So How Dangerous is COVID Really?

[craigos]

So only 70% of people have had their third does and I'm not sure how many have had their fourth. The company I work for our still wanting to see any employees proof of vaccine which is completely bizarre to me when you consider my second and last dose was years ago.

 

[adogsfan5]

So only 70% of people have had their third does and I'm not sure how many have had their fourth. The company I work for our still wanting to see any employees proof of vaccine which is completely bizarre to me when you consider my second and last dose was years ago.

Just my gut, but I can’t see us getting anywhere near the %s we had previously.

 

[Jetafl]

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

First vaccination leads to less severe disease
Second current variant is more contagious but less serious in terms of illness
Third cruise passengers I think are more the older retirement set. So other passengers may have wanted assurance that people who are positive stay out of their common areas (and perhaps is company policy)
Fourth all you who gets about vaccination mandates can go and get ducked. Hard. Like off a cliff. Don’t ******* come to my hospital

Yeah people still are not grasping the narrative around vaccines equals not getting Covid. Thats not what it is designed to do. It's designed to keep us out of hospital. Your going to get Covid more than likely, that horse has bolted for most regardless of vaccine status. How many shots you have could determine how severe your symptoms are. Its not hard to work out. People need to stop pushing a narrative which is incorrect.

 

[Frank Bunn]

current variant is more contagious but less serious in terms of illness

Correct. Viruses becoming more transmissible but less virulent is part of their normal evolution. The Kirby Institute found that the prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the Australian population increased from 46% in June to 65% in September, but more realistically 80%. Then even higher by the end of 2022.

As most people have now had the virus, attention is now turning to reinfection. This study, published in Lancet, suggests the current variants are not particularly dangerous to either vaxxed or unvaxxed. 3,583 reinfections in non-vaxxed, 7,123 infections in Pfizer vaccinated - but no fatalities.

vaccination leads to less severe disease

This is probably out of date now. The Hazard Ratio for severe, critical, or fatal COVID-19 cases was 4 times higher in vaxxed than non-vaxxed. Vaxxed were twice as likely to be infected as non-vaxxed.

The overall adjusted hazard ratio (HR) for SARS-CoV-2 infection was 0·47 (95% CI 0·45–0·48) after previous natural infection versus BNT162b2 vaccination, and 0·51 (0·49–0·54) after previous natural infection versus mRNA-1273 vaccination. The overall adjusted HR for severe (acute care hospitalisations), critical (intensive care unit hospitalisations), or fatal COVID-19 cases was 0·24 (0·08–0·72) after previous natural infection versus BNT162b2 vaccination, and 0·24 (0·05–1·19) after previous natural infection versus mRNA-1273 vaccination.​

Protection from previous natural infection compared with mRNA vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19 in Qatar: a retrospective cohort study

Previous natural infection was associated with lower incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of the variant, than mRNA primary-series vaccination. Vaccination remains the safest and most optimal tool for protecting against infection and COVID-19-related hospitalisation and death...

www.thelancet.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

Correct. Viruses becoming more transmissible but less virulent is part of their normal evolution. The Kirby Institute found that the prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the Australian population increased from 46% in June to 65% in September, but more realistically 80%. Then even higher by the end of 2022.

As most people have now had the virus, attention is now turning to reinfection. This study, published in Lancet, suggests the current variants are not particularly dangerous to either vaxxed or unvaxxed. 3,583 reinfections in non-vaxxed, 7,123 infections in Pfizer vaccinated - but no fatalities.



This is probably out of date now. The Hazard Ratio for severe, critical, or fatal COVID-19 cases was 4 times higher in vaxxed than non-vaxxed. Vaxxed were twice as likely to be infected as non-vaxxed.

The overall adjusted hazard ratio (HR) for SARS-CoV-2 infection was 0·47 (95% CI 0·45–0·48) after previous natural infection versus BNT162b2 vaccination, and 0·51 (0·49–0·54) after previous natural infection versus mRNA-1273 vaccination. The overall adjusted HR for severe (acute care hospitalisations), critical (intensive care unit hospitalisations), or fatal COVID-19 cases was 0·24 (0·08–0·72) after previous natural infection versus BNT162b2 vaccination, and 0·24 (0·05–1·19) after previous natural infection versus mRNA-1273 vaccination.​

Protection from previous natural infection compared with mRNA vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19 in Qatar: a retrospective cohort study

Previous natural infection was associated with lower incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of the variant, than mRNA primary-series vaccination. Vaccination remains the safest and most optimal tool for protecting against infection and COVID-19-related hospitalisation and death...

www.thelancet.com

Your second quote only applies to those who have had infection; I don’t think there is studies about current variants for vaccination vs unvaccinated and previously uninfected (due to significant difficulty in recruitment of a study population and cost)

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

For those who think its dangerous still etc, is their a single reason why you are not demanding/advocating to go back into lockdown today? What possible reason could their be for wanting to live freely now but be in lockdown 18 months ago?

You can say the word vaccine all you want but reality has to look you in the eyes and see that with record death levels in this country, maybe it isnt enough and lockdown is still needed? So why not lockdown now?

 

[adogsfan5]

For those who think its dangerous still etc, is their a single reason why you are not demanding/advocating to go back into lockdown today? What possible reason could their be for wanting to live freely now but be in lockdown 18 months ago?

You can say the word vaccine all you want but reality has to look you in the eyes and see that with record death levels in this country, maybe it isnt enough and lockdown is still needed? So why not lockdown now?

Countries don’t have money growing on trees mate. We had to lockdown back then without a vaccine, but with the money handouts that came with it for those who couldn’t work, we were always going to have to pay it back in some way down the track.
Doing that all again would be financial suicide.
It would also cast complete doubt over the vaccine.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Countries don’t have money growing on trees mate. We had to lockdown back then without a vaccine, but with the money handouts that came with it for those who couldn’t work, we were always going to have to pay it back in some way down the track.
Doing that all again would be financial suicide.
It would also cast complete doubt over the vaccine.

Whats money got to do with health or science? Its a big goal post move to care about this now when it was a non issue 18 months ago. Fcts and stats dont lie. The stats are clear. We have record deaths. Why is money more important then life today when it wasnt 18 months ago?

Vaccine or no vaccine it wont change the record death totals we are having so im not sure if thats in this conversation in any way which I pointed out before. Its a irrelevant word when people are dieing in record levels. Is it a case that the record high death totals is a acceptable level of death perhaps?

 

[adogsfan5]

Whats money got to do with health or science? Its a big goal post move to care about this now when it was a non issue 18 months ago. Fcts and stats dont lie. The stats are clear. We have record deaths. Why is money more important then life today when it wasnt 18 months ago?

Vaccine or no vaccine it wont change the record death totals we are having so im not sure if thats in this conversation in any way which I pointed out before. Its a irrelevant word when people are dieing in record levels. Is it a case that the record high death totals is a acceptable level of death perhaps?

I agree with you 100% just FYI. Why does saving lives matter less now, is a fair question. And I actually posed this question a while back - people were very unhappy about others wanting to let “covid rip” through - but then once governments allowed it, the same people didn’t mention a thing.

But the reality is, we can’t just continue to lockdown. I think now in hindsight, lockdowns had many shocking flaws and consequences too which can’t be forgotten.

You also can’t expect people to stay at home and not work without the government needing to compensate them. That’s where money comes into it. Money handouts can’t roll on forever.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I agree with you 100% just FYI. Why does saving lives matter less now, is a fair question.

But the reality is, we can’t just continue to lockdown. I think now in hindsight, lockdowns had many shocking flaws and consequences too which can’t be forgotten.

You also can’t expect people to stay at home and not work without the government needing to compensate them. That’s where money comes into it. Money handouts can’t roll on forever.

Its more important to lockdown today then its ever been though. Not even close. The government should stump up and find a way if they are fair dinkum.

You should stay home and work with government needing to compensate them. Its still a pandemic. When they announce it is a endemic then you can go back to normal. Its 3/4 time, they are down by 50 points and they want to play with all 22 players on the field while the other team has 18 it seems. You cant change the rules while the game is still on

Monique Ryan can go on all she wants about masks but The answer is another lockdown. If that isnt the answer then the government needs to come out and say "it was never the answer, my bad" and perhaps the people who supported it should recognise this also. If you cant recognise this then by January 2, we should be in Stage 1 lockdown. Not doing so is wrong as it is ignoring the data coming in which seems dumb at best

 

[adogsfan5]

Its more important to lockdown today then its ever been though. Not even close. The government should stump up and find a way if they are fair dinkum.

You should stay home and work with government needing to compensate them. Its still a pandemic. When they announce it is a endemic then you can go back to normal. Its 3/4 time, they are down by 50 points and they want to play with all 22 players on the field while the other team has 18 it seems. You cant change the rules while the game is still on

Monique Ryan can go on all she wants about masks but The answer is another lockdown. If that isnt the answer then the government needs to come out and say "it was never the answer, my bad" and perhaps the people who supported it should recognise this also. If you cant recognise this then by January 2, we should be in Stage 1 lockdown. Not doing so is wrong as it is ignoring the data coming in which seems dumb at best

Not everyone can work from home. Millions of people would need to be compensated in order to continue affording living expenses and debt repayments. Bills don’t go on hold. Where do you reckon this money comes from and how do you think it gets paid back? It’ll smash us financially in the future. You need to be able to weigh everything up.

The horse has bolted mate. It’s rely on the vaccine and stay home when you are positive. Lockdowns would do more harm than good, surely we know this now? Not only does it cause a lot of harm but it would completely destroy faith in vaccines and the government.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Not everyone can work from home. Millions of people would need to be compensated in order to continue affording living expenses and debt repayments. Bills don’t go on hold. Where do you reckon this money comes from and how do you think it gets paid back? It’ll smash us financially in the future. You need to be able to weigh everything up.

The horse has bolted mate. It’s rely on the vaccine and stay home when you are positive. Lockdowns would do more harm than good, surely we know this now? Not only does it cause a lot of harm but it would completely destroy faith in vaccines and the government.

The horse bolted on day one then ? You keep bringing up the vaccine but it’s not a relevant stat. Record deaths has nothing to do with the vaccine or not. It’s record deaths. People are dropping dead in the streets like they feared.

You get the money from the same place you got it before. Adding a zero to your bill isn’t that big of a deal at this stage of the game.

 

[adogsfan5]

The horse bolted on day one then ? You keep bringing up the vaccine but it’s not a relevant stat. Record deaths has nothing to do with the vaccine or not. It’s record deaths. People are dropping dead in the streets like they feared.

You get the money from the same place you got it before. Adding a zero to your bill isn’t that big of a deal at this stage of the game.

Is your argument that you want to lockdown now or that there is an inconsistency to the governments views from 2020 and 2021 in comparison to now?

The latest wave has already peaked.

The 7 day rolling average of covid deaths is currently 30. Nowhere near the worst it’s been in the last 12 months.

Where are you getting “record deaths” and “people dying in streets” from?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Is your argument that you want to lockdown now or that there is an inconsistency to the governments views from 2020 and 2021 in comparison to now?

The latest wave has already peaked.

The 7 day rolling average of covid deaths is currently 30. Nowhere near the worst it’s been in the last 12 months.

Where are you getting “record deaths” and “people dying in streets” from?

View attachment 1579578

My argument is it’s one or the other. You either lockdown right now or announce it is a endemic.

 

[adogsfan5]

My argument is it’s one or the other. You either lockdown right now or announce it is a endemic.

Some are calling it endemic. And some are not.

Top German virologist says COVID-19 pandemic is over – DW – 12/26/2022

Famous German virologist Christian Drosten believes the coronavirus pandemic has ended and COVID-19 is now an endemic disease. And Justice Minister Marco Buschmann called for the last restrictive measures to be lifted.

amp.dw.com

You’re dreaming if you think the government is going to turn around and admit they made a mistake to lockdown in 2020 and 2021.

 

[adogsfan5]

My argument is it’s one or the other. You either lockdown right now or announce it is a endemic.

People aren’t dying in the streets and there is not a record number of deaths occurring from covid in Australia right now. You need to be able to prove those claims if you’re going to type them.

 

[Chief]

My argument is it’s one or the other. You either lockdown right now or announce it is a endemic.

Why does this announcement have to be made?

Who makes the announcement?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Why does this announcement have to be made?

Who makes the announcement?

It changes government policies and resourcing. If it’s a pandemic it should have more resourcing then it does now ie. Why does a pensioner need to buy a mask for ? If it’s endemic then it should get less resourcing ie. if you want a PCR pay for it yourself. At present we have the worst of both worlds

It should be the WHO but countries have ignored the WHO directives from day one so it should be the individual federal government’s

 

[Chief]

Where is this all specified?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Where is this all specified?

Oddly enough in the WHO policies we signed up too, but then have ignored a lot of their recent advice.

If it’s a pandemic. Then where is the investment in preventing it beyond what we already do for the flu?

 

[Chief]

Oddly enough in the WHO policies we signed up too, but then have ignored a lot of their recent advice.

If so, why is the only response to a pandemic a lockdown? Is that what the WHO says?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

If so, why is the only response to a pandemic a lockdown? Is that what the WHO says?

The WHO said to never lockdown and we ignored it. WHO policies dictate that during a pandemic extra resourcing be provided to the health sector and specific resourcing provided

Can you tell me what resourcing COVID has today that the flu doesn’t?

 

[Chief]

I don't know anything about it right now. Haven't been looking recently. Couple of vids in my YouTube subs page that I have been scrolling past.

WHO said to never lockdown

Did they? Where?

I'm only asking about all this because you're making some claims that clash with what I recall or what seems normal. I don't recall anyone saying that the WHO said never lock down in a pandemic.

 

[adogsfan5]

I don't know anything about it right now. Haven't been looking recently. Couple of vids in my YouTube subs page that I have been scrolling past.


Did they? Where?

I'm only asking about all this because you're making some claims that clash with what I recall or what seems normal. I don't recall anyone saying that the WHO said never lock down in a pandemic.

Back in 2020 they said they are not sustainable options and that they need to be used in limited durations.

In saying that, David Nabarro from the WHO said lockdowns should not be the main defence and was against the covid zero response.

Mixed messaging all round really.