Review Round 6, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Geelong

[briztoon]

Lyons had 11 disposals in a half of football.

In the Second Half Midfield Dunkley had 11 disposals and Rayner had 7.

Rayner had 14 for the entire game.
Ah Chee 13 for the entire game.
Tunstill 11 for the entire game.
Gardiner 10 for the entire game.
Lohmann 9 for the entire game.
Starcevich 9 for the entire game.

Lyons was not the problem.

Oh FFS give it a REST.

Yes Lyons got some ball. Because Fagan puts him where the ball is.

Gardiner played forward and did a hell of a LOT more defensive running than Lyons. The problem with Gardiner is that when he gets the ball in the forward 50, he immediately slows the play down looking to give the ball off to someone else to take the shot. This allows the opposition to recover defensively. Sometimes he's got to take responsibility himself and take the shot.

Starcevich plays a lockdown defensive role. He doesn't play on ball in the midfield. He's never going to be a big ball winner.

Ah Chee, Tunstill and Lohmann aren't given the same role and responsibility as Lyons, and aren't trusted by the coaching staff to play the same role as Lyons.

These comparisons are DISINGENUOUS and don't reflect the roles of the various players.

Rayner had a poor game, but he was playing as a defensive mid at times, behind the ball, and Geelong were kicking it over his head, or he was playing on ball, and honestly our mids kept getting in each others way half the night.

Yes Lyons got the ball but did f-all with it, as did most of our mids, other than turn it over. And He's STILL a LIABILITY off the ball. He had one decent defensive run for a half of football, otherwise he was a witches hat without the ball.

 

[Squizz89]

I don’t like shitting on Cam because he seems like a great clubman and teammate, but it is hard watching the likes of Reid, Rowell, JHF etc run around week to week and not be a little jealous as to what other teams got with pick 1, as opposed to us having Cam produce a great game every so often and pretty average performances in between.

 

[Gadzorks]

It’s a weird feeling that I don’t really give a * that we lost.

Kinda feel like I’ve mentally put a line through us for this year already.

I felt big feelings developing (can you tell I have very young grandchildren and am learning the language of modern parenting?) during the first quarter.

But by quarter time we were 2-5. We can't waste momentum like that and expect to win.

I figured we were toast so I just enjoyed individual performances, shut my eyes when we were talking a shot and was happy that the were very few cats fans around us.

 

[briztoon]

I don’t like shitting on Cam because he seems like a great clubman and teammate, but it is hard watching the likes of Reid, Rowell, JHF etc run around week to week and not be a little jealous as to what other teams got with pick 1, as opposed to us having Cam produce a great game every so often and pretty average performances in between.

Don't buy in to such regret.

There wasn't a star performer in that years draft.

Cerra and LDU had a long history of injury as juniors.

Brayshaw was viewed as a "safe pick". He's not on Rowell's level as an inside bull.

Cam's short comings were well documented. It's on our club to put him positions to succeed. The question we have to ask is, are we doing that?

 

[Squizz89]

Don't buy in to such regret.

There wasn't a star performer in that years draft.

Cerra and LDU had a long history of injury as juniors.

Brayshaw was viewed as a "safe pick". He's not on Rowell's level as an inside bull.

Cam's short comings were well documented. It's on our club to put him positions to succeed. The question we have to as is, are we doing that?

Yeah it wasn’t so much as to the players we missed out in that draft, as you say it was pretty average. It’s more the year we really bottomed out, we didn’t have one of those “generational” type players as a stand out in their draft pool.

You’re right though I’m not sure his development has been helped by playing him in a number of different roles, but on the flip side I’m not sure Cam has always put himself in peak condition to command some of those “more senior” roles either. To his credit he does look fit this year though.

 

[CarterS]

Tonight a little part of me died. I've probably been vulnerable since having a work related breakdown last year. My family and i went to the gf and another little part of me died. The start of this year football wise has been very difficult. Tonight proved to me that footy has wrongfully dominated my life for the last 45 years. Tonight i walk away from it.

Good idea to take a break mate

 

[Gadzorks]

Winless at the Gabba. What the hell is going on with this mob.

I've been thinking about that.

Are our players happier together on the road when there are no distractions?

 

[briztoon]

Yeah it wasn’t so much as to the players we missed out in that draft, as you say it was pretty average. It’s more the year we really bottomed out, we didn’t have one of those “generational” type players as a stand out in their draft pool.

You’re right though I’m not sure his development has been helped by playing him in a number of different roles, but on the flip side I’m not sure Cam has always put himself in peak condition to command some of those “more senior” roles either. To his credit he does look fit this year though.

Petracca spoke about this as well, I believe between his fourth and fifth seasons. He wasn't living a proper professional life, concentrating on diet, fitness, etc. And as a kid, he was waaay ahead of Rayner.

This might have to be a development year for the team. Playing Rayner in midfield and put up with his growing pains of learning a new role. Keep playing Lohman. Give Tunstill a solid block of games. Maybe bring in one of the young third talls later in the season.

 

[irel]

I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have already been said.

If we offer Berry a contract we would be fools, let him walk get the compensation and start blooding some youngsters. He can't kick a ball to save himself. Answerth has managed to reinvent his kicking in twelve months and this bloke has not advanced in seven years. Time to move him on.

The game has passed Lyons. Surely we now move on and start giving some opportunities to Sharp, Torrent, Brain, Reville.

Time to shake the tree.

Also time to accept that Rayner will never be anything more than an inconsistent average player who may occasionally exceed his own low benchmark. Unfortunately we struck out with our number one selection.

 

[Ceebee]

4 goals 13 behinds

Yep , pretty mind boggling really at our home ground .

 

[briztoon]

I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have already been said.

If we offer Berry a contract we would be fools, let him walk get the compensation and start blooding some youngsters. He can't kick a ball to save himself. Answerth has managed to reinvent his kicking in twelve months and this bloke has not advanced in seven years. Time to move him on.

The game has passed Lyons. Surely we now move on and start giving some opportunities to Sharp, Torrent, Brain, Reville.

Time to shake the tree.

Also time to accept that Rayner will never be anything more than an inconsistent average player who may occasionally exceed his own low benchmark. Unfortunately we struck out with our number one selection.

It's been said multiple times already, letting Berry walk for the compensation pick does nothing for us. We're not getting a band 1 compo pick for Berry. Possibly not even band 2. And, it will just get eaten up matching a bid for Ashcroft or Marshall. Or we trade it in to next year, and probably lose the pick matching academy bids next year.


Yes Berry was a turn over merchant last night, and attempted a lot of dumb kicks. But he was one of the few senior players to bust a gut and try and stand up.

Better coaching and instructions would have helped, team wide. And maybe Berry has a better game.

 

[CarterS]

When Berry plays well we play well. Last week vs Melbourne he was great. Brings toughness to the midfield that I believe we lack when he's not there.

 

[irel]

It's been said multiple times already, letting Berry walk for the compensation pick does nothing for us. We're not getting a band 1 compo pick for Berry. Possibly not even band 2. And, it will just get eaten up matching a bid for Ashcroft or Marshall. Or we trade it in to next year, and probably lose the pick matching academy bids next year.


Yes Berry was a turn over merchant last night, and attempted a lot of dumb kicks. But he was one of the few senior players to bust a gut and try and stand up.

Better coaching and instructions would have helped, team wide. And maybe Berry has a better game.

Berry appears not to have another level to advance. He has reached his limit. Take whatever compo is on the table and move on. Free up some space get some points start blooding new options.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeah it wasn’t so much as to the players we missed out in that draft, as you say it was pretty average. It’s more the year we really bottomed out, we didn’t have one of those “generational” type players as a stand out in their draft pool.

Well look at it this way, at least we didn't draft Paddy McCartin over Petracca.

 

[martinson]

Can we play Andrews, Lester and Gardiner back and Payne as a third tall forward? Gardiner is not working and I think Payne might actually do ok up forward.

Gardiner slows momentum every time he gets near it. Then if he gets it stands around for an eternity wondering what he should do with it.

 

[Squizz89]

Gardiner slows momentum every time he gets near it. Then if he gets it stands around for an eternity wondering what he should do with it.

Yeah you can certainly tell he’s not a natural hey. I get why the coaches tried it to try and play more of a defensive 3rd tall, but not only is the forward line not working this year, it’s not exactly setting the world on fire defensively either.

Time to revert Dizz back to defence if he makes the team. If they’re looking for another tall up there, see what Payne can do with a few games under his belt. He’s horribly out of form down back anyway.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

There was a moment late in the 3rd where Hugh had an opportunity to handball to Charlie and Charlie was out and could of run in for an easy goal.

Instead Hugh decided not to handball and got caught holding the ball and Geelong went down the other end to score a goal. That was massive moment in the game and Geelong had momentum from then onwards.

 

[Nathan Barley]

There was a moment late in the 3rd where Hugh had an opportunity to handball to Charlie and Charlie was out and could of run in for an easy goal.

Instead Hugh decided not to handball and got caught holding the ball and Geelong went down the other end to score a goal. That was massive moment in the game and Geelong had moment from then onwards.

Clug was probably our worst at adjusting to the conditions in term of ball use

 

[scoman]

I thought as soon as the 4th quarter started you could tell we weren't up for it.

Make of that what you will but to me that was very disappointing.

Its looking like the group as a whole have lost some hunger. That and our inability to adapt to anything in the coaches box or on the field, and this season is looking like a wash.

 

[Gadzorks]

Gardiner slows momentum every time he gets near it. Then if he gets it stands around for an eternity wondering what he should do with it.

I like what Gardiner is doing so far, but yes he really needs to build attacking confidence and to take the shot on goal.

Very hard to change long term habits, but think he deserves longer to develop.

He obviously had the off season chat like robbo did all those years ago - you have to change if you want to stay in the team. He is under enormous pressure. If he doesn't come good I reckon he will ask to be traded and revert to defence.

 

[Berrygood]

We didn't play the wet conditions well at all. We were bad infront of goal. We didn't tackle well. Really we were gone as soon as we lost Oscar.

Every player fumbled, slipped off tackles, had kicking shockers, made bad decisions. Picking out individual players to bag in the wet conditions highlights personal biases rather than legitimate criticism.

 

[martinson]

Its looking like the group as a whole have lost some hunger. That and our inability to adapt to anything in the coaches box or on the field, and this season is looking like a wash.

There have been stages in some games this year where our effort hasn't been up to par and we've just gone missing.

Maybe the message isn't getting through any more or we're not listening to the message.

But this is the salient thing I've taken from this year so far.

 

[buttermuffs]

I don’t like shitting on Cam because he seems like a great clubman and teammate, but it is hard watching the likes of Reid, Rowell, JHF etc run around week to week and not be a little jealous as to what other teams got with pick 1, as opposed to us having Cam produce a great game every so often and pretty average performances in between.

I mean we got McCluggage with pick three while Essendon struggle with McGrath not living up to potential. Shit happens. JHF literally left the club that drafted him first overall.

I’d stop looking at players through the lens of where they are drafted after 4-5 years and start looking at the talents we picked up in each draft as a whole.

We got Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich and Payne that 2017 draft.

In 2016 we got McCluggage, Berry and Big O.

The only player we got out of the 2018 draft is Answerth.

We got Kiddy, Dev and Prior from 2019.

We got Sharp and Smith in 2020.

Wilmot, Tunstill and Lohmann in 2021.

Ashcroft and Fletcher in 2022.

2018 was very disappointing. There’s a decent chance that Kiddy is the only long term consistent seniors player we get out of 2018/19/20 though Smith is obviously long term as a ruck prospect.

Overall, 2017 was probably our best draft haul.

 

[MacMum]

To be fair it has rained all summer up here.

Ok but did they regularly do match sims in it?

 

[Squizz89]

I mean we got McCluggage with pick three while Essendon struggle with McGrath not living up to potential. s**t happens. JHF literally left the club that drafted him first overall.

I’d stop looking at players through the lens of where they are drafted after 4-5 years and start looking at the talents we picked up in each draft as a whole.

We got Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich and Payne that 2017 draft.

In 2016 we got McCluggage, Berry and Big O.

The only player we got out of the 2018 draft is Answerth.

We got Kiddy, Dev and Prior from 2019.

We got Sharp and Smith in 2020.

Wilmot, Tunstill and Lohmann in 2021.

Ashcroft and Fletcher in 2022.

2018 was very disappointing. There’s a decent chance that Kiddy is the only long term consistent seniors player we get out of 2018/19/20 though Smith is obviously long term as a ruck prospect.

Overall, 2017 was probably our best draft haul.

Yeah good point. It’s an exercise that can only be performed in hindsight, but Walsh, Rowell, JUH, JHF, Cadman (would’ve been Will in an open draft) and Reid are all the top picks after Cam’s draft, which just highlights how top end that number one pick can actually be.

As briztoon said it probably comes down to a bit of development too both from the club and Cam’s perspective. Love him as one of ours, but shit if we could get the type of performance out of him on a more consistent basis that some of those other names have produced, we’d have probably won a flag by now.