January 26th 2025

[aCunningPlan]

A cop out? Really? Please explain how my post is a 'cop out'

I did say some do not want to unify, not all. Of course the change the date advocates want a less divisive day, the majority of and probably more than 80%, but that's not the point though is it.

There's been continuous concession from some of the change the date crowd, that even if the date is changed, there'll still be wallowing on the negatives of past history, there'll be intent to bring up the negatives. This sort of attitude is counterproductive.

It's like saying 'Hey, let's unify, but we'll still express rage and anger at you non indigeous, coz we're angry but still give us everything we want'

Again, there's only a few that have this wish to hold lament, yet gets all the attention, coz media like to make noise and the angry exacerbate it social media, like here, and like our resident axe grinding op.

So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should'

Ok a bit of mayo there, but let's not pretend there isn't some indigenous people and non indigenous advocates that feel this way. Counterproductive, which ever way you boil it down and dissect it.

You accept changing the date would placate nearly everyone calling for change but focus on the eternally offended... something the eternally offended would do. Once the date is changed businesses and sport, even triple j would jump on and sing all things aussie. The tide would change.

 

[1990crow]

It sickens me the Indigenous People of this country are simply asking to feel heard and acknowledged for the ancestral history to the land, to become a real part of the country moving forward..

And conservatives of this country are spitting in their faces, as they've always done.

 

[Carringbush2010]

my commisserations. I wasn’t aware you were the victim here.

Never said I was.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You accept changing the date would placate nearly everyone calling for change but focus on the eternally offended... something the eternally offended would do. Once the date is changed businesses and sport, even triple j would jump on and sing all things aussie. The tide would change.

I do accept a date change, yet you're still not getting it.

Read both my posts that you have replied to again.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Never said I was.

This you?

"So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should’"

 

[Carringbush2010]

This you?

"So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should’"

Yeah and? That's not playing victim, it is what it is.

If you're gonna try and do a reverse victim card on me, I can see what you're doing, ain't gonna work sunshine.

Go grind your axe elsewhere.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Yeah and? That's not playing victim, it is what it is.

If you're gonna try and do a reverse victim card on me, I can see what you're doing, ain't gonna work sunshine.

Go grind your axe elsewhere.

"reverse victim card”? so you do know who the real victims are. You just choose not to give a ****. That's your right.

 

[Carringbush2010]

"reverse victim card”? so you do know who the real victims are. You just choose not to give a ****. That's your right.

Wrong again, if you read my posts you'll know I've acknowledged the wrongs.

That's not me 'not giving a ****' as much as you'd want it to be so you can grind your axe.

I'm just pointing out the uncomfortable, that if the date changes, some have conceded that the angst and lament will continue regardless. And some will want it to continue (like you) so you can continue your rage.

That's counterproductive.

Those that want that negativity to continue, I don't give a **** about, those who are genuinely willing to compromise to reach unity, I certainly do.

 

[liz]

willing to compromise to reach unity, I certainly do.

What does that mean/entail?

 

[Carringbush2010]

What does that mean/entail?

Well I don't know, would need to consult indigenous leaders to what they want, and hopefully they'd properly and genuinely represent what the majority of Aboriginal people want.

Then whatever those wishes are, the remaining public would have to cede and compromise through their elected leaders.

How all that works I don't know, I guess in short a treaty or treaties need to be reached, and to do that there'd have to be compromises. It's not my specialty.

All I'm saying is that the want for angst and lament to continue is counterproductive to that, even if the angst is definitely warranted.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Well I don't know, would need to consult indigenous leaders to what they want, and hopefully they'd properly and genuinely represent what the majority of Aboriginal people want.

Then whatever those wishes are, the remaining public would have to cede and compromise through their elected leaders.

How all that works I don't know, I guess in short a treaty or treaties need to be reached, and to do that there'd have to be compromises. It's not my specialty.

All I'm saying is that the want for angst and lament to continue is counterproductive to that, even if the angst is definitely warranted.

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

 

[liz]

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

We could start by formalising an elected body to provide indigenous Australians with a way to communicate their ideas to the federal government…

I was actually encouraged by Carringbush’s response. I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day, we can all live happily ever after.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

We could start by formalising an elected body to provide indigenous Australians with a way to communicate their ideas to the federal government…

I was actually encouraged by Carringbush’s response. I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day, we can all live happily ever after.

not at all. Treaty is the real game

 

[Goroyals22]

not at all. Treaty is the real game

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


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[South of the Yarra]

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

You seem an expert in the matter

 

[adammania9]

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

#1 highest tax payer paid indigenous peoples in the world. They have things very cushy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

Yes and yes, but it ain't simple.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day

Thanks Liz, and as I said, there's been allusion in here that even if the date changes the angst and lament will continue, from both ends.

How are we to unify if the few stubbornly want to grind their axe regardless and wreck it for everyone else?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

This sort of attitude doesn't help.

Immediately it's 0 to 100 with you, the money doesn't have to be wasted, it's only been wasted because the wrong people are not directing the funds correctly i:e not Aboriginal people.

If Aboriginal people had the proper input to how the funds are directed then we wouldn't have such wastage.

 

[liz]

Thanks Liz, and as I said, there's been allusion in here that even if the date changes the angst and lament will continue, from both ends.

How are we to unify if the few stubbornly want to grind their axe regardless and wreck it for everyone else?

Changing the date of Australia Day wouldn’t address any of the stark differences in life outcomes and expectancy. It would just be a signal that we (as a country) give a shit.

But then establishing an advisory body to give Aboriginal Australians a voice would have been such a signal too, and we failed at that.

 

[sherb]

Crap housing, crap medical, far too many resources soaked up by the ever bloating Canberra hierarchy, no time to recover and train after being sent to cover up the underfunding of civilian agencies during crisis, more jobs sent to crappier areas with no job support for spouses, desperately needed new equipment delayed or bought to lower specifications because a pollie listened to a lobbyist or cared more about an announcement for a marginal seat

They are probably bigger issues.

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And you haven't even mentioned - Harassment (sexual and otherwise) & bullying with resultant poor mental health outcomes and and all too high suicide rates - with insufficient support for all these issues.

That just screams to people "hey, join up"!

And Dogs_R_Us thinks it's the Australia Day discussion which is turning people off.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Changing the date of Australia Day wouldn’t address any of the stark differences in life outcomes and expectancy. It would just be a signal that we (as a country) give a shit.

But then establishing an advisory body to give Aboriginal Australians a voice would have been such a signal too, and we failed at that.

As a yes voter this really grates, the lack of positive campaign from labor and the bs simplicity negativity campaign from the lnp put it to bed.

If I were to fairly speculate, those who voted no (or the bulk of them anyway) did so simply because they felt a minority were to be given preferential treatment over everyone else.

Why not a voice to parliament for every minority group then? That was probably the feeling from Jan and Joe, not racism.

But hey, the perpetually outraged, largely not indigenous people, just have to express their outrage and of course 'Australia is racist!'

And then the phuqwit bigots 'tHey GonA tAKE houR LanD'

Nah that can GAGF as far as I'm concerned, feeling that a minority is going to get preferential over everyone else is NOT racism, no matter how much the axe grinders want it to be.

And indigenous people giving advice to parliament about how to improve their lives is not some sort of Armeggedon the bigots claim it be.

If the yes campaign was properly explained that this preferential treatment was necessary, and would likely make almost zero difference to Jan and Joe public, then it would've got up no problem, yet here we are.

But nah, the ahole media as always reports the negativity, and paints it as 'this how Jan and Joe see it', and the dumb phuqs from both fringe ends hyperbolise it on social media like here.

 

[sherb]

Changing the date of Australia Day wouldn’t address any of the stark differences in life outcomes and expectancy. It would just be a signal that we (as a country) give a shit.

But then establishing an advisory body to give Aboriginal Australians a voice would have been such a signal too, and we failed at that.

The thing is, if the date of Australia Day was changed, it wouldn't change one thing for the vocal "anti changing the date of Australia Day" brigade. Particularly if it were changed to another day in summer.

They could still buy their overseas made Australia Day merch, get their day off work, hold their barbie in the nice summer sun, get pissed, drape themselves in Aussie flags, chant "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi, oi", crank up Farnsy/Barnesy/Acca-Dacca/Chisel etc to full volume and so on.

For those inclined, any formal or organised Australia Day event could easily be held on the new date (eg citizenship ceremonies, public celebrations, concerts, etc).

So nothing would change. Not a thing.

The only reason people are getting their noses out of joint is that they are not willing to recognize that the current date of Australia Day causes pain to a significant (enough) proportion of the population and, because of that, they are vehemently opposed to any change at all which may ease that pain. To them, the Aboriginal population just needs to suck it up - which is just both selfish and completely lacking in any form of empathy on their part.

For me, I think Australia Day is a bit of a w**k anyway. Why? Because I quietly celebrate being Australian every day, as I have travelled enough and am aware enough generally to know how lucky we are in this country. I don't need a particular day of the year to be beating my chest about it. But that's just me and I don't deny others the right to celebrate.

 

[liz]

We don’t “need” an Australia Day for citizenship ceremonies. They happen regularly throughout the year. The vast majority of new citizens don’t become a citizen on Australia Day. I didn’t. I think it was in March or April.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The thing is, if the date of Australia Day was changed, it wouldn't change one thing for the vocal "anti changing the date of Australia Day" brigade. Particularly if it were changed to another day in summer.

They could still buy their overseas made Australia Day merch, get their day off work, hold their barbie in the nice summer sun, get pissed, drape themselves in Aussie flags, chant "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi, oi", crank up Farnsy/Barnesy/Acca-Dacca/Chisel etc to full volume and so on.

For those inclined, any formal or organised Australia Day event could easily be held on the new date (eg citizenship ceremonies, public celebrations, concerts, etc).

So nothing would change. Not a thing.

The only reason people are getting their noses out of joint is that they are not willing to recognize that the current date of Australia Day causes pain to a significant (enough) proportion of the population and, because of that, they are vehemently opposed to any change at all which may ease that pain. To them, the Aboriginal population just needs to suck it up - which is just both selfish and completely lacking in any form of empathy on their part.

For me, I think Australia Day is a bit of a w**k anyway. Why? Because I quietly celebrate being Australian every day, as I have travelled enough and am aware enough generally to know how lucky we are in this country. I don't need a particular day of the year to be beating my chest about it. But that's just me and I don't deny others the right to celebrate.

I'm hoping you've read post 1731