Each Club's Best Teams Since 1980

[RichLeMonde]

Best Combined Team since 1980
Wanganeen Scarlett Fletcher
McLeod G Jakovich Roos
Pe Matera Williams Voss
Martin Carey(c) Ablett Sr
Matthews Lockett Franklin
S Madden Hird Ablett Jr
T Watson Buckley Salmon Judd

Emerg: Blight Quinlan Goodes Dunstall

2nd XXII
Enright Silvagni Archer
Doull Glendinning Hodge
Flower Mitchell Goodes
Blight Kernahan N Riewoldt
Daicos Dunstall Quinlan
Cox R Harvey D Jarman
Brereton Bartlett Pavlich Ricciuto

Emerg: Akermanis Lloyd Dangerfield Fyfe

Will accept your 1st and 2nd XXIIs but reckon we need a 3rd

I'll put one up but admit it will be pretty lacking in players from the 80s

B. C Johnson Rance Grimes
HB McKenna Grant Bartel
C Bontompelli Fyfe Kouta
HF Cousins Pavlich Richardson
F S Johnson Lloyd Akermanis
Foll Gawn Dangerfield Swan
I/C J Brown B Johnson G Hocking Black
Emerg: West Sandilands Selwood Gray

 

[Blind Turn]

Will accept your 1st and 2nd XXIIs but reckon we need a 3rd

I'll put one up but admit it will be pretty lacking in players from the 80s

B. C Johnson Rance Grimes
HB McKenna Grant Bartel
C Bontompelli Fyfe Kouta
HF Cousins Pavlich Richardson
F S Johnson Lloyd Akermanis
Foll Gawn Dangerfield Swan
I/C J Brown B Johnson G Hocking Black
Emerg: West Sandilands Selwood Gray

I’m re-jigging my top 100 players at the moment and I’m toying with the idea of having Maxy Gawn higher than Cox. I’ve only got Madden, Cox and Salmon as rucks in my top 100 (Salmon is not the 3rd or 4th best ruck I’ve seen though as he is in there as much for his forward craft). This year Gawn enters that list and it will be with a rocket after leading his team to a premiership and might make my second XXII now.

I like your team. Not much I’d change. Pav already made the 2nd XXII, so I’d change that. Tredrea in perhaps. Pendlebury, Bradley, T Daniher, Schimma, Platten, Greig, P Kelly, Dougie Hawkins, Kennedy (Syd), Tuck and S Burgoyne would all be in the mix.

Maybe T Daniher for Grimes as he could play both ends and Greig for Kouta would be the only definite changes looking at this. And seeing as you’ve already acknowledged not including 80s players it’s hard to disagree with your selections (Grimes a bit of a stretch maybe when a blokes like Lake, Morris, Leppitsch, C Cornes, and even Geelong’s Stewart are overlooked if you’re keen on having the 3rd tall that is. I’d personally put Burgoyne in there from recent times and have just the 2 talls).

 

[RichLeMonde]

I’m re-jigging my top 100 players at the moment and I’m toying with the idea of having Maxy Gawn higher than Cox. I’ve only got Madden, Cox and Salmon as rucks in my top 100 (Salmon is not the 3rd or 4th best ruck I’ve seen though as he is in there as much for his forward craft). This year Gawn enters that list and it will be with a rocket after leading his team to a premiership and might make my second XXII now.

I like your team. Not much I’d change. Pav already made the 2nd XXII, so I’d change that. Tredrea in perhaps. Pendlebury, Bradley, T Daniher, Schimma, Platten, Greig, P Kelly, Dougie Hawkins, Kennedy (Syd), Tuck and S Burgoyne would all be in the mix.

Maybe T Daniher for Grimes as he could play both ends and Greig for Kouta would be the only definite changes looking at this. And seeing as you’ve already acknowledged not including 80s players it’s hard to disagree with your selections (Grimes a bit of a stretch maybe when a blokes like Lake, Morris, Leppitsch, C Cornes, and even Geelong’s Stewart are overlooked if you’re keen on having the 3rd tall that is. I’d personally put Burgoyne in there from recent times and have just the 2 talls).

I’d probably go Brown to CHF and add Loewe to the bench rather than Tredders because I don’t have a second ruck.

yeah competition for mid spots is pretty tight - hard to argue too strongly for any one over another out of the players you listed and my bench and emergency guys.

I picked Grimes as a back pocket because of his versatility. Not saying he is a better pure full back than Lake or Leppitsch but I’m not sure those guys could have had Charlie Cameron as a bunny the way Grimes has. Cornes was a more accomplished player and better all round player but if I’m purely picking a back pocket for a real game I’d still probably pick Grimes.

 

[Blind Turn]

Teams updated to the end of 2022.

Some changes to the Cats team to recognise the greatness of their current outfit. Smith to a wing might be contentious after a short time at the club but I like the balance of him there and as a NS winner to boot. Selwood from wing to centre in that case sees Couch to the bench. Cameron nudges Stoneham out of the XVIII. Tom Stewart is a worthy addition to defence. A very very strong team that is probably only overshadowed by the Hawks team.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I know we've had a pretty successful period (9 flags in the timeframe) but I did quite enjoy going through the opening posts of this thread, where the likes of Carrazzo and Scotland were being debated for the Carlton team whilst the Hawthorn side has a Brownlow medallist and MVP winner that can't make the side, multiplt dual AA's that can't make the side and Norm Smith winners that can't make the side.

Edit: 6! multiple All Australians didn't make the Hawks side, with an honourable mention to Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

to only made 1 side (but has been in the 40 man squad 5 times).

 

[Blind Turn]

I know we've had a pretty successful period (9 flags in the timeframe) but I did quite enjoy going through the opening posts of this thread, where the likes of Carrazzo and Scotland were being debated for the Carlton team whilst the Hawthorn side has a Brownlow medallist and MVP winner that can't make the side, multiplt dual AA's that can't make the side and Norm Smith winners that can't make the side.

Edit: 6! multiple All Australians didn't make the Hawks side, with an honourable mention to Jack Gunston to only made 1 side (but has been in the 40 man squad 5 times).

You’ve had it good, no doubt.

 

[Blind Turn]

Updated to the end of 2023. New entries to each team are bolded.

 

[eth-dog]

If I were doing Essendon's:

Wanganeen - Hooker - Fletcher
Goddard - Hurley - N Daniher
Stanton - J Watson - Long
Hird - T Daniher - Mercuri
Bewick - Lloyd - Salmon
S Madden - T Watson - J Johnson
Baker - Harvey - Thompson - Z Merrett

 

[Blind Turn]

If I were doing Essendon's:

Wanganeen - Hooker - Fletcher
Goddard - Hurley - N Daniher
Stanton - J Watson - Long
Hird - T Daniher - Mercuri
Bewick - Lloyd - Salmon
S Madden - T Watson - J Johnson
Baker - Harvey - Thompson - Z Merrett

Not a bad team. My views;

Merv Neagle was the perfect wingman and it was only with a heavy heart that I had to fit Zach Merrett ahead of him. Tough, graceful, explosive, and kicked pin-point over long range. Stanton is well behind him in my estimations and I like Stants unlike so many. In fact, Heppell has had a significantly better career when you consider how good he was at his peak.

Another surprise here Eth is both Merrett and Lucas being overlooked. I rate Merrett’s influence on our 80s juggernaut very highly although I have seriously contemplated slotting Lucas ahead of him on several occasions.

Harvey was such a good HB for us. Again toughness being blended with skill and composure. It’s what we have lacked in more recent times as a driver to success.

I can understand JJ getting an on-ball slot. I loved his way of playing.

Wellman every day, for mine, ahead of Goddard. Wellman continues to be under-appreciated for the point of difference and incisive versatility he gave our team. Having said all that I still prefer Harvey and Thompson in defensive roles in our defence at this point although Wellman could almost take Bomber’s spot he was that good. Admittedly, Goddard had a better overall career if you include his Saints peak years as well.

Who’s your 4 emergencies if you had to choose?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Enright Malarkey Scarlett
Stewart Taylor Bos
Dangerfield Williams Turner
Ablett Snr Mooney Chapman
Johnson T.Hawkins D.Clarke Snr
Ottens G.Hocking Ablett Jnr

Int : Selwood (C), Barnes, Bartel, A.Bews

Emg : J.Cameron, Couch, Stoneham, Harley

 

[Blind Turn]

Enright Malarkey Scarlett
Stewart Taylor Bos
Dangerfield Williams Turner
Ablett Snr Mooney Chapman
Johnson T.Hawkins D.Clarke Snr
Ottens G.Hocking Ablett Jnr

Int : Selwood (C), Barnes, Bartel, A.Bews

Emg : J.Cameron, Couch, Stoneham, Harley

My thoughts;

I’m still a big fan of the player Mark Bos was. Can’t fault having him in ahead of Corey.

I’m swayed a bit by players who have performed in finals and for that reason many of your early to mid 80s players are disadvantaged in my selections. Malarkey I remember being a very solid, reliable, undersized full back but nothing spectacular. Milburn’s career reads better and he was a finals performer. Scarlett, as possibly the best full back I’ve seen, also gets his due position that way.

There’s no chance I’d leave Selwood out of the XVIII. Nearly first picked. Williams had one great season at Geelong and you’d pick him based on overall career but Selwood is a club great.

Cameron has Coleman medals, goal-fest performances, team success, and uncanny skills to add subjective quality to the mix. I couldn’t put Mooney ahead of him now. Cameron has surpassed him.

Mick Turner is an interesting one. I remember his dash being often celebrated but I looked back at his stats and he wasn’t very prolific and didn’t have the team success to gloss his career. Smith is the perfect wingman and won a Norm Smith. I feel he just edges him. Plus, Turner finished his career as a capable goal-sneak which makes him a good interchange option for multiple roles.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

My thoughts;

I’m still a big fan of the player Mark Bos was. Can’t fault having him in ahead of Corey.

I’m swayed a bit by players who have performed in finals and for that reason many of your early to mid 80s players are disadvantaged in my selections. Malarkey I remember being a very solid, reliable, undersized full back but nothing spectacular. Milburn’s career reads better and he was a finals performer. Scarlett, as possibly the best full back I’ve seen, also gets his due position that way.

There’s no chance I’d leave Selwood out of the XVIII. Nearly first picked. Williams had one great season at Geelong and you’d pick him based on overall career but Selwood is a club great.

Cameron has Coleman medals, goal-fest performances, team success, and uncanny skills to add subjective quality to the mix. I couldn’t put Mooney ahead of him now. Cameron has surpassed him.

Mick Turner is an interesting one. I remember his dash being often celebrated but I looked back at his stats and he wasn’t very prolific and didn’t have the team success to gloss his career. Smith is the perfect wingman and won a Norm Smith. I feel he just edges him. Plus, Turner finished his career as a capable goal-sneak which makes him a good interchange option for multiple roles.

Cameron hasn't done enough at Geelong to go past Mooney. He had to scab a goal in the gf to get on the score sheet and disappeared for about 2/3s of 2023 when Geelong needed him most.

The only place I'd have Selwood starting is perhaps in Hocking's spot. He's not starting in front of Diesel or Jnr.

Diesel is one of the greatest players to lace up a boot, that second season he won the b&f and league MVP. He's one of my first picked.

Turner's stats are comparable with the two accepted best wingmen of the era in Greig and Flower, he's miles in front of Smith. Turner didn't have the team success because the rest of the team wasn't that good for the majority of his career and the club had no money, that's why they lost Diesel after 2 seasons.

I'm a big Milburn fan but I'm a bigger Bos fan and that's the only sport I'd fit Milburn into. The two b&f's sways in Bos' favour for me. Corey would make my second Geelong team, he's nowhere near this one, especially as defender which you seem so keen on shoehorning him into.

Malarkey isn't a necessity, he's an indulgence as one of my all time favourite Cats. But he wasn't out of place in his era when you had Dench, Moore and Southby running around and Scarlett can play tall, short and lose man.

 

[Blind Turn]

Cameron hasn't done enough at Geelong to go past Mooney. He had to scab a goal in the gf to get on the score sheet and disappeared for about 2/3s of 2023 when Geelong needed him most.

The only place I'd have Selwood starting is perhaps in Hocking's spot. He's not starting in front of Diesel or Jnr.

Diesel is one of the greatest players to lace up a boot, that second season he won the b&f and league MVP. He's one of my first picked.

Turner's stats are comparable with the two accepted best wingmen of the era in Greig and Flower, he's miles in front of Smith. Turner didn't have the team success because the rest of the team wasn't that good for the majority of his career and the club had no money, that's why they lost Diesel after 2 seasons.

I'm a big Milburn fan but I'm a bigger Bos fan and that's the only sport I'd fit Milburn into. The two b&f's sways in Bos' favour for me. Corey would make my second Geelong team, he's nowhere near this one, especially as defender which you seem so keen on shoehorning him into.

Malarkey isn't a necessity, he's an indulgence as one of my all time favourite Cats. But he wasn't out of place in his era when you had Dench, Moore and Southby running around and Scarlett can play tall, short and lose man.

Totally respect where you’re coming from for the most part. Williams, Turner, Bos and Mooney all have good arguments to be included. Bos is definitely in the frame to be re-included for my team.

The ones I won’t be swayed on are leaving Selwood out and having Malarkey and Clarke in the team.

I’m also a little stumped by the general lack of love for Isaac Smith’s influence on the modern wing role. He almost made the role fashionable again after many years without true wingmen. His stats stack up with the best of all time in that role, plus he did it on the biggest stage.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Totally respect where you’re coming from for the most part. Williams, Turner, Bos and Mooney all have good arguments to be included. Bos is definitely in the frame to be re-included for my team.

The ones I won’t be swayed on are leaving Selwood out and having Malarkey and Clarke in the team.

I’m also a little stumped by the general lack of love for Isaac Smith’s influence on the modern wing role. He almost made the role fashionable again after many years without true wingmen. His stats stack up with the best of all time in that role, plus he did it on the biggest stage.

I haven't left Selwood out, he's on the bench. Who does he replace in the 18 starters? I could probably be swayed to have him start instead of Hocking but he doesn't replace any other starter.

Danger was BOG in the 2022 flag. I like Smith but he's as soft as butter. I never even remotely considered him when thinking about this team

Clarke was a gun straight from the u/19s to the seniors. Averaged 21 touches and 1.5 goals per game over his career. In his second season as a 19 year old he averaged over 20 touches a game and over 3 goals a game in a team that only won 6 games. They're Leigh Matthews numbers except it took Matthews until his 8th season in 1976, a premiership season, to do it for the first time. In the time frame you've put in, in 1980, Clarke had 581 touches, the 3rd most in the competition behind Garry Wilson and Geoff Raines. Wilson had 631 touches and kicked 33.27, Raines had 615 touches and kicked 7.18. Clarke kicked 46.38.

 

[Blind Turn]

I haven't left Selwood out, he's on the bench. Who does he replace in the 18 starters? I could probably be swayed to have him start instead of Hocking but he doesn't replace any other starter.

Danger was BOG in the 2022 flag. I like Smith but he's as soft as butter. I never even remotely considered him when thinking about this team

Clarke was a gun straight from the u/19s to the seniors. Averaged 21 touches and 1.5 goals per game over his career. In his second season as a 19 year old he averaged over 20 touches a game and over 3 goals a game in a team that only won 6 games. They're Leigh Matthews numbers except it took Matthews until his 8th season in 1976, a premiership season, to do it for the first time. In the time frame you've put in, in 1980, Clarke had 581 touches, the 3rd most in the competition behind Garry Wilson and Geoff Raines. Wilson had 631 touches and kicked 33.27, Raines had 615 touches and kicked 7.18. Clarke kicked 46.38.

Clarke was one of the first Cats stars I remember largely due to that season in 1980. It’s a tricky one to assess a players impact to a side over a set period of time (from 1980 in this instance) when they have one stand-out season. For players who have already forged a career at that club prior to the period chosen, like Clarke, maybe you can be justified in giving him more leeway than say an Adrian McAdam at North who is nowhere near North’s best team despite one unbelievable season. So I guess it’s hard for me to assess Clarke based on one season that I remember when you have so many great players in modern times that gave you premierships and GF appearances. While I won’t put him in my Cats side I can’t really argue with you choosing him if your memories of him a still strong and maybe go back to his 70s career.

Williams is a more difficult one for me and like Bos, I’m not convinced he shouldn’t be in the XVIII. It’s one to ponder.

I also think it’s a bit harsh to say Smith was as soft as butter. He played well in many finals where softness would be quickly found out. It’s like saying Robbie Flower was soft because he didn’t bash and crash but we all know that wasn’t true.

 

[uranium_death]

Geelong
Enright Scarlett Milburn
Stewart Taylor Bos
Dangerfield Selwood(c) I Smith
S Johnson T Hawkins Bartel
Chapman Ablett Sr Cameron
Ottens G Hocking Ablett Jr
Ling Couch Barnes Turner
Emerg: Brownless Stoneham G Williams Corey
(13 players in top 100)

Firstly, great job. It takes a fair bit of work to look back and take the time.

Now. may take.

I would have Bairstow in there way ahead of Isaac Smith, Bill Brownless, or Greg Williams (not a Geelong great). Bairstow played 7 years in VFL/AFL but was in the AA team 3 times, and led the VFL in kicks in 1989. A player too easily forgotten.
I would put Corey in the starting team ahead of Bos. Could go between back and mid with ease.
Ablett kicked 82 goals in 1988 from the half-forward line but couldn't get the B&F in a team that finished 9th, with a defence that was hardly the envy of the competition. Bos got the B&F that year.
I would put Turner on the wing instead of Smith, every day of the week. Over 250 goals on the wing for more than a goal a game.

Smith's career at Geelong was way too short to consider him. His allegiance will always go back to Hawthorn when he's done - though he will look back on his time at Geelong with fondness.
Diesel likewise, except he didn't leave on great terms, unfortunately. I respected him a lot for attending Geelong's 150th Celebrations in 2009. He clearly has a lot of gratitude to the club for giving him an opportunity when Carlton refused to.

Bill Brownless was too inconsistent and aside from the 1990 to 1992 seasons, had no physical presence. 194cm but couldn't break through a tackle, could not lay a bump and were it not for his Footy Show career, he would hardly be considered a 'great'. Went missing all too often.

 

[Blind Turn]

Firstly, great job. It takes a fair bit of work to look back and take the time.

Now. may take.

I would have Bairstow in there way ahead of Isaac Smith, Bill Brownless, or Greg Williams (not a Geelong great). Bairstow played 7 years in VFL/AFL but was in the AA team 3 times, and led the VFL in kicks in 1989. A player too easily forgotten.
I would put Corey in the starting team ahead of Bos. Could go between back and mid with ease.
Ablett kicked 82 goals in 1988 from the half-forward line but couldn't get the B&F in a team that finished 9th, with a defence that was hardly the envy of the competition. Bos got the B&F that year.
I would put Turner on the wing instead of Smith, every day of the week. Over 250 goals on the wing for more than a goal a game.

Smith's career at Geelong was way too short to consider him. His allegiance will always go back to Hawthorn when he's done - though he will look back on his time at Geelong with fondness.
Diesel likewise, except he didn't leave on great terms, unfortunately. I respected him a lot for attending Geelong's 150th Celebrations in 2009. He clearly has a lot of gratitude to the club for giving him an opportunity when Carlton refused to.

Bill Brownless was too inconsistent and aside from the 1990 to 1992 seasons, had no physical presence. 194cm but couldn't break through a tackle, could not lay a bump and were it not for his Footy Show career, he would hardly be considered a 'great'. Went missing all too often.

Damn! I’m so 50/50 on the Bos or Corey thing that I’d just been swayed again to slot Bos back in ahead of Corey based on his specialist HB nous.

Smith played twice as many games as what Williams did, which included performing for your team in finals success. He was a great wingman and a club great as a result. Turner scored most of his goals when he transitioned to a forward role later in his career. Makes him a great bench option in my view.

Bairstow was in my first take on the Geelong side but as others emerged they pushed him out. I hadn’t really revisited the idea of reinstalling him but it’s worth considering. I always thought he lacked real impact at times despite racking up the possies. Does he replace Duncan? Maybe, although Mitch has been a great player over a long period now.

Billy is an interesting one. I remember almost leaving him out as there’s no doubt he under-achieved for his size and ability. But then you see that he had seasons of 81 (20 games) and 79 goals plus a few seasons where he took over 140 marks in a time of contested marking. Perhaps his under-achieving has blinded us somewhat to the quality he did reach.