Opinion Ranking the greatest players of the last 50 years.

[Bald]

Dustin Martin was an absolute beast of a player, but if you need to spend excessive time in nearly every thread talking about the greatest players ever about why he should be in the discussion then it's possible he's just not in the discussion.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Surely Nick Daicos given he is GOAT?!

 

[Ian Dunross]

Would be right up there? He is it. Period.

He is also the best finals performer, no matter how you slice and dice it.

He is also the most influential individual player on the most Premierships a team has won in that time and he did it for a team who has otherwise won two finals in 43 years.

And he has the best individual season.

And besides his best 4 season period where he dominated finals, 8 other elite seasons for his position/role.

If it was a thread about the greatest players at dominating weak opponents in home and away matches in the last 50 years, we wouldn't be here Sttew. But it isn't.

His "other 8 seasons" were not elite.

He has 4 x AA jumpers. That's a very useful guide to what is and what isn't elite, especially for midfielders.

 

[Partridge]

Honestly, one of the reasons I put Martin in Tier 2 was to prevent complaints from Tigers supporters. That being said, it's hard to argue that he is one of the best Finals/Grand Final performers ever, that alone is probably enough to put him in Tier 2.

If Dangerfield can achieve another AA blazer or Premiership, he'll rocket up to the top of Tier 2. He'd need another Brownlow to reach Tier 1 though (and I don't think he can manage that).

Bont will most likely finish in Tier 2. It will be a travesty if he finishes his career without a Brownlow.

Of all current players (and to me he is the best going around right now), he'd be the one more deserving of that status. He's come back from injury and effortlessly been best (or near best) on ground the first two games. He's insanely good and extraordinarily consistent.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Will only comment on players I have witnessed and remember seeing playing, currently 43yo

1. Wayne Carey
2. GAJ
3. Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

59

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

4. GAS
5. Dustin Martin
6. Michael Voss
7. Buddy
8. James Hird
9. Nick Riewoldt
10. Ben Cousins

Honourable mentions - Steve Silvagni, Greg Williams, Simon Black, Mark Ricciuto

Mark Ricciuto

Age

50

Ht

184cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

8.3

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

, Adam Goodes, Chris Judd, Nathan Buckley, Matthew Pavlich

Matthew Pavlich

Age

44

Ht

192cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

12.8

5star

HB

4.0

3star

M

8.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

3.4

5star

, Warren Tredrea

Warren Tredrea

Age

47

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

6.9

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

2.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.4

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

2.6

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.0

4star

, Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

, Jason Dunstall, Robert Harvey.

# I have no memory of Leigh Matthews playing, but everyone tells me he was amazing.. Same with Bruce Doull.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

His "other 8 seasons" were not elite.

He has 4 x AA jumpers. That's a very useful guide to what is and what isn't elite, especially for midfielders.

Yep so Dusty's 2nd season when he averaged 22 disposals and 2.5 goals + assists as a 19yo is not elite you say?

And his 2015 where he finished 7th in the Brownlow Medal is not elite?

And his 2019 where he was the 4th highest rated player, got 71 coaches votes in the regular season(in 20 games) was the Ayres & Smith Medallist and got 23 Brownlow votes, finishing 6th, is not elite because he astonishingly wasn't selected in the AA team.

And his 2023 season where he was the 2nd best general forward in the AFL behind Toby Greene was not elite because he was somehow left out of the AA team so that super damaging dangerous forward who didn't even average a goal a game, Conor Rozee, who wouldn't tie up Dusty's laces as a forward, could take up his "rightful" position on a half forward flank.

In truth, Dusty played at the equivalent of AA standard in at least 8 seasons - supported by 8 squad selections, 2011, his second season somehow not being one of those. So that is 9 seasons.

So you are wrong, missing AA selection is not a useful guide to whether a player is elite in a particular season. Look for eg at Lynch and Sicily in 2022 who missed selection. There are many others.

 

[pico]

Dustbin Fartin was only good for about 8 weeks back in 2017

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Finals footy is when it truly matters, Home & Away footy sets a team up for the Premiership but Finals footy is the time when a team actually wins the Premiership. The pressure goes up, the expectation goes up, the stakes are higher, it goes to another level in Finals, much higher than Home & Away footy.

Bob Skilton never played a final though, but he is better than 95% of premiership players.

In the last 25 years only 3 players that are on his level, Buddy, Ablett Jr and Dusty.

 

[Chronz]

Meteoric Rise is Dusty's #1 fan.

 

[gungho]

Will only comment on players I have witnessed and remember seeing playing, currently 43yo

1. Wayne Carey
2. GAJ
3. Tony Lockett
4. GAS
5. Dustin Martin
6. Michael Voss
7. Buddy
8. James Hird
9. Nick Riewoldt
10. Ben Cousins

Honourable mentions - Steve Silvagni, Greg Williams, Simon Black, Mark Ricciuto, Adam Goodes, Chris Judd, Nathan Buckley, Matthew Pavlich, Warren Tredrea, Patrick Cripps, Jason Dunstall, Robert Harvey.

# I have no memory of Leigh Matthews playing, but everyone tells me he was amazing.. Same with Bruce Doull.

Fyfe?

 

[gungho]

Dustbin Fartin was only good for about 8 weeks back in 2017

them's fighting words

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Fyfe?

Last few years have tainted his standing in the game so wouldn’t have him at the same level of those others I listed

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Show me a player who actually played better than Martin in finals during his peak years then.

He averaged through 12 finals in 4 years:

24 dispsoals
13.5 contested possessions
2.5 tackles
4.6 clearances
3.6 Goals + Assists combined(17% of all goals scored by both teams in these matches)
9.4 score involvements

In other words combining top class midfield output with absolute top of the class forwards output - but within a single player.

He was undisputed best player in 3 of those 4 finals series and probably on his way to what would have been a 4th when injured during the 2018 finals series.

He played 3 Grand Finals where 21 of the most credible 24 indicators(5 Smith medal voters in each GF, the 2 coaches in each GF, and player ratings for each GF) adjudged him BOG, 2 judged him 2nd BOG and 1 judged him 3rd BOG.

In his 3 Grand Finals he scored or directly assisted an average of 5.3 goals per match, which was 24% of the goals both teams scored in these matches. Those figures are ludicrous really, but moreso when you consider he was not playing as a specialist forward.

Dusty was outscored by just 8 goals by the whole opposition teams across 3 Grand Finals, while playing mainly as a midfielder. The average the opposition teams outscored him by, 2.66 goals per final across 3 Grand Finals, is bettered only by John Coleman in history in his 2 Grand Finals. Gary Ablett Snr was outscored by Hawthorn by 12 goals if we simply isolate the one Grand Final he played in his peak years and he scored or assisted 21% of the goals in that match. Playing solely as a specialist goal kicker.

I have been through all of this with a fine toothed comb over time, nobody we can find in history comes close to matching what Dusty achieved in finals in his prime, even when you isolate their primes. We have player ratings for all games played from 2012 onwards. Dusty's average player rating in his 12 peak aged finals is 22.6. That is his average. This will give you an idea how good that is - in the AFL rd 7 2025 just completed, only 3 individual players played matches rated higher than Dusty's 12 match finals average in his peak years. 411 of 414 players did not achieve Dusty's peak years finals average performance in a single home and away round. When you actually think about that it is mind boggling.

If you don't like player ratings, then simply look at coaches votes. He received 79 in those 12 matches of a possible maximum 120 votes. Over a 22 game home and away season, this average would translate to a 145 vote season. The highest any player has received in 20 odd years of the coaches MVP is Dusty's own 122 votes in 2017. So the coaches thought Dusty's average finals performance through his peak years was miles better than any player has produced in a home and away season in the last 20 years, where we have seen Ablett Jnr in his prime, Dangerfield, Gawn, Franklin, Judd, etc etc.

No other player in history comes close to the sum total or average of all of that, even when you isolate their peak years. So the simple answer to your opening statement is: Yes, he did.

I would say Leigh Matthews competes pretty well in this area (but was also the best H&A player of all time too).

Between the ages of 20 and 32 (so a far, far larger range than Dusty) Lethal played 23 finals (also based on a lot more finals, including years when the team wasn't the benchmark). This only excludes Matthews final season as a 33 year old and his 2 teenage finals.

In those 23 finals, Matthews kicked 65 goals in 23 games, for an average of 2.82 goals per game. Dusty's finals average was 1.6 (a little over half). Assists were not available in Matthews time.

Matthews averaged 18 kicks in those finals (to Dusty's 14) and very similar disposals (21.7 to 22), despite playing in an era where disposals were about 40% less.

The only other stat in Matthews era was marks - which Matthews is also around double Dusty (4.9 to 2.7).

These finals performances include:

• A 31 kick (33 pos), 7 goal final
• A 21 kick (24 pos), 7 goal final
• A 37 possession, 4 goal final
• A 28 possession 4 goal Grand Final
• A 15 kick, 6 goal grand final
• A 16 poss, 4 goal Grand Final
• A 26 poss, 4 goal final
• A 22 poss, 6 goal final
• A 26 poss, 3 goal final
• Etc, etc.

Whilst all the votes and ratings you have used were not available back then, many of these performances were very highly heralded at the time and exceed what Dusty produced.

For example, Matthews has 4 finals where he kicked 6+ goals, Dusty has kicked more than 4 just once.
Dusty is famous for going at 22+ disposals and 4+ goals in finals, but he did that once (and 21 and 4 once) and Lethal did it 6 times.

I'm not even arguing that Lethal is the best finals player of all time (or even necessarily better than Dusty - who is an all timer in finals) - just that the assumption that he is the greatest of all time in finals I'm not sure had been fully proven.

 

[gungho]

Last few years have tainted his standing in the game so wouldn’t have him at the same level of those others I listed

The 8 seasons (between 2012 and 2019) that he averaged more brownlow votes per game than any other player in the history of the game bar Hayden Bunton Senior count for nothing?

 

[Mr Meow]

The 8 seasons (between 2012 and 2019) that he averaged more brownlow votes per game than any other player in the history of the game bar Hayden Bunton Senior count for nothing?

The brutal truth of it though is that Fyfe was basically an irrelevant player before he even hit 200 games. In the modern era that does mark him down a fair bit among his peers. His best handful of seasons were incredible though.

 

[gungho]

The brutal truth of it though is that Fyfe was basically an irrelevant player before he even hit 200 games. In the modern era that does mark him down a fair bit among his peers. His best handful of seasons were incredible though.

I have just listed a statistic that proves he was an unbelievably good player for 8 seasons. That seems like a decent amount of time to be at the top of your game to me.

 

[Mr Meow]

I have just given you a statistic saying he was an unbelievably good player for 8 seasons. That seems like a decent amount of time to be at the top of your game to me.

3x All Australian. 3x B&F. A few really good finals. Very nice career. Not up there with the best ever.

 

[gungho]

3x All Australian. 3x B&F. A few really good finals. Very nice career. Not up there with the best ever.

If you have an 8 year period where you average more brownlow votes per game than any other player (bar Hayden Bunton Senior) I think it's fair to say you've done a bit more than had a "very nice career".

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The brutal truth of it though is that Fyfe was basically an irrelevant player before he even hit 200 games. In the modern era that does mark him down a fair bit among his peers. His best handful of seasons were incredible though.

Fyfe has a lot of accolades and yet we can still say "what could have been?"

 

[gungho]

Fyfe has a lot of accolades and yet we can still say "what could have been?"

It's funny how guys like Kouta, Brereton and Daicos get lauded as legends by the AFL media, yet none of these guys were at their peak for as long as Fyfe.

 

[LongSerong]

3x All Australian. 3x B&F. A few really good finals. Very nice career. Not up there with the best ever.

2x Brownlow's isn't too shabby either. Not a long list of players that have done that. He wasn't a flash in the pan

 

[Mr Meow]

If you have an 8 year period where you average more brownlow votes per game than any other player (bar Hayden Bunton Senior) I think it's fair to say you've done a bit more than had a "very nice career".

At the end of this season Fyfe will be 15th on the Brownlow votes list. A few youngsters from this generation will catch him too.

Coaches votes wise he has 650, while a number of current or recently retired players pushed to 900-1000.

Fyfe hasn't even hit 6000 disposals and has just barely eclipsed 300 goals/assists. As a reference point, Dangerfield has over 8000 disposals and is about to hit 600 goals/assists while having the most clearances recorded.

Along with just 3 AAs as a midfielder and a relatively small standout finals portfolio, there's a bit going against him. Fizzling out over the past 5 years hasn't helped. Playing in a Freo side that only made it to a grand final once (let alone win one), and he could only win 3 BnFs as a midfielder?

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It's funny how guys like Kouta, Brereton and Daicos get lauded as legends by the AFL media, yet none of these guys were at their peak for as long as Fyfe.

Fyfe will be a hall of fame player, I know that for sure.

Legit his peak was some of the best footy that has been played in 25 years.

Injuries let him down.

 

[Mr Meow]

2x Brownlow's isn't too shabby either. Not a long list of players that have done that. He wasn't a flash in the pan

Great player, great career - no doubt. We are talking about an impossibly high standard in this thread. I'm fine with the arguments "for". But there is certainly a very valid case "against".

 

[LongSerong]

Great player, great career - no doubt. We are talking about an impossibly high standard in this thread. I'm fine with the arguments "for". But there is certainly a very valid case "against".

There's only 8 other players in the past 50 years that have won multiple Brownlows. He's on the list for sure.