Autopsy Round 7 - St Kilda v Brisbane

[beside the seaside]

Dragging Hugo didn't change anything anyway- it was a dumb move, as the team still played poorly before and after. Jones picked up useful possessions, but nobody stamped themselves on the game for the Saints. When asked about Steele's game at the presser, Lyon didn't sound enthusiastic, just thought he did better. Got a few problems down there for the boys to sort out.

I thought Jones really improved us and had a huge impact. Disappeared again as the game went on but he made a big difference and was a huge part of us getting back in the contest in the second and third quarters.

 

[BrutThough]

Dragging Hugo didn't change anything anyway- it was a dumb move, as the team still played poorly before and after. Jones picked up useful possessions, but nobody stamped themselves on the game for the Saints. When asked about Steele's game at the presser, Lyon didn't sound enthusiastic, just thought he did better. Got a few problems down there for the boys to sort out.

How was taking off a player who was struggling to touch it and having zero impact for a player who immediately made an impact on the midfield dumb?

 

[SaintlyHymns]

It was clear that was an education for Hugo. Watching live, we had 2-3 mids sucked into the contest so many times with no awareness of Brisbane slipping out the side or front of stoppage. As soon as we fumbled or they got it out of the congestion they were away. Hugo is a ball hunter but paid little or no awareness to the oppo at stoppage. He wasn't alone there, by the way.

Losing clearance against a good side gives you no chance. Brisbane was amazing setting up behind the ball. Once we're in their territory it's nearly impossible to pierce through it, not helped by lack of tall presence for long kicks down the line and horrific foot skills through the middle.

We actually showed glimpses where we tried to link up and looked. The method is there, the execution is not.

Having said that, some insipid efforts locking the ball in or halving contests. Embarrassing lack of physical presence. Stocker was a one man band in that department. His work rate to help his mates and put himself in vulnerable positions is incredible. Hopefully plenty of those moments shown in review for his teammates to take a leaf out of.

Go Saints.

 

[sauce_head]

Wow. The melts are strong today, I know as I sometimes have a good one but this is extreme.

Summary:
Players plays shit and gets subbed by somebody that plays much better.
Coach tells player to perform better next time.
Media beat it up and everybody jumps on like it’s the worst move ever.

We have no strong in field leaders except Wilkie, so of course the coach has to make a statement. To be honest it’s far too late. For some on here no matter what Ross does it it wrong. For me, it’s exactly the right thing to do. It’s not everybody has fun under 10 footy, it’s the real world where you are judged on performance. Anybody who thinks Steele has been that bad is dreaming. Sure, Keller has been crap as well and well could have been the sub, but that would not have worked structurally (according to Ross).

But F me, the reaction to a basic and sensible move (even allowing for the risk of a subsequent injury, which obviously occurred) is outstanding. If Hugo is so small that he can’t recover from this then good riddance. I don’t think anybody is suggesting that and I bet he certainly doesn’t think that.

He’s probably fine right now, or working even harder.

Well coached Ross, more of it please and holding a higher standard should be standard until these players can do it themselves as a collective. More Ken Sheldon on Craig Davenport please until they demand the appropriate standards themselves.

My rant over.

 

[True Believer]

I know you need a mix. But it's as clear as day that Jones isn't a good footballer. We are banging our heads against a wall playing a bloke like him. What do we accomplish by gifting him games?

I don't think it's gifting games to Jones, it's plugging holes. We cannot simply throw all the kids in and hope, they will get slaughtered, way worse than what has been endured over the past couple of weeks. We need some seasoned bodies in there, and Jones is the "seasoned body" we have. He's a capable but flawed player, and I didn't check the stats, but someone mentioned he had what, about 18 touches in a little over a half? Until the kids can endure the physical toll of full seasons of senior footy we have to accept that we need to plug gaps in the short term, Jones is a plug.

 

[burntsnag]

Steele won't be here for our next tilt.

Hugo will, Ross is developing ruthless standards with his future players.

Hugo may have only played 16 games, but welcome to the big boys club. Hopefully this ignites the fire.

 

[gringo2011]

On the surface those stats r good and he runs all day but his inability to half a 1/1 contest when the games up for grabs is costly against any opposition . Go back and watch the replay there were at least 3 contest on the wing where he was outmarked one on one that they scored from.

He's not a contested player and never has been. He'll run all day and cover a heap of holes. If he was contested as well he'd be an absolute star. He works harder than most and does his role to a high standard. If 22 guys are able to do that you'll be in most matches.

Also gets marked down due to the fact that he can actually get to contests. Watching 15 guys standing still with no option a head of the kicker is what does my head in. Hill never does that.

 

[gringo2011]

Lucky BL missed chances in front of goal - could easily have been an 80 point loss.

NAS going to get his chance as a mid now (wonder if part of that is to help the contact talks?) - anyway he is the future and the current mix is miles off it. I like Windy but disposal was horrid today, tagging hasn’t been great and doesn’t get enough of it as an attacking option. To the backline it is but if he doesn’t tidy up his disposal asap I think Sandy beckons.

Wilks was excellent and Howard seemed to help down back (& I’m not a big fan). Stocker tried his heart out.

Tough on Hugo but he was clearly not doing something he was asked to. Wilson not far away from a reprogram @ Sandy.

Probably time to give Boxshall a go. Don’t think anyone else @ Sandy is ready - Viking probably not just yet given interrupted pre season but another game or 2 where he gets a bit of it he certainly would be close; Ari - needs to keep working on his deficiencies; TT - maybe

Higgo - electric - if we could isolate him and give some consistent quality supply he could be a 4 to 5 goal/game player Clearly covering the ground better than he ever has.

Thought Mitch tried. I really can’t be too hard on the forwards - quality and quantity of entries very poor.

Roma much better today - though maybe Boyd would help him and he could spend more time forward - I know we have been over this before but maybe we need to give it a go.

Very flat - confidence and system lacking - coaches have a challenge.

Now umpiring - if that’s the best the AFL have got heaven help us! BL a much better team but the umpires drained away any momentum or hope we had and the players were clearly frustrated.

I don't think we are miles off as you think. We cut back the depth this year and went younger and look a mid ladder side still. Players to come back and found another few young players.

Getting Nas on ball looks like an absolute winner. Sides are shutting down our run off HB so we made him dangerous out of the centre.

Phillipou and Nas could be like having a couple of Bonts in the side.

 

[Joffaboy]

Sitting in a resort in Phucket. Don't see the attraction, humid as ****, traffic worse than a Dan Andrews infrastructure project, Russians everywhere being, well Russian, plastic all over the beach.....


....and it still sounds better than yesterday at Marvel.

 

[gringo2011]

At the end of the day, it doesn't look like we have improved much once again. As good as jones was coming on, we just have to cut the dead wood and play kids who are gonna take us forward.
You cannot question windys endeavour and attack, but his foot skills are deplorable.
Macrae has come back down to earth with a thud, we look awful with him and Steele in the same midfield. Steele was better today.
NAS must simply just play as a pure mid from here in. He might get taught some lessons, but he is our most dynamic player.
Caminiti needs to be settled back, he is an awful forward. In saying that, Sharman provided little today, and keeler needs another preseason. Bring trav in for wood next week, and give macrae a rest for boxshall. If the Viking can back up his excellent game today again next week, he also needs a look in.

If King is going to be fragile I think pumping games into Hammer forward is a smart investment with Howard back. He's going at a goal a game as a young KPF which is the same as most of the best FFs at the same age.

If you want players to hit the ground running you do what Collingwood did and load up on recycled old guys. Otherwise you take the good and the bad inconsistencies of youth.

 

[gringo2011]

Sitting in a resort in Phucket. Don't see the attraction, humid as ****, traffic worse than a Dan Andrews infrastructure project, Russians everywhere being, well Russian, plastic all over the beach.....


....and it still sounds better than yesterday at Marvel.

Phuket is a bit of a hole but the islands are nice. Get out of the resort for a bit.

 

[gringo2011]

Hall looks to he one of the smartest players in the squad. Why we haven't given him a run in the midfield over the last 2 weeks is beyond. Has played midfield before for Boxhill before we drafted him

When I heard that we were looking at him I watched BHHs. He seemed to play exactly like he does now. A high HF that moves up the ground with the play. More like a wingman in the forward line than a centre square mid. Maybe he played more midfield that I didn't see though.

He's taken the role Membrey played over the last 4 years or so IMO. He's kicking a lesser score so far but his link up play looks a bit better and he's quite accountable. He seems to have a bit of class about him. He already looks like he's played 100 games. Seems a solid composed type.

 

[Joffaboy]

Phuket is a bit of a hole but the islands are nice. Get out of the resort for a bit.

Yeah only here for a friends birthday, Sumatra next week which is the polar opposite to this place. Will get out to the islands later on.
Five Saints supporters here as well in the group. All of us with the same grievances

 

[Saintbloke]

How was taking off a player who was struggling to touch it and having zero impact for a player who immediately made an impact on the midfield dumb?

Hugo had 23 mins of game time, got hands on the ball. A coach needs to just bench him, have a stern word in his ear about what he is doing wrong and put him back on.

Been a while since a young inexperienced player has to wear the brunt of a cr^p team performance after one and a half quarters of a game. Might be worth looking at Steele's poor defensive game against his opponent in Neale if the coach needed to blast someone.

Just a poor look from Lyon, considering our senior players have been letting us down recently.

 

[gringo2011]

Watching that live was painful. So many turnovers when they just didn’t kick it to the first option.

stocker is a warrior.

Brisbane pressured us and we went to water. We aren't catching sides napping anymore and they have shut down Macrae, Sincs and Nas which destroys our attack off HB and our clearance competitiveness.

The Dogs set up well against us last week and the Lions tried to copy what worked. We managed to get it out in space a bit easier but we often were our own worst enemies with skill errors stuffing up our momentum.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah only here for a friends birthday, Sumatra next week which is the polar opposite to this place. Will get out to the islands later on.
Five Saints supporters here as well in the group. All of us with the same grievances

At least you're not missing much being away.

 

[gringo2011]

Pou I’m not expecting lots from. Maybe 20 possession type games like windy. He won’t save us. We need the Macrae of the first few weeks and Steele of a couple years ago

What you get with another good mid in is that if they man Macrae up it leaves Phillipou with an unaccountable or looser mid on him. It helps him develop as much as anything.

 

[gringo2011]

That was not a happy Lyon
I’m going early - we’ll roll Freo …big bodied sides last 2 weeks hurt us …their mid make up is a bit different….very good but I think we’ll match up ok

They are young and inconsistent. Their best will roll us but at home and with angry Ross wanting blood we are in with a chance.

 

[BrutThough]

Hugo had 23 mins of game time, got hands on the ball. A coach needs to just bench him, have a stern word in his ear about what he is doing wrong and put him back on.

Been a while since a young inexperienced player has to wear the brunt of a cr^p team performance after one and a half quarters of a game. Might be worth looking at Steele's poor defensive game against his opponent in Neale if the coach needed to blast someone.

Just a poor look from Lyon, considering our senior players have been letting us down recently.

Footage shows Ross did have a stern word to him at some point in the first quarter. I'd wager a guess that nothing changed after that stern word, hence why he was subbed off so early in the game.

Regardless of age and experience, if you arent performing your role and not responding to direct criticism then you warrant being subbed off. This is not a 'poor Hugo' situation like many are presenting it is.

 

[holllywood]

Not sure the second part of that is true. He had 4 disposals in a quarter and a half and I’m pretty sure they said in commentary that his opponent had had something like 7 disposals in 8 minutes, just prior to him being subbed off.

We were getting slaughtered in the midfield and the game was getting away from us and we obviously believed we needed to make a change in there, so he was the one to go.

He was lining up on the forward flank.

Would have subbed Windy off over Garcia. Windy with an all time poor performance with

Not sure the second part of that is true. He had 4 disposals in a quarter and a half and I’m pretty sure they said in commentary that his opponent had had something like 7 disposals in 8 minutes, just prior to him being subbed off.

We were getting slaughtered in the midfield and the game was getting away from us and we obviously believed we needed to make a change in there, so he was the one to go.

Garcia was playing the stay forward mid role. Hard to get into the game in this role when we concede 26 inside 50s to 9 in the first quarter.

Windy was way worse. Was a liability on and off the ball.

 

[Saints TV]

He was lining up on the forward flank.

Would have subbed Windy off over Garcia. Windy with an all time poor performance with


Garcia was playing the stay forward mid role. Hard to get into the game in this role when we concede 26 inside 50s to 9 in the first quarter.

Windy was way worse. Was a liability on and off the ball.

I watched the first 10 minutes before solely focusing on Byrnes and Garcia and you could count a number of moments they probably would like back, so no surprise to see them both cop a spray on the bench. If it wasn't Garcia it would have been Byrnes

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not saying he won’t play, I’m just saying that if people are expecting him to be the answer to our midfield woes they might have another think coming.

We’ve seen all of Owens, Pou and Garcia given prime midfield opportunities in their first year or two when they were likewise showing lots like Hugh is and all had 4 or 5 disposal games in the midfield and it was like being a man down in there.

They were so far off it it wasn’t funny.

That’s why, while I’m hopeful that it will be different with Hugh, it could also just as easily be that he too will be miles off the pace against serious AFL midfields.

He looked good against Carlton in the preseason. Perhaps he gets limited runs through the middle and starts off HBF for Nas to go into the middle or takes Hugo's spot for now.

Might as well use the injuries as an excuse to blood a few. I still rate Carroll too. He looked close to our best in the VFL early in the season.

 

[gringo2011]

I can't see why everyone is so worked up about losing to a side that has won their past 19 out 20 games including the flag.

With our list we needed everything to go our way to remain competitive. But we couldn't have started the year with a worse injury list on top of a reasonably tough draw.

We have been playing with a key tall short at each end of the ground, still with a 3rd class midfield and supporters are expecting the busted up list to remain competitive.

Lyon can keep shuffling the deck chairs but our lack of quality across the ground is telling. No one player is going to make a significant difference to results against quality sides.

As we can't seem to attract any decent midfield talent, we need to keep treading water until our kids have enough games behind them to lead the team forward. That is going to take time in the interim we are going to have our disappointments.

Unbelievable how unlucky we have been with injury to mids for the last 4 years. Lost Crouch last year. Dow, Carroll, Clark, Phillipou all going down this year. It should have been plenty of depth to cover with experience and developing youth but somehow we managed to do it again.

 

[Noddah]

We lack class I’ve noticed in our last 3 games unless we get on top through utter willingness and pressure we are simply out classed all around the ground

 

[beside the seaside]

Unbelievable how unlucky we have been with injury to mids for the last 4 years. Lost Crouch last year. Dow, Carroll, Clark, Phillipou all going down this year. It should have been plenty of depth to cover with experience and developing youth but somehow we managed to do it again.

Clark and Pou back over the next couple of weeks should make a big difference. Good to see Carroll get a run for Sandy too.