ANZAC Day vs Welcome to Country

[Frank Bunn]

ANZAC day is a bit like Remembrance Day but with a focus on Australians and Kiwis who died while in the military. Services are held at dawn on April 25th to commemorate the start of the Gallipoli campaign during WWI. The campaign was a disaster. Due to poor planning by British high command 8,700 Australians and 2,700 New Zealanders died. The campaign failed and those that weren't dead were evacuated eight months later. But it has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'.

Welcome to Country is a modernised, hypergeneralised and sterilised interpretation of some Aboriginal traditions. Some tribes had a ritual where strangers were required to make their presence known until accepted. Not all tribes had this ritual. Or if they did, if the person was not accepted they would be killed. But it has become seen as a ubiquitous, good-natured ritual.

Welcome to Country ceremonies are now being performed before ANZAC day events. Some people see that as an insult to the memory of those who fell - that they would need to be welcomed to their own country. Some people booed and heckled this year's Anzac day Welcome to Country. One guy was arrested and marched away. It remains to be seen what he is charged with.

 

[geoffjennings79]

ANZAC day is a bit like Remembrance Day but with a focus on Australians and Kiwis who died while in the military. Services are held at dawn on April 25th to commemorate the start of the Gallipoli campaign during WWI. The campaign was a disaster. Due to poor planning by British high command 8,700 Australians and 2,700 New Zealanders died. The campaign failed and those that weren't dead were evacuated eight months later. But it has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'.

Welcome to Country is a modernised, hypergeneralised and sterilised interpretation of some Aboriginal traditions. Some tribes had a ritual where strangers were required to make their presence known until accepted. Not all tribes had this ritual. Or if they did, if the person was not accepted they would be killed. But it has become seen as a ubiquitous, good-natured ritual.

Welcome to Country ceremonies are now being performed before ANZAC day events. Some people see that as an insult to the memory of those who fell - that they would need to be welcomed to their own country. Some people booed and heckled this year's Anzac day Welcome to Country. One guy was arrested and marched away. It remains to be seen what he is charged with.

ANZAC Day is also a day to remember all those who died, or survived, military conflicts. The march following the dawn service has representatives from many conflicts, not restricted to WW1, and in recent years not even restricted to Australian allies. People on all sides are victims of war. With a European heritage, I use it to pause and remember my 2 grandfathers who were conscripted into armies in WW1 that they were not culturally aligned with, also my grandmother who was murdered by German military in WW2, my father who was incarcerated and tortured at Dachau as a teenager in WW2 mistakenly as a political prisoner, and my mother, surviving grandmother, aunts and uncles who were traumatised by their WW2 experiences so much, they took the first opportunity post-war to emigrate to Australia.

 

[Gough]

ANZAC Day feels like it's having a bit of an identity crisis as the WWII veterans die out. We can respect the service of those who came after them but all of the wars they fought in were horribly divisive conflicts domestically.

 

[Ticky009]

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

I'm feeling very welcomed at this point.

Appreciate you but it's not required any longer.

Respect to my aboriginal brothers.

 

[dayisthemessiah]

The country voted No by a big majority. That should give you your answer

 

[geoffjennings79]

The country voted No by a big majority. That should give you your answer

Was there a vote about "Welcome to Country"?

 

[Hamingja]

ANZAC Day feels like it's having a bit of an identity crisis as the WWII veterans die out. We can respect the service of those who came after them but all of the wars they fought in were horribly divisive conflicts domestically.

WWI was a cluster all around. WWII there were clear good guys / bad guys. When you extend it to all conflicts you are getting in dangerous territory.

In the UK remembrance day is treated like Anzac day here, minutes silence etc before every game of football over the weekend.

Every year it ends in controversy at Celtic games. Celtic were founded by Irish immigrants so a large proportion of Celtic fans are still of Irish heritage. Surprisingly enough they don't take too kindly to being forced to observe a minutes silence for all of those that served in the British army yet it is forced upon them every year and people get outraged when they interrupt it every year.

 

[schneebly111]

Some people see that as an insult to the memory of those who fell - that they would need to be welcomed to their own country.

If you still think a WTC is “welcoming an Australian to their own country” then you have no idea what a WTC actually is. Educate yourself.

Btw the diggers actually did fight for a nation at the time which still committed sanctioned killings of indigenous people (which happened into the 1930s), which discriminated against indigenous people in every way shape and form from banning them from voting and to banning them from walking into shops and public facilities.

So yeah the diggers of 1910s would have been aghast at the WTC/AOC. But the nation has moved on from then. By extension the diggers also fought for a nation where women, LGBT and non white non Anglo Saxon citizens were also discriminated against, so should we honour their “sacrifice” by returning to the society as it was in 1915?

 

[schneebly111]

Every year it ends in controversy at Celtic games. Celtic were founded by Irish immigrants so a large proportion of Celtic fans are still of Irish heritage. Surprisingly enough they don't take too kindly to being forced to observe a minutes silence for all of those that served in the British army yet it is forced upon them every year and people get outraged when they interrupt it every year

Celtic are f**king legends. Makes me wish I was Irish. Big props for their support of Palestine too.





It’s moments like that that make me glad that sometimes sports and politics do mix. Wish some Aussie crowds could show a bit of passion at times

 

[Frank Bunn]

ANZAC Day is also a day to remember all those who died, or survived, military conflicts. The march following the dawn service has representatives from many conflicts, not restricted to WW1, and in recent years not even restricted to Australian allies. People on all sides are victims of war. With a European heritage, I use it to pause and remember my 2 grandfathers who were conscripted into armies in WW1 that they were not culturally aligned with, also my grandmother who was murdered by German military in WW2, my father who was incarcerated and tortured at Dachau as a teenager in WW2 mistakenly as a political prisoner, and my mother, surviving grandmother, aunts and uncles who were traumatised by their WW2 experiences so much, they took the first opportunity post-war to emigrate to Australia.

That's all very interesting and I'm sure everyone has got tales to tell about family members who served or died in military conflicts. ANZAC Day is a time to remember those family members and all victims of war.

But unlike Remembrance Day it also has a more symbolic meaning for Australia. ANZAC Day has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'. That concept is at odds with Welcome to Country, which depends on an assumption that Australia as a nation does not exist. That it's still divided by hundreds of tribes.

ANZAC Day and Welcome to Country don't belong together. Why should people who served and risked their lives need to be welcomed to their own country?

 

[Saint Shags]

That's all very interesting and I'm sure everyone has got tales to tell about family members who served or died in military conflicts. ANZAC Day is a time to remember those family members and all victims of war.

But unlike Remembrance Day it also has a more symbolic meaning for Australia. ANZAC Day has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'. That concept is at odds with Welcome to Country, which depends on an assumption that Australia as a nation does not exist. That it's still divided by hundreds of tribes.

ANZAC Day and Welcome to Country don't belong together. Why should people who served and risked their lives need to be welcomed to their own country?

Again. Please educate yourself. Welcome to Country isn't Welcome to Australia. It never has been.

 

[schneebly111]

ANZAC Day has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'. That concept is at odds with Welcome to Country, which depends on an assumption that Australia as a nation does not exist. That it's still divided by hundreds of tribes.

I’m an Australian born citizen with zero links to any other nation. I am abit ambivalent towards WTC, can see why they do it as I educated myself on it. As far as Anzac goes that has zero to do with my identity as an Australian. Zero. Zilch. Nada. And you aren’t more “Australian” than me.

ANZAC Day and Welcome to Country don't belong together. Why should people who served and risked their lives need to be welcomed to their own country?

As you’ve been told you need to educate yourself, that is not what a Welcome to Country is.

 

[beside the seaside]

ANZAC day is a bit like Remembrance Day but with a focus on Australians and Kiwis who died while in the military. Services are held at dawn on April 25th to commemorate the start of the Gallipoli campaign during WWI. The campaign was a disaster. Due to poor planning by British high command 8,700 Australians and 2,700 New Zealanders died. The campaign failed and those that weren't dead were evacuated eight months later. But it has become tied to Australian national identity. It’s seen as the moment when the young nation 'came of age'.

Welcome to Country is a modernised, hypergeneralised and sterilised interpretation of some Aboriginal traditions. Some tribes had a ritual where strangers were required to make their presence known until accepted. Not all tribes had this ritual. Or if they did, if the person was not accepted they would be killed. But it has become seen as a ubiquitous, good-natured ritual.

Welcome to Country ceremonies are now being performed before ANZAC day events. Some people see that as an insult to the memory of those who fell - that they would need to be welcomed to their own country. Some people booed and heckled this year's Anzac day Welcome to Country. One guy was arrested and marched away. It remains to be seen what he is charged with.

Well the neo-Nazis certainly agree with you, so there's that I guess.

 

[Dan]

The fabricated response was certainly interesting for the Anzac Day game.

You guy’s do know that the applause noise comes from the speakers around the stadium and like sheep….between a 3rd - half of the attendance joined in with the clapping.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

ANZAC Day feels like it's having a bit of an identity crisis as the WWII veterans die out. We can respect the service of those who came after them but all of the wars they fought in were horribly divisive conflicts domestically.

That may be true but it’s doesn’t lessen their service, sacrifice or the respect they deserve.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Was there a vote about "Welcome to Country"?

How do you think a vote on that would go?

 

[Gough]

That may be true but it’s doesn’t lessen their service, sacrifice or the respect they deserve.

Booing part of the official program because you don't happen to like it isn't showing their service much respect.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Disgraceful booing. You don’t like it shut the f*** up and keep it to yourself not boo at a time of respecting servicemen. Soldiers fought against fascists like that Hersant **** and his moronic mates

 

[cartwright]

Well Frank Bunn now it’s been explained to you - do you now understand that Welcome to Country is not welcoming you “to your own country” ?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Booing part of the official program because you don't happen to like it isn't showing their service much respect.

I agree

 

[Gough]

Well Frank Bunn now it’s been explained to you - do you now understand that Welcome to Country is not welcoming you “to your own country” ?

It's not "my" country either, it's a place I share with million others. If it wasn't for idiot patriotism ANZAC Day wouldn't even be a thing.

 

[revo333]

It shouldn't be booed but it also shouldn't go on for 4-5 minutes.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

It's not "my" country either, it's a place I share with million others. If it wasn't for idiot patriotism ANZAC Day wouldn't even be a thing.

Are you suggesting that ANZAC day shouldn’t be a thing?

 

[Gough]

Are you suggesting that ANZAC day shouldn’t be a thing?

Idiot patriotism was the reason we found ourselves in Turkey in the first place.