Training 2023 Pre Season

[Moral Decay]

Gresh injured regularly, Ross rarely injured. Not a great comparison.

Injuries if regular are a vital part of the comparison.
Is a player fit enough?
Is a player committed enough?
If yes is his body capable of playing at this level or in the position?
After 7 years it's no longer about potential, it's about what is delivered, you can be sure that if he is traded his fitness history will become part of the equation that determines his value.
The same will apply to any new contract we offer, clauses on games played etc.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Two major injuries in 2020, only lasted two rounds in 2021 then another serious injury this year. We can’t be in denial and just say “he’s not injury prone he just keeps getting injured”. It’s now a pattern.

I’m not saying I’d look to trade him but if he goes as a free agent after another injury riddled year then so be it.

Yeah sure if someone wants to throw the cripple a golden contract.

His main issue was the stress fracture he had in his back 2020 after playing every game.
2021 was his Achilles tendon, this year a meniscus tear and pcl. ( was he playing with a stretched pcl contributing to his menisal tear)?

I guess Lyon would be hoping that if there is any relationship between his various problems, that Misson can help sort it.

Not sure whether its as "simple" as injury prone. I think a PCL for example, is caused by twisting the knee.

By that sort of measure we should get rid of Max King who has already had an ACL and a shoulder reco.

 

[George]

Good players are hard to come by and expensive to replace. If you sell off a top 5 player you want to make sure you can replace them for equal or less. Plenty seem to think that every kid will be a star and that every decent player is excess every year. So far we are still waiting to find a handful of guns let alone excess.

I actually think guys like Seb Ross might struggle the most. He's coming off a fantastic year but he has struggled to commit to contests 100% of the time in the past. I think that there are elements of his game that Ross will love but he probably wants to make sure he's 100% in to every contest. No more standing off the pack and waiting for someone else to go get it. Playing as a more outside midfielder, the youth combining through are probably looking at that spot as well.

Can't see how you can criticise Seb for being outside, it was literally his role last season.

 

[Nutsngum]

Yeah sure if someone wants to throw the cripple a golden contract.

His main issue was the stress fracture he had in his back 2020 after playing every game.
2021 was his Achilles tendon, this year a meniscus tear and pcl. ( was he playing with a stretched pcl contributing to his menisal tear)?

I guess Lyon would be hoping that if there is any relationship between his various problems, that Misson can help sort it.

Not sure whether its as "simple" as injury prone. I think a PCL for example, is caused by twisting the knee.

By that sort of measure we should get rid of Max King who has already had an ACL and a shoulder reco.

He did his knee on the garbage surface of Optus oval. People on here were literally commenting that it was going to injure someone and then Gresh suddenly hurt his knee.

 

[tomjoad]

Here's a problem, while I agree with the general sentiment, is Gresh a top 5 player?
In the Trevor Barker Award
Gresh was equal 7th last year.
Didn't make the top 10 2020&2021
6th in 2019
Seb has won 2 and 5th last year.

We can all find a reason to keep or let go of a player, what we don't know is about attitudes and relationships within the club and the playing group these things and contracts will all affect how he is seen by the club.

If the past is any guide to the future and it may not be, Gresh and Hunter may well be told to find out what they are worth on the open market, they are out of contract at the end of the year and they have trade currency. Where they play in the future is also in their own hands, they may well take that option.

Remembering Bassat saying we are prepared to take a step back to be competetive in our pursuit of a flag. I'm prepared for poor results and losing players whomever they are.

It's also the nature of the industry nowadays too. Everyone wants to go to either the Big clubs, or those in serious contention. Player loyalty is pretty low on the agenda these days, and I feel that they're far more self orientated than in days past. That's just the way the industry has gone, and it only really affects us as supporters. It's not necessarily about us getting rid of good players, it's also about players wanting more.
I expect that there'll be teething problems with Ross at the wheel as the season progresses. There's been a soft underbelly to this list for a very long time. Casualties will be a given...it's not worth getting too attached.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Mitch owens was wearing 10, Pou was wearing 25, Jack Hayes 18 at training

Saw Keeler go up for a mark and injure his knee anyone know how severe?

Are you kidding? Number 10 guernsey curses Owens with injury.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

that's it, no more training!

I was right about the bubble wrap

 

[hangdog]

Injuries if regular are a vital part of the comparison.
Is a player fit enough?
Is a player committed enough?
If yes is his body capable of playing at this level or in the position?
After 7 years it's no longer about potential, it's about what is delivered, you can be sure that if he is traded his fitness history will become part of the equation that determines his value.
The same will apply to any new contract we offer, clauses on games played etc.

Yeah but not fair to compare their standing in B+F counts when one of them played half as many games

 

[plugger66]

Anyone seen/heard from plugger66 ?
Hes been quiet for ages - even through the draft period. Hope he’s ok.

I think he has just been drinking vb and eating chicken and chips and 3 dim sums thank you and a can of no sugar coke please. Also now follows the pies because he only follows clubs that have at least black and white in them.

 

[Grav]

I think he has just been drinking vb and eating chicken and chips and 3 dim sums thank you and a can of no sugar coke please. Also now follows the pies because he only follows clubs that have at least black and white in them.

They’re not edible plugs, so may as well give up on ‘em now.

 

[gringo2011]

Here's a problem, while I agree with the general sentiment, is Gresh a top 5 player?
In the Trevor Barker Award
Gresh was equal 7th last year.
Didn't make the top 10 2020&2021
6th in 2019
Seb has won 2 and 5th last year.

We can all find a reason to keep or let go of a player, what we don't know is about attitudes and relationships within the club and the playing group these things and contracts will all affect how he is seen by the club.

If the past is any guide to the future and it may not be, Gresh and Hunter may well be told to find out what they are worth on the open market, they are out of contract at the end of the year and they have trade currency. Where they play in the future is also in their own hands, they may well take that option.

Remembering Bassat saying we are prepared to take a step back to be competetive in our pursuit of a flag. I'm prepared for poor results and losing players whomever they are.

Gresham played 3 and 11 games in the years you are trashing him for not making the top 10. 6th in his fourth season. Hunter Clark and Coffield are in their 5th season. They should be under more scrutiny than Gresham.

Gresham is a free agent, he'd get us a pick at the end of round one if we were lucky unless he has a great year and is offered big money. He's the closest thing we have to Dusty and DeGoey. I reckon he'd be a stuff up if we lose him. It would be a huge step backwards.

Ross is a good player and a soldier but he's nowhere near Gresham on talent. if we can get Gresh right he's one of our few potential superstars. Ross was under fire because of defensive efforts a year ago. If he falls back in to that he won't survive Lyon's wrath. You have to be an exceptional talent to get let off effort under RTB.

 

[gringo2011]

Ease up gringo, No one's saying we don't like Gresham. I can't speak for anyone else but my reason is simple.

1 - Many players feel the best way to get past their injuries is to write a new chapter and move to a new club.

2 - biggest reason: I'm not sure how he will do in a Lyon-led environment and has not in the past struck me as a player willing to roll up the sleeves more than minimum requirement level.

3 - he's one of the few players we have whose external value approaches his internal value

He is a free agent. If the way FA compo keeps going the way it is his value would be a second round pick. I doubt we get anything close to his output with that pick.

 

[gringo2011]

Can't see how you can criticise Seb for being outside, it was literally his role last season.

I said it leaves him vulnerable to kids wanting that spot. I've defended him for years on here but think that his defensive efforts look like the shit that got Dal sent to the VFL at times. I think he looks like the type that could play the Clint Jones tagging role in a Lyon side but Windhager was doing that last year and looks like the future. Seb is unfairly targeted on here but I think he's the type that could be seen as a weak link or the old guard in our new set up. I know Seb was picked on in the media for his weak defensive efforts and Lyon would have seen those.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Yes. Greshams best work in the middle is using his elusiveness to find space and spark the handball chains. No reason why Bytel couldn't achieve the same result but using grunt to clear. Gresham close to goal and rotating through the middle is his best role IMO. Like Dylan Moore at the Hawks. He's going to be a great midfielder if they put him in the guts, but he will kick less goals.

How about Owens moves from his half forward role to gresh’s midfield role and gresh goes to half forward

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Injuries if regular are a vital part of the comparison.
Is a player fit enough?
Is a player committed enough?
If yes is his body capable of playing at this level or in the position?
After 7 years it's no longer about potential, it's about what is delivered, you can be sure that if he is traded his fitness history will become part of the equation that determines his value.
The same will apply to any new contract we offer, clauses on games played etc.

He’s copped 3 totally unrelated injuries.

The back stress fracture (most like due to gym workload)

The achilles (that was just a freak accident)

A knee (thanks to the shifting surface at the Perth Cow Paddock)

None have anything to do with his commitment or work ethic.

Its one of the more ridiculous things I’ve read on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think he has just been drinking vb and eating chicken and chips and 3 dim sums thank you and a can of no sugar coke please. Also now follows the pies because he only follows clubs that have at least black and white in them.

Thought the dimmies and chicken and chips might’ve finally gotten the best of you!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I said it leaves him vulnerable to kids wanting that spot. I've defended him for years on here but think that his defensive efforts look like the s**t that got Dal sent to the VFL at times. I think he looks like the type that could play the Clint Jones tagging role in a Lyon side but Windhager was doing that last year and looks like the future. Seb is unfairly targeted on here but I think he's the type that could be seen as a weak link or the old guard in our new set up. I know Seb was picked on in the media for his weak defensive efforts and Lyon would have seen those.

Ross is a bit of an enigma.

Clearance Pig/contested footy. He's OK but a level below the likes of Steele or Crouch.
Outside Mid. He's OK, but not overly quick, good tank though, his kicking has been ok if not spectacular, i think he's worked on it.
Tagger. He's good at it, but his target would need to be someone not overly quick. Jones and maybe Windhager could/can tag anyone.

He CAN rise to occasions when needed, he had 15 contested possessions and 7 clearances when we recently lost to Brisbane. That was a game we should have won, but Ross is not a guy we can accuse of not making the effort.

If he wasn't just so competent he'd get dropped for sure.

 

[FQFjt]

Ross is a bit of an enigma.

Clearance Pig/contested footy. He's OK but a level below the likes of Steele or Crouch.
Outside Mid. He's OK, but not overly quick, good tank though, his kicking has been ok if not spectacular, i think he's worked on it.
Tagger. He's good at it, but his target would need to be someone not overly quick. Jones and maybe Windhager could/can tag anyone.

He CAN rise to occasions when needed, he had 15 contested possessions and 7 clearances when we recently lost to Brisbane. That was a game we should have won, but Ross is not a guy we can accuse of not making the effort.

If he wasn't just so competent he'd get dropped for sure.

Agree with all that. The way I see it, if Ross is being kept out of the team then our midfield must be really firing.

 

[bird_man]

For the record, I think we'd be mad to let Gresham go

I just think he's be much better as a forward/mid than a genuine full time mid, where I don't think he'd ever reach the heights of an elite AFL player

 

[Barrels]

“LeT’s MoVe On GrEsHaM”…

 

[stavro#4]

For the record, I think we'd be mad to let Gresham go

I just think he's be much better as a forward/mid than a genuine full time mid, where I don't think he'd ever reach the heights of an elite AFL player

He should be in the Robbie Gray role.

Match winner up forward. Midfield spark when required.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

He should be in the Robbie Gray role.

Match winner up forward. Midfield spark when required.

Agree I think moving him into more midfield minutes contributed to his injuries. If he can remain injury free by playing that role its a win.

 

[Barrels]

Agree I think moving him into more midfield minutes contributed to his injuries. If he can remain injury free by playing that role its a win.

Windy and Gresh to swap in that half/midfield role (until the Poo is ready to join them)… Windy can start in the middle, Gresh forward.

Rather than hiding a mid there who won’t be all that effective forward, both of them are actually able to attack the goals.

Owens can play a bit deeper as a target too.

C: Hill - Windhager - Wood
HF: Butler - Sharman - Gresham
F: Higgins - Membrey - Owens

… works for me.

 

[stavro#4]

Windy and Gresh to swap in that half/midfield role (until the Poo is ready to join them)… Windy can start in the middle, Gresh forward.

Rather than hiding a mid there who won’t be all that effective forward, both of them are actually able to attack the goals.

Owens can play a bit deeper as a target too.

C: Hill - Windhager - Wood
HF: Butler - Sharman - Gresham
F: Higgins - Membrey - Owens

… works for me.

Poo off the bench.

No point not playing him without king. Just get games into him.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Poo off the bench.

No point not playing him without king. Just get games into him.

Nice in principle but Owens and Pou in the same side might be taking it a bit far. Without Max or Hayes they need to find some reliable goal kickers..