Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Sydney v St.Kilda

[Joffaboy]

And Butterss and the board had absolutely zero to do with the whole train wreck of the sacking of Thomas?

I don't know the relevance of his sacking, I do know that he got himself appointed as coach at 500k large a year then sued the club he supposedly loves and got an extra 200k in members money into his kick.

Would have I sacked Thomas at the time? No way, but when GT talk about fundamentals, I think the fundamental of his drive is and has always been $$$$.

I suppose its too bad his dentist didn't get on the board, that would have had us flying by now.

 

[Mowman]

Same could be said about bringing in s**t salary earners with no interest in the club. Neither works. At least his culture first stuff got us our best era in my life time. I was actually proud of the club after his legacy. We’ve wasted 10 years already. We need to start straightening up soon or another 10 will drift by.

Yeah players played for the club and jumper during the GT Period it was good fun being a Saints supporter

 

[lewdogs]

Thomas is a clown who goes on the odd rant after we lose to get a few "right-ons" from the angry mob.

He had his time, coached the club with arguably the best list we've ever had and couldn't even make a grand final.

I know he's a passionate Saints man but at the end of the day his rantings are about him and not the club.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I find this thread to be quite disappointing, specifically in regards to the lack of detailed research and analysis pertaining to the topic of whether our 2022 on-field performance would be better/same/worse had we have taken GT's dentist on board.

Just throw away comments thus far!

Do better people

 

[MordySaint]

I find this thread to be quite disappointing, specifically in regards to the lack of detailed research and analysis pertaining to the topic of whether our 2022 on-field performance would be better/same/worse had we have taken GT's dentist on board.

Just throw away comments thus far!

Do better people

If you know the way committees work, its just about getting a voice onboard.

If there is no voice to the contrary then the decisions keep going along the way that they always have.

It was pretty obvious that the current board did not want a disruptor on board, they wanted to keep going along the current line without any alternative views.

 

[ScrappyDo]

He's a polarizing figure but GT is going completely ******* nuts on Twitter tonight. What is funny is that a lot of the current club big wigs follow him, so if they ever do use the platform he has had a few words to say about them too LOL

https://twitter.com/Thomo_Grant

He made a pretty interesting comment about David Rath doing too much in the box and being too influential to the decision making of the coaching group. I heard that same stuff back in March so either GT has a good sense of what's going on or someone is feeding him that info. Either way some of the stuff is along the same lines as what most of us have been saying the last few weeks.



Doesn't mince his words

I have long had a hunch that an academic annalist with no footy background was a very poor choice for Footy boss. Boffins have a habit of missing the forest for the trees.

 

[George]

I have long had a hunch that an academic annalist with no footy background was a very poor choice for Footy boss. Boffins have a habit of missing the forest for the trees.

Some of my favourite years supporting the Saints was that GT period. He was a Guerra goal away from a GF and if Maguire hadn't have been smacked in the guts early v Swans in 05 who knows.

I will say he is not the man for any job now though and I don't think he wants to be involved much either. I will also say whilst I might agree with his views on the club, he is doing a disservice to the club by spreading these kinds of messages. I suspect if he cared enough he would do it internally/privately.

Edit - You were talking about Lethers or Rath I take it, lol. Apologies.

 

[StCicatriz]

i dont think GT is the answer but i think the fact he's able to raise all these issues probably speaks to there being issues at the club. the performance we are seeing now isn't acceptable and the recent history of communication out of the club probably reinforces what we all know, things aint right. if you look at the last 10 years i think we've improved with each step but the improvement has not been great enough to really drive us into the top 4 to have a shot at a flag.

we are now in the same position (albeit slightly better) as we were under summers, finnis, ameet, richo and trout. we've stagnated. my greatest fear is we continue on the same path, extend Ratts for 2 years and waste the best years of Steele and co like we did with Jack Steven

9

Jack Steven

Age

34

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.8

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

and co.

i think we need a GT type but i dont think it's GT. we need what Roos did to Melbourne. someone who can identify the people needed to make the big decisions and drive improvement. someone who can turn the culture around into an elite environment. really turn the culture around in the football department.

right now it's miles off that.

 

[The Punter]

Part of the reason the Roos thing worked at Melbourne was he was appointed with an exit date. I would think Roos would be pretty much on his Pat Malone about accepting such conditions.

 

[Saint Shags]

Yep, lets rewrite history.

I highly doubt GT would have let Ball go for nothing. He also would have made him a star which he was capable of being.

Lyon actually started the destruction of the place after he walked out of the club leaving us all blindsided.

No but last time I checked, he played Ball injured. OP is a bitch but last time I checked GT overrode Training Services. A bit like when he played Kosi down at the Cattery when his back was screwed.
The ego on the bloke cost us big time.

 

[The Punter]

I don't know what the motivation or causes where (I suspect Ball took leadership very seriously and chose to play through 2006 when injured, causing long-term damage) but Ball was obviously hurt through much of 2006, played through it and was never the same.

 

[MordySaint]

No but last time I checked, he played Ball injured. OP is a bitch but last time I checked GT overrode Training Services. A bit like when he played Kosi down at the Cattery when his back was screwed.
The ego on the bloke cost us big time.

Kosi got 200 games out of his body and nearly won us a Grand Final with his ruck work on Jolly. This was years after Thomas.

All players play with injuries, when you speak to any player they say its pretty rare that they have zero niggles.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool, I also wish that Stan Alves had of put Steward Loewe in the ruck in the 97 GF.

 

[Saint Shags]

Kosi got 200 games out of his body and nearly won us a Grand Final with his ruck work on Jolly. This was years after Thomas.

All players play with injuries, when you speak to any player they say its pretty rare that they have zero niggles.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool, I also wish that Stan Alves had of put Steward Loewe in the ruck in the 97 GF.

Lol we aren't talking little niggles.

 

[George]

OP is a bitch

Well, I've been called worse

 

[luca77]

Arguing over unknowns is ultimately pretty pointless.
GT had a great squad, we didn't win.
Ross had a team that won 19 straight, we didn't win.
GT's team had some bad luck that arguably cost us, so did Ross's.
What if GT's team played more defensively/was more sensibly coached?
What if Ross had let players off the leash and play to their strengths more?
Doesn't matter, they're both on par with Stan and maybe Ken as 'almosts'.

I don't really understand attacking GT over mouthing off. We all do it too, doesn't really do any damage. We all know he's opinionated, so why gape like a fish and act all shocked when he does it?
I'd do it too if I was as invested as he has been in the club. He might have a few s**t ideas, always has - but he does have some good insights amongst them, which is why people bother to listen.

I dunno, this is the month of attacking our own I guess. We've been putrid, and everyone's pissed off and fed up. Hopefully the players show some personal pride and somehow remember how to play like professional footballers.

Have a good week anyway, everyone. Footy's just footy.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Some of my favourite years supporting the Saints was that GT period. He was a Guerra goal away from a GF and if Maguire hadn't have been smacked in the guts early v Swans in 05 who knows.

I will say he is not the man for any job now though and I don't think he wants to be involved much either. I will also say whilst I might agree with his views on the club, he is doing a disservice to the club by spreading these kinds of messages. I suspect if he cared enough he would do it internally/privately.

Edit - You were talking about Lethers or Rath I take it, lol. Apologies.

Yes mate I was talking about Rath. I agree with your points on GT but I also hope that someone at the club remains in contact with him for the sake of a contrary opinion. Court jesters served a real purpose and were also hated by most of their audience.

 

[gringo2011]

He cost us flag in 04 and 05 because of his ego and the fact he didn't train the player correctly resulting in multiple and continual soft tissue injuries.

Took Lyon all of 07 to get the list match fit.

Lyon has made 3 GF's, Thomas couldn't even get us to a Grand Final.

Thomas had a huge bunch of top 5 picks. No brainer, Kosi and Roo, No brainer Goddard, Ball over Judd, yup well done GT.

Which other egotistical clown could we come in to destroy the place. He is nothing but a wrecker.

That’s a myth. He pioneered getting Monash in to help monitor loads and doing sport science. We were just unlucky. Ross Lyon sacked all the players who were struggling with injury. His attitude was if you couldn’t get on the park you were off the list.

Joffa isn’t a stkilda figure head calling the club and it’s leading men out

He is a fan and a member. Voicing an opinion on a forum.

The best Thommo has done is nominate a dentist for a seat on the board. Doesn’t have the balls to step up himself.

He is completely irrelevant until he is willing to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

jwikked the players care. There are leaders. I’m very confident of that

The players and staff look lost. Culture looks terrible and leadership across the board looks insipid. It looks very unlikely that we play finals now and the excuses are already starting about how we knew we were s**t…..again.

If they don’t turn this around soon the club will be sailing head on into a shitstorm and they are going to have to find some strong off field leadership to stave off a spill.

 

[gringo2011]

Some of my favourite years supporting the Saints was that GT period. He was a Guerra goal away from a GF and if Maguire hadn't have been smacked in the guts early v Swans in 05 who knows.

I will say he is not the man for any job now though and I don't think he wants to be involved much either. I will also say whilst I might agree with his views on the club, he is doing a disservice to the club by spreading these kinds of messages. I suspect if he cared enough he would do it internally/privately.

Edit - You were talking about Lethers or Rath I take it, lol. Apologies.

I don’t want him back but I’m glad he’s poking them. They are a bit s**t and pressure seems to have got them most out of the most successful recent clubs.

Some of our fans like being s**t because stoic following of a pointless existence gives them an identity.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Arguing over unknowns is ultimately pretty pointless.
GT had a great squad, we didn't win.
Ross had a team that won 19 straight, we didn't win.
GT's team had some bad luck that arguably cost us, so did Ross's.
What if GT's team played more defensively/was more sensibly coached?
What if Ross had let players off the leash and play to their strengths more?
Doesn't matter, they're both on par with Stan and maybe Ken as 'almosts'.

I don't really understand attacking GT over mouthing off. We all do it too, doesn't really do any damage. We all know he's opinionated, so why gape like a fish and act all shocked when he does it?
I'd do it too if I was as invested as he has been in the club. He might have a few s**t ideas, always has - but he does have some good insights amongst them, which is why people bother to listen.

I dunno, this is the month of attacking our own I guess. We've been putrid, and everyone's pissed off and fed up. Hopefully the players show some personal pride and somehow remember how to play like professional footballers.

Have a good week anyway, everyone. Footy's just footy.

Its funny how people went to automatic attack GT mode and don't bother addressing whether the statement he made has merit or not. Guess that's the "power" of the internet.

For those who want to discuss it - what started it off was that GT said that he thought that "strategy" and "analysis" was being put ahead "commitment" and "effort" as the fundamental non negotiable's.

After the performance against Essendon and Sydney - I think he has a point.

Discuss (or abuse GT) whichever rocks your boat!!!

 

[StCicatriz]

That’s a myth. He pioneered getting Monash in to help monitor loads and doing sport science. We were just unlucky. Ross Lyon sacked all the players who were struggling with injury. His attitude was if you couldn’t get on the park you were off the list.


The players and staff look lost. Culture looks terrible and leadership across the board looks insipid. It looks very unlikely that we play finals now and the excuses are already starting about how we knew we were s**t…..again.

If they don’t turn this around soon the club will be sailing head on into a shitstorm and they are going to have to find some strong off field leadership to stave off a spill.

well said

there's literally no expectation now. that's the culture they've built. any target they said is then talked around and excused.

it literally is "it is what it is"

 

[George]

Yes mate I was talking about Rath. I agree with your points on GT but I also hope that someone at the club remains in contact with him for the sake of a contrary opinion. Court jesters served a real purpose and were also hated by most of their audience.

I think he is just a frustrated St.Kilda supporter, I don't believe anything he is doing on Twitter is having any impact on the club. He is entitled to say whatever he wants on his platform, and I agree with some of what he says too. But I think if you really wanted to help the club you would. He can do much more than get on Twitter and complain but I think he chooses not to...which is fine but it just makes the whole thing (his comments, attitude, etc) kind of pointless to me. He's not doing anything with the ideas he has for the club.

I don’t want him back but I’m glad he’s poking them. They are a bit s**t and pressure seems to have got them most out of the most successful recent clubs.

Some of our fans like being s**t because stoic following of a pointless existence gives them an identity.

I don't think he's making much of a dent at all. It's people that actually have a presence in the media that make a bit of impact IMO. Guys like Riewoldt getting on TV and calling us out is what people see. Twitter, and especially Grant Thomas' Twitter account, wouldn't get the kind of reach that would bother the club. Like I said to Scrappy, I reckon GT is just a frustrated supporter like the rest of us, the only difference is GT has the ability to instill some kind of change into the club (if it's needed). But he doesn't do that which is why whilst I agree with a lot of the stuff he says, it's all for nothing if he doesn't do anything with it. I think most of us would be appreciative of someone actively trying to improve the situation. I don't think GT does much of that (which is fine but just the reality of the situation IMO).

I don't think anyone of us like us being s**t. We wear loyalty as a badge of honour but I don't think it goes beyond that. I don't think one group suffers more than another. We all suffer. We all have lived through the same stuff as St.Kilda supporters. It's a bit of hysteria to me because whilst the recent performances have been poor, it's not a reason to go hunting for Bassat or the boards head. I think we have a lot of supporters waiting for us to slip up so they can then hold up their opinion of us being s**t as a badge of honour irrespective of how long they've had to wait for it. I'm not sure that's helpful to anyone. I feel like we have supporters who would rather be correct in their assessment of supporting a s**t football club than actually hope we become successful.

For many of us, supporting the STKFC goes well beyond just turning up at the football or cheering our players on from the stands. A lot of us are emotionally invested beyond just the couple of hours on a weekend and that could be for a number of reasons. For me it's one of the few shared interests or talking points I had with my old man and when he passed it made me love the football club even more. Which is also why I reckon people react in the way they do to hysterical criticism of the club, but that doesn't then mean these types enjoy supporting a s**t football club or are even accepting of mediocrity. I think we all support genuine & legitimate criticism because it can help the club improve and it's also good to read and listen to legitimate & genuine criticism to stop ourselves from blindly accepting a situation if whoever is in charge of the club at the time tries to pull the wool over our eyes.

I think Grant's criticisms and concerns are genuine and I could see the legitimacy in them. For the clubs sake I wish Grant approached the club about it instead of putting it out on social media. I believe there's far better ways to get those messages across if actually helping the club is what the purpose of the comments is for. It's unfortunate that he doesn't go directly to the club. I think there's a possibility that he could really help us if he wanted to. From a distance, because I personally don't want him inside the club, but I'm sure he has some pretty decent ideas that we could take a look at.

 

[Joffaboy]

That’s a myth. He pioneered getting Monash in to help monitor loads and doing sport science. We were just unlucky. Ross Lyon sacked all the players who were struggling with injury. His attitude was if you couldn’t get on the park you were off the list.


The players and staff look lost. Culture looks terrible and leadership across the board looks insipid. It looks very unlikely that we play finals now and the excuses are already starting about how we knew we were s**t…..again.

If they don’t turn this around soon the club will be sailing head on into a shitstorm and they are going to have to find some strong off field leadership to stave off a spill.

Wasn't a myth at all. The Monash thing was a travesty, he experimented with soft tissue injuries and our list was plagued with them because of this.

Lyon said when he got their he was appalled at the level of condition and in his parlance the whole list required 'meat and potatoes' on his players. needed the whole of 07 to get them fit. We were down to 26 fit players v the Hawks early in 07.

When is the spill happening, is it headed by GT? That would be hilarious.

 

[MordySaint]

well said

there's literally no expectation now. that's the culture they've built. any target they said is then talked around and excused.

it literally is "it is what it is"

Yes, that's the take I got out of listening to Lethlean this morning.

He said our early season form was exaggerated and we weren't actually playing that well early .... only playing well in patches.

Then said that Ratten hadn't actually been re-signed yet. Talks still taking place.

Which again is more contradictions to all the information given up to this morning.

At least we are hearing the "true" story from Lethlean now ..... or true at the time of writing.

 

[stavro#4]

That’s a myth. He pioneered getting Monash in to help monitor loads and doing sport science. We were just unlucky. Ross Lyon sacked all the players who were struggling with injury. His attitude was if you couldn’t get on the park you were off the list.


The players and staff look lost. Culture looks terrible and leadership across the board looks insipid. It looks very unlikely that we play finals now and the excuses are already starting about how we knew we were s**t…..again.

If they don’t turn this around soon the club will be sailing head on into a shitstorm and they are going to have to find some strong off field leadership to stave off a spill.

I don’t know what the future will hold.

So I’m not going to make outlandish predictions about finals and I’ve already made it clear not making finals from where we sat, when I argued that an extension for Ratten shouldn’t be given until the back end of the year. Would be a monumental failure.

However. Culture and leadership is the best it’s been since the Grandfinal seasons. Player development was a big tick 3 short weeks ago.

The boys have been slack across these 3 weeks. Not surprising that we have spiralled without someone like Dmac in that time who is the epitome of standards or that someone like Billings comes in and it goes to s**t, as he is someone that can’t lead those standards.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its funny how people went to automatic attack GT mode and don't bother addressing whether the statement he made has merit or not. Guess that's the "power" of the internet.

For those who want to discuss it - what started it off was that GT said that he thought that "strategy" and "analysis" was being put ahead "commitment" and "effort" as the fundamental non negotiable's.

After the performance against Essendon and Sydney - I think he has a point.

Discuss (or abuse GT) whichever rocks your boat!!!

The Essendon game lacked effort.
The Sydney game didn't.

The Sydney game lacked something else.