now we suffer. Her answers were stock answers, just typical political spin.

We really don't have much in the way of good politicians.

Agreed and I would add Dan into that mix. You are a hardier sole than me. I cannot listen to Andrews but Gladys has certainly slid numerous rungs in my estimation. The other thing I find hard to accept is that the Federal government alone made all the vaccine decisions that are now coming back to bite us. What is the point of having a national cabinet to discuss and make covid related decisions if lockdowns and restrictions are decided solely by states and vaccines are the exclusive preserve of the LNP central government? I would have thought that the expertise of all group members would have been utilised in the making of decisions. If not, what is the point of having the national cabinet in the first place. The system of government in this country needs a total overhaul. With 2 houses of legislature in each state plus 2 more at federal level, what little political talent this country possesses is spread far too thinly, not to mention the cost of paying high salaries to so many politicians.

 

[Maggie5]

Agreed and I would add Dan into that mix. You are a hardier sole than me. I cannot listen to Andrews but Gladys has certainly slid numerous rungs in my estimation. The other thing I find hard to accept is that the Federal government alone made all the vaccine decisions that are now coming back to bite us. What is the point of having a national cabinet to discuss and make covid related decisions if lockdowns and restrictions are decided solely by states and vaccines are the exclusive preserve of the LNP central government? I would have thought that the expertise of all group members would have been utilised in the making of decisions. If not, what is the point of having the national cabinet in the first place. The system of government in this country needs a total overhaul. With 2 houses of legislature in each state plus 2 more at federal level, what little political talent this country possesses is spread far too thinly, not to mention the cost of paying high salaries to so many politicians.

Agree with most of your post and I am not defending Andrews as he has made quite a few mistakes that have been discussed but think he has learned from them. You might recall that I commended Gladys first time around but this time with her mock lockdown is quite farcical. She has lost control of managing the virus. Now declaring 'NATIONAL EMERGENCY', why? She is not doing the right thing by the rest of Australia.

The early numbers were concerning but what did she do? "If you can work from home do so" she said. Only problem with that she left all retail open for two weeks and retail staff can't work from home.

Still no real lockdown only certain suburbs, numbers are frightening and growing. 17 people on ventilators, 70 infectious whilst in the community.

Now asking for more vaccines. This isn't going to help her current situation as even if vaccinated, you can still spread the virus.

What a shame both states have poor political opposition party/leader.

 

[Maggie5]

Gladys looking for more vaccines from other states? Here was her previous position. Go about 3 mins in.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Gladys looking for more vaccines from other states? Here was her previous position. Go about 3 mins in.

Surely this comes as no surprise Maggie - our politicians hold power only at the behest of those with the power to command them - whatever the party they represent.