Review Round 22,2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. GWS

[Nathan Barley]

Sack Dew and poach the Giants skill coach?

 

[CarterS]

I guess it shows that we're still in decent form and should be fine this week.

 

[Elixuh]

The other 59 point swing was again in GWS' favour just a few weeks ago:



GWS are 13th on the expected score ladder:

bAd KiCkInG iS bAd FoOtY tOm

 

[buttermuffs]

I guess it shows that we're still in decent form and should be fine this week.

That’s the hopeful positive of it. It’s not like how we went late last year against Gold Coast where we completely fell apart.

 

[Grasshopper17]

So this is what I'm getting at when I talk about energy.



Have a look at the video in this article. All the Carlton players sitting on the bench, feeling sorry for themselves, Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

with his hoodie over his head. They've all given up. And they were like that in the 2nd quarter when the game was still close.

Now contrast that with Dakota Davidson in our preliminary final last year. Comes off late in the third quarter, probably thinks she's missing a Grand Final, or worse, cost her team a chance to even make it. Bree Brock tells her to swallow come concrete, put on a brave face and she spends the whole last quarter getting around the girls who are coming to and from the bench. "We need you."

Of course there's a bit of "fake it till you make it" in all this. Nobody for one second is pretending that Daks is acting how she's feeling. But I can guarantee 2 things: (a) her constant encouragement etc to her team mates would have made a world of difference to THEM in that last quarter and (b) Daks herself would have got into a bit of a rhythm (as weird as that may seem) and it would have felt pretty natural to her by the closing stages of the game.

I know most of my posts are about numbers and analytics and other pretty dry cr@p, but this sort of intangible stuff is so important and can make such a massive difference. And we can do as much of it (probably more in fact) on field as we do off it, both home and away.

Hopefully we are able to bring more of this positive energy for the rest of our season, no matter how long it lasts and wherever it takes us.

No. Freakin. Sad. Sacks. Leave those to Carlton.

 

[martinson]

I'm not reading much into what we should've won by or how good we're still going.

We lost. Now it's imperative we win this week . It's a new set of circumstances.

 

[Grasshopper17]

What u couldn’t believe in that video which I saw on the program itself was how many off field staff Carlton had on the bench and in the box. Surely they have twice as many staff. Their box was stacked with people unlike ours that looks like it has 4-5. I thought there was a soft cap on off field personal related to the football department?

There is. But it's called a "soft" cap for a reason. The wealthier clubs willingly go over this cap and are happy to pay the extra resulting tax to the AFL.

 

[mpal6]

So this is what I'm getting at when I talk about energy.



Have a look at the video in this article. All the Carlton players sitting on the bench, feeling sorry for themselves, Jack Martin with his hoodie over his head. They've all given up. And they were like that in the 2nd quarter when the game was still close.

Now contrast that with Dakota Davidson in our preliminary final last year. Comes off late in the third quarter, probably thinks she's missing a Grand Final, or worse, cost her team a chance to even make it. Bree Brock tells her to swallow come concrete, put on a brave face and she spends the whole last quarter getting around the girls who are coming to and from the bench. "We need you."

Of course there's a bit of "fake it till you make it" in all this. Nobody for one second is pretending that Daks is acting how she's feeling. But I can guarantee 2 things: (a) her constant encouragement etc to her team mates would have made a world of difference to THEM in that last quarter and (b) Daks herself would have got into a bit of a rhythm (as weird as that may seem) and it would have felt pretty natural to her by the closing stages of the game.

I know most of my posts are about numbers and analytics and other pretty dry cr@p, but this sort of intangible stuff is so important and can make such a massive difference. And we can do as much of it (probably more in fact) on field as we do off it, both home and away.

Hopefully we are able to bring more of this positive energy for the rest of our season, no matter how long it lasts and wherever it takes us.

No. Freakin. Sad. Sacks. Leave those to Carlton.

Yep totally agree. I know some view even celebration as an overreaction but it's a game of energy. If players can't generate that amongst themselves to each other, it's a bit of a waste expecting it from the spectators.

There was Demons vs us at Gabba which they came close to pinching and there was another Giants game where they were 2 down on the bench. Almost all players on bench were revving everyone up and cheered for everything. That energy is very infectious and before you know it, they are all doing things on the field which they didn't think of before.

 

[mpal6]

Fages and the coaching group need to address the glaring issue of teams who run and spread with handball. It’s been an Achilles heel for so many years now.
Hawthorn and GWS have killed us with this through the season.
Yes, it’s a clearance issue too, but our lack of two way run is recognised by these teams and exposed consistently.
Both these teams will be in the finals. Both these teams we could play first week of the finals. We need a counter to this, straight kicking is a start and better clearance work.
Team has a lot to unpack in the review this week. Hope they are watching the hawks game too. Have speed, accuracy and unpredictability. Traits our plan A only game style struggles with.

I believe we have an answer of sorts which is try and make the contest even before the spread. But it can't be done with a Neale, Ashcroft, McCluggage mix in the middle.

We need Berry and Dunkley in their as a defensive stoppage pair and let 2 of the other ball winners to be around them.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Brain was on him. Problem is we don’t have enough lock down backs.

Andrews and Joyce struggled, Lester did nothing, Zorko got beaten, Wilmot didn’t use it great and Brain intercepted but played too loose at a crucial time

Need to get a small back in with a better balance

How did Noah go in the VFL on Sunday?

 

[buttermuffs]

Also interesting that GWS has won 5 out of their last 6 games while having less scoring shots.

As someone on twitter said, their luck will run out eventually but it’s just whether or not it happens this year or next.

Collingwood was in a position last year where they were great benefactors of winning games they weren’t expected to on expected score. Their luck has run out this year.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Also interesting that GWS has won 5 out of their last 6 games while having less scoring shots.

As someone on twitter said, their luck will run out eventually but it’s just whether or not it happens this year or next.

Collingwood was in a position last year where they were great benefactors of winning games they weren’t expected to on expected score. Their luck has run out this year.

I'm reminded of a famous (infamous?) finance quote attributed to the late John Maynard Keynes: “the markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”

 

[Nathan Barley]

Our superior finishing almost won us a premiership last year

If I had my way and behinds were only used as a tie-breaker and for percentage we would have won 13-12

 

[Tom14]

I'm reminded of a famous (infamous?) finance quote attributed to the late John Maynard Keynes: “the markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”

Key point here though: GWS skating by on their opponent’s accuracy in addition to their own good shooting.

We missed a heap of very simple set shots, hard to argue that was forced by their pressure. Most of the damage was the first quarter too, so can’t be our fatigue either.

St Kilda last year also benefited from extremely poor set shot kicking from their opponent - it’s why Wilkie got an AA jacket.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Not so much a review of Saturday's game but more of a thought bubble. David King went into this on 360 tonight but at a more superficial level, just remarking on it and its success so far...

This whole phenomenon of forwards deciding which defender they want to play on rather than the traditional reverse, is a relatively new phenomenon, and something not even (what I regards as) the best coach in the game, Sam Mitchell, was able to adequately counter 10 days ago, RE Jesse Hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

's 5-2 against Hawthorn.

So it's a level playing field as far as I can see - NOBODY in the sport has any experience in dealing with this, so as far as I'm concerned us plebs in the outer have no less right/ability to come up with a solution to this than any coach, player or footy media personality.

Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.

So any wannabe coaches, how would you deal with this as "defensive coordinator"? Obviously we're not playing the Giants this week but (a) we might play them in an upcoming final and (b) who knows, maybe Collingwood will roll out a similar strategy this Saturday with McStay and Frampton

 

[bungalow_bill]

We should try this - who should Daniher choose to play on

 

[Section 5]

Not so much a review of Saturday's game but more of a thought bubble. David King went into this on 360 tonight but at a more superficial level, just remarking on it and its success so far...

This whole phenomenon of forwards deciding which defender they want to play on rather than the traditional reverse, is a relatively new phenomenon, and something not even (what I regards as) the best coach in the game, Sam Mitchell, was able to adequately counter 10 days ago, RE Jesse Hogan's 5-2 against Hawthorn.

So it's a level playing field as far as I can see - NOBODY in the sport has any experience in dealing with this, so as far as I'm concerned us plebs in the outer have no less right/ability to come up with a solution to this than any coach, player or footy media personality.

Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.

So any wannabe coaches, how would you deal with this as "defensive coordinator"? Obviously we're not playing the Giants this week but (a) we might play them in an upcoming final and (b) who knows, maybe Collingwood will roll out a similar strategy this Saturday with McStay and Frampton

I don't know why we tried to find a matchup for Harris. Assuming we actually did.
Then of course what was GWS plan.
Watching on TV (like i was) you only get a glimpse of what is happening out of camera range.

If our plan was for Harris to man Hogan no matter what i think that was a mistake.
It appeared to me this was the case but hard to tell watching on TV so i could be wrong on that.
Andrews best games is when he plays a bit loose and backs his judgement when the ball comes into the defensive 50.
When he plays this way, he actually becomes a good defender knowing when to kill the ball or take an intercept mark.
I don't think Harris is a good defender playing that one-on-one role for large parts of a game.
This is why a few teams have tried a defensive role on Andrews. But that tactic does not always pay off.

If Hogan was trying to get to Andrews, and we did not want that matchup then Harris should wander way out of the goal square. Maybe up to 10 meters behind the CHF area.
If Hogan goes with him fine, the further Hogan goes up the ground the better.
Having 4 players going ring a ring a rosy in the goal square is very weird and not much point to the exercise.
Just wasting a lot of energy with defenders not concentrating enough on where the ball may come out of the center square.
If no one goes to Andrews i am also fine with that but i doubt the opposition would leave him on his own.
Someone else maybe but not Andrews.
Once the ball is bounced it should be easier for a defender to take up his usual role of team defense positioning.

 

[Sproj]

There were so many positives to take out of this game, honestly.

I reckon it is the loss that wakes us up to go up a level. We've been playing well obviously but not really anywhere near our best. It took absolutely atrocious kicking to keep them in it, really we should have won it in the first quarter alone.

Ashcroft looked absolutely amazing, best he has looked since his injury return, that's a great sign. We also have hopefully Hipwood and Payne to return but perhaps even more importantly, in my opinion, Reville. He is fantastic as sub and gives us a class player to inject late in games with a cool head.

Our forwards worked really hard to help defensively and our kids took ownership of the game early.

Play that game again on any other day and I'm sure we kick more than half those misses and we win by 20+. This is our premiership if we want it, there is no doubt about that in my mind.

 

[martinson]

There were so many positives to take out of this game, honestly.

I reckon it is the loss that wakes us up to go up a level. We've been playing well obviously but not really anywhere near our best. It took absolutely atrocious kicking to keep them in it, really we should have won it in the first quarter alone.

Ashcroft looked absolutely amazing, best he has looked since his injury return, that's a great sign. We also have hopefully Hipwood and Payne to return but perhaps even more importantly, in my opinion, Reville. He is fantastic as sub and gives us a class player to inject late in games with a cool head.

Our forwards worked really hard to help defensively and our kids took ownership of the game early.

Play that game again on any other day and I'm sure we kick more than half those misses and we win by 20+. This is our premiership if we want it, there is no doubt about that in my mind.

There's a doubt in my mind.

But I'm hopeful IF most things go right we'll be competitive.

 

[Sanchez365]

There seems IMO two simple ways to deal with the Hogan situation.

Firstly, we had both Joyce and Andrew's down there, so theoretically it doesn't matter who takes Hogan from center bounces in that situation. Both are KPD so Hogan isn't really getting a mis match, who ever is getting blocked should just walk away and leave the other to defend Hogan, can always swap after that first contest. Andrews could have easily ignored the contest in the goal square and just stood 15m out from goal, ready to intercept. The forwards are giving you a 1v2 so take advantage of it?

Secondly, as both are KPD, just push the kid back and move him away from the Hogan contest entirely. If you are Darren Joyce, just move the 180cm FP by pushing him back and literally moving him where you want.

Thirdly, how can you block / Shepard like he is doing 75m off the ball anyways? Forward line blocks like that have always been a pretty weird grey area of the rules. But a player literally taking his eyes off the contest to Shepard 75m off the ball? Seems like a free kick to me.

Still, don't mind GWS trying something there. Makes things interesting.

 

[Nathan Barley]

There seems IMO two simple ways to deal with the Hogan situation.

Firstly, we had both Joyce and Andrew's down there, so theoretically it doesn't matter who takes Hogan from center bounces in that situation. Both are KPD so Hogan isn't really getting a mis match, who ever is getting blocked should just walk away and leave the other to defend Hogan, can always swap after that first contest. Andrews could have easily ignored the contest in the goal square and just stood 15m out from goal, ready to intercept. The forwards are giving you a 1v2 so take advantage of it?

Secondly, as both are KPD, just push the kid back and move him away from the Hogan contest entirely. If you are Darren Joyce, just move the 180cm FP by pushing him back and literally moving him where you want.

Thirdly, how can you block / Shepard like he is doing 75m off the ball anyways? Forward line blocks like that have always been a pretty weird grey area of the rules. But a player literally taking his eyes off the contest to Shepard 75m off the ball? Seems like a free kick to me.

Still, don't mind GWS trying something there. Makes things interesting.

It's the same as what the Suns did last year putting King on Andrews

Wouldn't be as big an issue if we had Payne out there

 

[Dalions]

There seems IMO two simple ways to deal with the Hogan situation.

Firstly, we had both Joyce and Andrew's down there, so theoretically it doesn't matter who takes Hogan from center bounces in that situation. Both are KPD so Hogan isn't really getting a mis match, who ever is getting blocked should just walk away and leave the other to defend Hogan, can always swap after that first contest. Andrews could have easily ignored the contest in the goal square and just stood 15m out from goal, ready to intercept. The forwards are giving you a 1v2 so take advantage of it?

Secondly, as both are KPD, just push the kid back and move him away from the Hogan contest entirely. If you are Darren Joyce, just move the 180cm FP by pushing him back and literally moving him where you want.

Thirdly, how can you block / Shepard like he is doing 75m off the ball anyways? Forward line blocks like that have always been a pretty weird grey area of the rules. But a player literally taking his eyes off the contest to Shepard 75m off the ball? Seems like a free kick to me.

Still, don't mind GWS trying something there. Makes things interesting.

We get Payne back it becomes a non issue imo.