Autopsy 2024 Rd 11 Leaders let Blues down in season defining loss to Giants

[blues4flag]

Nope. I hardly ever talk Jesse up. I've called for him to be dropped plenty of times.

I've basically only started defended him during and after this game, because I felt singling him out was wrong.

That doesn't mean I think he will make it. It doesn't mean I think he is in form. It doesn't mean he should keep his place in the side.

I just watched him busting his gut and throwing himself into contests and tackles. I saw real effort from him, and not the bruise free stuff he shows regularly.

What you've noticed seems to be since yesterday. You won't find too much 'ardent' defence aside from that.

Yes and yes. The vitriol from our supporter base once they latch onto a scapegoat is sickening.

Motlop is struggling. He's also trying. He leads all our smalls for tackles and pressure acts.


Problem with Motlop seems obvious. He's short and stocky but very weak through the core. Can't absorb any physical pressure. Much more of a problem than his lack of acceleration. A glancing hand is enough to throw him off balance. He's unable to absorb a tackle and get his hands free - either hugs it in or let's it dribble out in effectually.

If he's able to shrug off the glancing tackles (as his build indicates he should), he'll buy himself some time to accelerate away. Hopefully it's something that comes with time, as with time, space and confidence in his abilities, he's shown be can kick goals.

In the short term, a spell in the 2s would do him some good. With Williams, Fantasia and potentially Cottrell available, we have that luxury.

One thing I've noticed is that our smalls seem to have a good 2 or 3 weeks after a lay off, but quickly drop off in output. Perhaps we're asking too much of them defensively and it wears it out. We've seen it with White, Durdin and now Fogarty. With the above 3 returning, maybe we rotate our smalls every 3-4 weeks to keep them fresh.

 

[dumb]

the hallmark of our team is its woeful inefficiency in the forward line. 3 coleman medals and we can't kick a score.
poor entries, poor set shots, week on week. some injuries too. we'd rather kick to a name player in a pack than someone who's worked to make space and be on their own. that rings all sorts of alarm bells, coaching, team cohesion, what players think of each other.

 

[Moon]

Nope. I hardly ever talk Jesse up. I've called for him to be dropped plenty of times.

I think I may have you mixed up with Aphrodite. Apologies
I recall my criticism of Motlop earlier this season didn't go down all that well....

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes and yes. The vitriol from our supporter base once they latch onto a scapegoat is sickening.

Motlop is struggling. He's also trying. He leads all our smalls for tackles and pressure acts.


Problem with Motlop seems obvious. He's short and stocky but very weak through the core. Can't absorb any physical pressure. Much more of a problem than his lack of acceleration. A glancing hand is enough to throw him off balance. He's unable to absorb a tackle and get his hands free - either hugs it in or let's it dribble out in effectually.

If he's able to shrug off the glancing tackles (as his build indicates he should), he'll buy himself some time to accelerate away. Hopefully it's something that comes with time, as with time, space and confidence in his abilities, he's shown be can kick goals.

In the short term, a spell in the 2s would do him some good. With Williams, Fantasia and potentially Cottrell available, we have that luxury.

One thing I've noticed is that our smalls seem to have a good 2 or 3 weeks after a lay off, but quickly drop off in output. Perhaps we're asking too much of them defensively and it wears it out. We've seen it with White, Durdin and now Fogarty. With the above 3 returning, maybe we rotate our smalls every 3-4 weeks to keep them fresh.

I think Jesse has skills. I do get caught up in thinking that all small forwards need to be express pace, evasive will-o'-the-wisps because that's what the best small forward's highlight reels dictate. However, not to many were critical of Jesse when he was kicking 4 goals vs Port as a 19 year old, or kicking the second last goal vs Melbourne in the 2023 semi-final.

When you see him short step, or hang an arm out with no real intent ... we rightly criticise him. Those efforts aren't AFL standard.

However, all over the net, people are talking about his possession count, with zero understanding of what a small forwards role is or how different it is to a midfielder. Sometimes the ball doesn't go near a player. If you break down a game play by play, it can be tough to say whether a player should have been there to gather the ball or not. Jesse's heat map shows him being way more expansive than the other small forwards. What instructions are they being given?

We are regularly playing 4 small forwards in every game. They aren't all performing traditional small forward roles, and aren't all allowed to make themselves dangerous at every forward entry. This is why it is difficult to drop White, Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia, Evans ... just on the strength of the limited stats we have access to. You'd need to play the game back and identify the specific role at any given moment, their running patterns, who is playing the front and centre role, who is there to negate a defensive opponent, who is playing the link role etc.

I can only truly knock a player by the eye test, passage by passage. It's all about effort for me ... contesting, chasing, tackling. When I see players cruising when the ball hits the ground and the opponent runs away, but when the game is tight late, see them stretching out to apply pressure, I know they are conditional. A lot of our players lift massively when someone else does something to help them lift. They don't want to be the only one not lifting. We don't have many of these guys who want to be the lifting force.

 

[slashin_velvet]

I think Jesse has skills. I do get caught up in thinking that all small forwards need to be express pace, evasive will-o'-the-wisps because that's what the best small forward's highlight reels dictate. However, not to many were critical of Jesse when he was kicking 4 goals vs Port as a 19 year old, or kicking the second last goal vs Melbourne in the 2023 semi-final.

When you see him short step, or hang an arm out with no real intent ... we rightly criticise him. Those efforts aren't AFL standard.

However, all over the net, people are talking about his possession count, with zero understanding of what a small forwards role is or how different it is to a midfielder. Sometimes the ball doesn't go near a player. If you break down a game play by play, it can be tough to say whether a player should have been there to gather the ball or not. Jesse's heat map shows him being way more expansive than the other small forwards. What instructions are they being given?

We are regularly playing 4 small forwards in every game. They aren't all performing traditional small forward roles, and aren't all allowed to make themselves dangerous at every forward entry. This is why it is difficult to drop White, Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia, Evans ... just on the strength of the limited stats we have access to. You'd need to play the game back and identify the specific role at any given moment, their running patterns, who is playing the front and centre role, who is there to negate a defensive opponent, who is playing the link role etc.

I can only truly knock a player by the eye test, passage by passage. It's all about effort for me ... contesting, chasing, tackling. When I see players cruising when the ball hits the ground and the opponent runs away, but when the game is tight late, see them stretching out to apply pressure, I know they are conditional. A lot of our players lift massively when someone else does something to help them lift. They don't want to be the only one not lifting. We don't have many of these guys who want to be the lifting force.

I'm not here to knock Jesse, but would counter some of your points with the context that he isn't playing pure small forward. Genuine small forwards aren't attending centre bounces - so we are using him as a hybrid player, and need to assess him accordingly.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm not here to knock Jesse, but would counter some of your points with the context that he isn't playing pure small forward. Genuine small forwards aren't attending centre bounces - so we are using him as a hybrid player, and need to assess him accordingly.

He's not a clearance player though. He's not even attending bounces in the position we intend our hit to go. Perhaps that's part of the problem. You can look at Motlop in the centre and know the ball isn't going there. He is standing in a position whereby he can be quick enough to negate the opposition tap. He attended 4 centre bounces yesterday and got 1 centre clearance.

 

[SurreyBlue]

That performance was who we now are. What as a club are we going to do about it?

Some encouraging signs from some of the younger brigade, so something to take away from the game, but not much else.

We're cooked and need a major shake up.

Agree. The problem is, I don’t trust anyone in charge to indentify the issue(s) and implement the correct aggressive change(s). Not one person!

 

[Moon]

Problem with Motlop seems obvious. He's short and stocky but very weak through the core. Can't absorb any physical

Motsy is 180cm / 5' 11" and 81Kg .... so I don't consider him that small or stocky.

Looks smaller alongside the Big Boys

Durds is 173cm / 5' 8" and 73Kg .. (same as me ... short arse on a footy field )

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Agree. The problem is, I don’t trust anyone in charge to indentify the issue(s) and implement the correct aggressive change(s). Not one person!

Graham Wright has to be a chance.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Yes and no. He doesn’t attempt to create. He makes the rebound someone else’s problem then sprays everyone when it comes back the other way.

It’s been going on for ages.

I get where you are coming from, he has been prone at times in spraying teammates, as far as the sideways and backwards movement goes it’s been a problem for many players…

The fact is we still have such an ordinary process with ball movement from defense which hasn’t evolved into a modern functional system heading into its fourth season…

 

[goreds]

Should be a mandatory session tomorrow morning where a panel of bigfooty's finest minds tell them what they've been doing wrong.

With a hangover that'll be way more painful than a mouth guard training session

Name names…

I dare you!

 

[SurreyBlue]

the hallmark of our team is its woeful inefficiency in the forward line. 3 coleman medals and we can't kick a score.
poor entries, poor set shots, week on week. some injuries too. we'd rather kick to a name player in a pack than someone who's worked to make space and be on their own. that rings all sorts of alarm bells, coaching, team cohesion, what players think of each other.

 

[Aphrodite]

I think I may have you mixed up with Aphrodite. Apologies
I recall my criticism of Motlop earlier this season didn't go down all that well....

Um what!

 

[myblueroan]

Pretty obvious we have gotta shake things up in a big way.

If we don't wanna punt the coach, I guess that means trading some bigger names we want to keep and stripping out the support staff behind the scenes.

sigh

Yep. Let's exhaust and Carltonise a whole new crew of incoming.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

He cannot get separation and is pretty much not AFL standard.

Has more talent than most on our list. Does not seem to want to work for it. His best seasons were one and two, kicked big goals in big moments, got to the foot of the marking contests, chased and tackled hard. Now he plays with zero intensity does not look interested at all. I've got no doubt if he went to Collingwood he'd be the next Bobby Hill.

 

[Moon]

Um what!

I just came back to delete that post.... but Oh No .. too late

Apologies all round ... I shouldn't have gone there. Look defending Motlop is not a bad thing, honestly.
He is trying and it's not like he is the only one up forward not doing enough for the cause

 

[WyntersGame_]

I think Motlop does enough right to justify persisting with him, but there are two glaring weaknesses he really needs to address.

The first is his core strength. He's not alone here—Harry is another example who often gets pushed around despite being a big guy. If Motlop can build up his core strength, it would make a huge difference to his game. To draw a comparison from another sport, look at Mo Salah in the Premier League. He's not a big player, yet regularly holds his own against much larger defenders thanks to his incredible core strength. He manages to stay on his feet and retain possession the vast majority of the time. That’s the kind of physical resilience Motlop should aim for.

The second area is his marking. He tends to get into the right positions, which is encouraging, but his hands are too rigid—almost lead-like. As a result, the ball often bounces off rather than sticking. If he can soften his hands and improve his marking technique, it would go a long way in rounding out his game

 

[GoBlues!]

the hallmark of our team is its woeful inefficiency in the forward line. 3 coleman medals and we can't kick a score.

That’s been our achilles heel for a while, the high number of i50s and our low scoring. I think Voss was questioned after the game and acknowledged it was an issue.

GWS had Hogan and Ricardo kicking goals and host of other contributors, even their ruckman kicked one from a hitout with TDK before the ball hit the ground!

Harry kicked zip and TDK hasn’t bothered the scoreboard for a while.

 

[hoops2fev]

Just Hope Ed hasn't sold that Farm

 

[bluesfever16]

There weren't many positives but after a dismal first half McGovern with 2 goal assists when moved forward (equal highest on the ground) was something. Think he needs to play forward for the rest of the year now. If he performs then he earns an extension. If not then move him on.

 

[Broadside]

There weren't many positives but after a dismal first half McGovern with 2 goal assists when moved forward (equal highest on the ground) was something. Think he needs to play forward for the rest of the year now. If he performs then he earns an extension. If not then move him on.

McGovern stays forward and HOF stays in the team in defence.

 

[The Bighouse]

There weren't many positives but after a dismal first half McGovern with 2 goal assists when moved forward (equal highest on the ground) was something. Think he needs to play forward for the rest of the year now. If he performs then he earns an extension. If not then move him on.

If he plays he earns himself a trigger. Need to be cautious on this outcome.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Should be a mandatory session tomorrow morning where a panel of bigfooty's finest minds tell them what they've been doing wrong.

With a hangover that'll be way more painful than a mouth guard training session

I'd love to hear the club's explanation as to our game plan and how we use our players. It seems that the entire AFL world thinks our game plan is outdated.

But we do know that game plans change, and come back into style. It's just a matter of personnel. If it suddenly changed midseason, we'd be in the box seat.

 

[The Bighouse]

I'd love to hear the club's explanation as to our game plan and how we use our players. It seems that the entire AFL world thinks our game plan is outdated.

But we do know that game plans change, and come back into style. It's just a matter of personnel. If it suddenly changed midseason, we'd be in the box seat.

Entire..?
Vs tweeks, specifically components of our game that let us down to win games.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Entire..?
Vs tweeks, specifically components of our game that let us down to win games.

You think we are tweaks away from winning more consistently?

I think we have to win contested ball and clearance the majority of the time, but we also have to change our forward 50 entries, and who delivers the ball. We then have to change the way we lead, and have small forwards who can rove the ball off packs at pace. The only way contested ball allows us to score is if we get the ball to ground and we have enough contested ball winners to keep it in there until we can scrap through a goal.

Because we don't take a lot of ground through running to leave opposition midfielders unable to get back to help in time, we don't have an open forward line very often, at least not as much as opposition teams do against us.

When a team is matching us for contested ball and clearance, we don't have the ability to break lines in order to find different paths to goal. Take away our one wood, and we are in big trouble. Even with our one wood, it relies on contested marking inside 50.