Preview Brisbane Lions vs Sydney Swans, Friday June 16, 7:50pm, Gabba

[martinson]

This whole thing is so weird but what it does highlight is that Fagan was totally compromised in continuing to play particularly Gunston and felt they needed a better exit than anyone else gets when they get omitted.

It's the right outcome and who could mindread what's gone on behind closed doors as some think they can . The bottom line was that Gunston was cooked before he got here and he'd still be playing if we hadn't lost games. Then some statement about champions when it's unclear whether they're coming back or not. Who knows.

Whatever . We should cream the Swans with their injury list and a bit more run in our lineup. And a rocket up those still in there.

 

[Denno]

"Do Not Disturb"? Really?

(Serious question... I have no idea about basketball. Except to say I know that the table above is about basketball!)

"Did Not Dress" (ie, did not suit up).

Like your thinking though!

 

[briztoon]

Wow. Made the job easier for Fages I guess.

I’m late to the discussion, I know.

That smells of b.s.

I understand the intent behind it, but it’s b.s. and personally I believe it makes Fagan look weak.

Just say it for what it is, cop the criticism and move on.

 

[p4p1]

Gunston and Rich should be playing in the VFL to get back some form IMO, not having a training block. They play really well and get back into the team. Simple. This is how football is meant to work.

If it is lack of fitness that is causing them problems rather than age/deterioration, a block of fitness work is going to be better because so much of players' weeks have a focus on recovery from the weekends game. Then I agree that they need to come back at VFL level and work themselves into the AFL team, barring any injuries etc.

 

[Denno]

Lester had one badish game, the game before Adelaide but Gardiners return match was nothing to write home about and in the second half of last week the frees he gives away that result in easy goals that have been consistent throughout the last couple of years returned.

Gardiner was still better in the Adel game than Lester. I'm not saying there may not be change at some point - my point is that Gardiner in front of Lester for the Haw game (with Payne returning) was warranted (ie, wasn't a selection error).

In my view, he gets Franklin tomorrow night too. Lester isn't a good matchup for him.

Unless we promote Joyce? (which I doubt).

 

[M Malice]

After thinking about it for a while IMO Gunston & Rich were definitely "dropped" by Fages and the match committee, they discussed it with the players on Monday and decided then that they would be "managed" and do a training block(like Dangerfield last season), which both players understood and were fine with.

Fages presser this morning was an attempt (maybe a poor one) to deflect attention from Gunston & Rich and make them look good/selfless, IMO he was just being what he is, ie. not perfect but a genuine caring human being.

Fages can't win no matter what he does with some, what people have been calling for happens and he still cops it for the way it was done.

 

[Pride of lions]

I seem to recall that one of the players in a fairly recent interview mentioned that Gunston has been unable to train during the week. No doubt the coaches were hoping his football smarts and experience would still enable him to compete and perform at a reasonable level. Similarly with Rich who has obviously been struggling with leg issues this year. Obviously what happened last week demonstrated clearly that experience can’t overcome lack of fitness and it was time to make a move on both. And both players would have been more than aware that they weren’t contributing. So the idea of a training block is really an attempt to get them back to a reasonable fitness level so they can put themselves back into contention later in the year. Whether they manage this is probably doubtful, but I think it has been handled in a respectful manner rather than just being dropped and then not fronting up in the reserves for a number of weeks which would have attracted more criticism and speculation. I think Fagan was in a no win situation here but has done the decent thing by both players which would have been appreciated by the rest of the playing group.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I seem to recall that one of the players in a fairly recent interview mentioned that Gunston has been unable to train during the week. No doubt the coaches were hoping his football smarts and experience would still enable him to compete and perform at a reasonable level. Similarly with Rich who has obviously been struggling with leg issues this year. Obviously what happened last week demonstrated clearly that experience can’t overcome lack of fitness and it was time to make a move on both. And both players would have been more than aware that they weren’t contributing. So the idea of a training block is really an attempt to get them back to a reasonable fitness level so they can put themselves back into contention later in the year. Whether they manage this is probably doubtful, but I think it has been handled in a respectful manner rather than just being dropped and then not fronting up in the reserves for a number of weeks which would have attracted more criticism and speculation. I think Fagan was in a no win situation here but has done the decent thing by both players which would have been appreciated by the rest of the playing group.

Yeah I think it's been mentioned Gunston has been on light duties a fair bit. Rich too hasn't managed 3 games in a row this year without getting injured

 

[Elixuh]

This might be one of the most inexerpeicmed sides we have fielded for some time.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Yes give me a dog hungry intense hard at it player eg. Shaun Hart over a gifted/freakish lazy/laconic player eg. Jared Brennan any day of the week.

Our 3Peat team had players with both- Aker, Black, Voss, Johnson, Brown.

Even Lynch, in the failed 4th against port he tore his hammy in the first couple of minutes but still tried to take one out with him throwing big haymakers but at least trying.

 

[martinson]

I’m late to the discussion, I know.

That smells of b.s.

I understand the intent behind it, but it’s b.s. and personally I believe it makes Fagan look weak.

Just say it for what it is, cop the criticism and move on.

I'm in your camp. Makes them all look a bit soft and silly.

I just hope they're retiring unless Rich can get back to his 22 finals form. Gunston I hold out no hope for in terms of getting to a reasonable level.

 

[martinson]

This might be one of the most inexerpeicmed sides we have fielded for some time.

That's the interesting factor. I suppose people will draw immediate conclusions depending on what happens.

 

[SizeMatters]

I’m late to the discussion, I know.

That smells of b.s.

I understand the intent behind it, but it’s b.s. and personally I believe it makes Fagan look weak.

Just say it for what it is, cop the criticism and move on.

exactly. every man and his dog could see those two are cooked beyond repair. just suck it up Fagan. You made your call... you lost. Just like last year.

Now I reckon he will go ultra conservative in team selection. We will win at the GABBA and he gets the dopamine hit that he's the GOAT and will continue to play this old, slow team of plodders. Come finals time we get bailed out in straight sets.

I'm happy to be really wrong on this but i suspect the below is Fagans call.

OUT: Clugga, Rich, Gunston
IN: Lyons, Zorko, Fort

 

[martinson]

I believe one of the reasons if not the main one we recruited Gunston was experience in the locker room for our forward lineup. Despite the experience game wise of our forward line none of them are seen as having leadership potential.

 

[JasRulz63]

As much as I would love to see Lohmann come in for Gunston and Rayner to play the third tall, I can't remember the last time we played one ruck and two talls, while having fit tall forwards in the reserves.

 

[Gadzorks]

exactly. every man and his dog could see those two are cooked beyond repair. just suck it up Fagan. You made your call... you lost. Just like last year.

Now I reckon he will go ultra conservative in team selection. We will win at the GABBA and he gets the dopamine hit that he's the GOAT and will continue to play this old, slow team of plodders. Come finals time we get bailed out in straight sets.

I'm happy to be really wrong on this but i suspect the below is Fagans call.

OUT: Clugga, Rich, Gunston
IN: Lyons, Zorko, Fort

I really hope that doesn't play out.

Surely the young guys who have been sitting, watching and tearing up the twos get go.

It will mean errors on field due to inexperience, but we have created that inexperience. They aren't going to become genuine top 22 unless they get a stretch in the ones to settle in and really show what they have.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Well well well

I said way earlier in this thread this week was all about the coaching staff and how they would find something to spark the team as a group - FOUND IT.

Well done Fagan, however this is portrayed clearly Gunston and Rich were not performing. Now the race is on for the reserve graders. Let's assume no Rich and Gunston wont be around next year, no the young blokes have 2 holes to fill and contracts to win. Thank God, something to get excited about.

 

[Squizz89]

Is Zorko a lock to play tomorrow? I saw something earlier today which said he was on light duties on Tuesday (which would be weird after the week off last week), and Fages not confirming that he would be straight back in.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I believe one of the reasons if not the main one we recruited Gunston was experience in the locker room for our forward lineup. Despite the experience game wise of our forward line none of them are seen as having leadership potential.

Two year deal?

 

[MSB ROYS]

This might be one of the most inexerpeicmed sides we have fielded for some time.

Finally 'inexperience watch' is apt!

 

[Squizz89]

Presser for anyone interested (& body language experts out there).

Fagan: Both Guys are Champion Footballers

Chris Fagan provided an update on Jack Gunston and Dan Rich this morning, aswell as previewing a tough hitout against the Swans.

www.lions.com.au

 

[BrisVegasDru]

Well I for one was ecstatic when I saw the news, clearly it has been 'spun' but agree if they had said nothing and just dropped them and then not selected them in the reserves we would have all been wondering what was going on.

Maybe we can play Rayner out of the goal square, or rest a ruckman there if we start playing two? But it would be great to see some pace introduced, looking forward to seeing the team announced, as am feeling much more positive about our prospects again this year, now they have acknowledged the 'elephant in the room' and taken measures to address it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

"When you see the team tonight they'll be out managed, one of the great words that has just appeared in AFL footy in recent times," Fagan said.


"Both those guys are champion footballers.


"You want to give them a bit of time to get back to playing their best football, but they recognised it themselves this week.


"I'm very confident those boys will get back and play some good footy."


Fagan confirmed Keidean Coleman, last week's substitute against the Hawks after being dropped from the 22, would come in to replace Rich.

Which really does make it clear that poor selection and poor coaching cost us the Hawthorn game and probably the Adelaide game. People who have been watching the Lions have RECOGNISED IT FOR WEEKS - Gunston and Rich were being carried every week and they were holding out better players.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Haven’t we signed Gunston to a two year deal? He gets 14 games in and he’s cooked? Who is owning this brainwave decision to get him on our list.

This “training block” stuff is complete spin. Putting it on the players to count themselves out is weak. What is this all about? Saving Fagan from having to drop blokes. I’ve got to sixty years of age and followed football all my life and I’ve never heard this sort of stuff before. I actually think it is more humiliating than being dropped. Blokes get dropped all the time and they dust themselves off and play reserves and try to earn selection. Are we being told that both players are so cooked that they couldn’t even play reserves? Half way through the year their physical condition is so bad they are out indefinitely? What are the ramifications for our fitness coaches and medical staff? This is strange and distracting stuff.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Going back over recent history- we tried for another Luke Hodge when we recruited Birchall. Failed badly. Tried again with Gunston. Again a fail. Common factor- Hawthorn.

Lesson. Don't do it. There is only one Hodge in any one coach's career. Generally speaking, well-run clubs don't let good footballers go.

 

[dmac_55]

After a bye, Gunston and Rich should have been 'fresher' then pre bye. I was at the game and it was crazy how slow these 2 looked compared to the hawks spread.

Not sure a training block and not playing games is going to help either, but they both MUST play VFL and find form at least before getting games for the Lions.

No one is bigger than the club, set the standards across the board and everyone will follow. No more pet selections each week please.