Autopsy Round 16, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Collingwood

[Matele]

Positives

-Liam Baker

3

Liam Baker

Age

27

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

1.2

4star

. He’s a heart and soul player and deserves the captaincy above anyone else next year, even if Oz stay.

-Hough was immense against the golden child for 3.5 quarters.

-McCarthy was fantastic, bobbed up everywhere and ran all day.

-H.Edwards was solid down back.

- Ability to run and implement the gameplan over larger chunks of time was pleasing to see. We look good when it’s on. Ditto chasing and closing down a points buffer TWICE.

Negatives

-Goal kicking is undoing a lot of the good work happening elsewhere. We’ve kicked ourselves out of two of the last three games, and it’s a trend I hope to see corrected.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

You were doing so great until you mentioned Kelly contributing

12 disposals 1 goal from Tim is seriously poor for a player of his calibre and the expectations of him.

I feel like we still judge Kelly's games based on what we expected from his as a midfielder. He had a very quiet for 1.5 quarters, but he got his game going late in the 2nd and we scored off alot of his work in forward half of the ground. 12D 6SI, 1G is a decent game for a forward....

 

[garlic munchers]

+ My smug satisfaction after I told my mates at the pub pregame “watch Harley slightly touch Daicos and give away a 50”.

How embarrassing must it be to be an AFL umpire and just gargle on the scrote of that dude week after week.

They are not embarrassed one bit,

They gargle and swallow.

 

[Smotie2]

I'm a kelly hater but I think his first half was very good. I think he would have hit his kpi's as a half forward with those stats. Cripps got 0.1 from 7 possessions is in trouble might be sub next week or sent to the wafl.

We need more than a half from someone so experienced in our team.

This is why we lose games....players out in a half and can't get arsed doing anymore.

 

[Smotie2]

I feel like we still judge Kelly's games based on what we expected from his as a midfielder. He had a very quiet for 1.5 quarters, but he got his game going late in the 2nd and we scored off alot of his work in forward half of the ground. 12D 6SI, 1G is a decent game for a forward....

Yeah...halfa kelly

 

[Matele]

I feel like we still judge Kelly's games based on what we expected from his as a midfielder. He had a very quiet for 1.5 quarters, but he got his game going late in the 2nd and we scored off alot of his work in forward half of the ground. 12D 6SI, 1G is a decent game for a forward....

If you overheard that a HFF contributed 12D 3M and 1G you’d think ‘decent game’

But if you throw in its TK people think it’s shit, I don’t get it. He’s not playing as a pure mid anymore, so those numbers as a forward half player are decent if not average for that position and that role.

 

[Coasters7]

+Harry Edwards. So many on here being proven wrong by this guy
+Liam Baker. As above
+Shanahans first goal
+ Maric, McCarthy, Hutchinson, Hough, Hall. All these guys i think will be AFL footballers and showed alot tonight
+Harley is coming good. Hewett and Ginbey over Wardlaw was a god damn master-stroke

-Jack Williams goal kicking
-Sandy Brock
-Jayden Hunt had one touch as sub and turned it over. Just no more please
-the commentary. 18th v 1st and we were leading alot of the game. Yet zero enthusiasm when we did anything. Huddo lost alot of points in my eyes tonight

Huddo has been like that all year. Used to really enjoy his commentary but has lost a bit of the magic, seems very flat these days, and the bias is as bad as it’s ever been - although I’d imagine a lot of this is also pushed by Fox

 

[Cuzz09]

Harley gets umpired differently. There's zero doubt there.

Hope he doesn't get too frustrated

 

[Matele]

Huddo has been like that all year. Used to really enjoy his commentary but has lost a bit of the magic, seems very flat these days, and the bias is as bad as it’s ever been - although I’d imagine a lot of this is also pushed by Fox

I swear he called Brady Hough ‘Brody’ a handful of times. It makes me irrationally angry.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I don't understand badges issue, something about him not running hard enough defensively. But that same thing can be said of literally every 19-20 year old player.

Badge is a dumb stupid dickhole, but he's not totally clueless here.

There are times where Hall just shows absolutely zero intensity defensively... Like, he not only doesn't chase someone next to him, he legit just stops dead.

He did it again somewhat tonight when he looked like he was 3m from closing down the space on Markov... And just borderline walked towards him and Markov took off under no pressure like he's Speedy Gonzales.

I think he's just unfit or something. He borderline just dies and stands there rather than put on pressure. It's quite odd.

Badge is still a kent for writing off a 19yr old inside midfielder though, let's circle back to that.

 

[Matele]

I think he's just unfit or something. He borderline just dies and stands there rather than put on pressure. It's quite odd.

Ahh, the old AFL Premiership 2007 AI trick.

 

[Grahame]

I'm a kelly hater but I think his first half was very good. I think he would have hit his kpi's as a half forward with those stats. Cripps got 0.1 from 7 possessions is in trouble might be sub next week or sent to the wafl.

I think it might be time to drop an older player or two for the sake of improving the Beagles. Tonight might have given us a hint - Cripps subbed for Hunt.

Nothing to lose.

The kids look like they’re capable of handling things okay.

 

[Grahame]

Positives everywhere.

One negative that should be able to be fixed pretty easily is our arguing or being distracted by a possibly bad decision. By comparison the Pies would just get on their bikes - immediately - leaving us in their wake.

 

[jesterwester]

That Shanahan mark and kick for goal reminded me so much of Kennedy.

Kids going to be a star.

 

[sharps24]

Game of two halves really but that first half was top notch, second not all bad.

Positives:

Edwards, Hough, Baker exceptional. Many others very good including Mac, Maric, Graham, Hall

Kelly, Brockman, Ryan all did good things in their own way. It's a good looking forward half with all 3 of these blokes moving through there and not to typecast but honestly it may well look even better with Champion thrown into the mix relatively soonish.

Duggan gets top marks for effort, to cut him some slack there probably isn't a player in the side who's struggling more with the change of system. Still looking to find his niche.

I'll take a game like that from Jack Williams. Disappointing in front of the big sticks and a brain fade but these are the challenges you want to face on the journey to 50 games. Important thing is you can't really ever say he goes missing. He'll be better for it.

So pleased for Jobe. Both that he got a rare full game to debut and that he kicked a goal, took a decent clunk or two and looked comfortable at the level. Hopefully he plays out the season.

Mixed bag from Sandy Brock and Bailey Williams. I'll cut both some slack. Ones what 5 games into a career and holding down CHB and the other looked a bit lost in a forward line thats never played together as a trio of talls and probably never expected to- they need time to bed down a routine.

Negatives:

Without doubt Harley is umpired to a different standard but at the same time there's not a player in the game who spends more time out there chirping at the umps. Chicken or egg? Vicious circle? One things for sure giving them an earful every time a decision doesn't go your way is unlikely to improve the situation. Makes it a bit hard for the coach to have a whinge on your behalf as well if you are out there carrying on like a spoiled Auskicker. Needs to get it out of his game.

Flynn, I guess we're just stuck with him. And thats ok. I'm in team don't sell the farm for a replacement we need that draft capital for other things. He's not setting the world on fire by any means but at least it gives Bailey a break from the main job to find his feet as a forward. Not sure I'm ready to throw Archer Reid to the wolves as a permanent replacement so I'll cop it. That is my preference going forward though, maybe.

Not activating the sub until 10 minutes left in the game. [But at least he's consistent.]

People whinging about Hunt having 1 possession and it being a turnover. He played for 10 minutes. The bloke he replaced played for 70 minutes for 7 possessions and had 2 turnovers himself [including a handball that went directly to a Collingwood player for I guess they are even there] and out of 44 players who started the game was ranked first for disposal inefficiency @42.9%. He's also only kicked 1 goal in his last 3 games. But suggest at half time he might be the man to sub today and you get the heroic threadmod invent a narrative around "so your saying that if he wasn't playing we be beating the team thats 10 points clear on top of the ladder?" No, thats not actually what I was saying. Tiresome.

 

[jesterwester]

Overall the result probably went as you’d expect.

But I think the thing I was most proud of was our 2nd and 3rd quarter rallies. The WC games of the last 2 years, even earlier this year we would have conceded 8-10 goals in the quarter and not be able to overturn the momentum.

That Allan burst leading to the Hough goal in the 3rd was just about as good as it gets. Going to be really something when we can sustain that ball movement for longer.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Badge is a dumb stupid dickhole, but he's not totally clueless here.

There are times where Hall just shows absolutely zero intensity defensively... Like, he not only doesn't chase someone next to him, he legit just stops dead.

He did it again somewhat tonight when he looked like he was 3m from closing down the space on Markov... And just borderline walked towards him and Markov took off under no pressure like he's Speedy Gonzales.

I think he's just unfit or something. He borderline just dies and stands there rather than put on pressure. It's quite odd.

Badge is still a kent for writing off a 19yr old inside midfielder though, let's circle back to that.

Defensive intent is probably the easiest thing to improve, it doesn't take talent or skill and most 18-19 year olds a defensive liability. I do think Clay Hall is a bit overly ball focussed, when we don't have it, he's not overly engaged. Badge talks about it as if Hall is delist worthy, which is extreme. He'll be a decent player with 20-30 games under his belt.

 

[squashface]

Overall the result probably went as you’d expect.

But I think the thing I was most proud of was our 2nd and 3rd quarter rallies. The WC games of the last 2 years, even earlier this year we would have conceded 8-10 goals in the quarter and not be able to overturn the momentum.

That Allan burst leading to the Hough goal in the 3rd was just about as good as it gets. Going to be really something when we can sustain that ball movement for longer.

My concern is I don't know if it will be possible to sustain this game style to the point where we decimate shit sides and consistently compete against top sides in finals/GFs. Obviously it is early days but I worry that it is a game style where a) you need to be very very fit to do it all game and b) any skill errors mean you are completely exposed going the other way.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Defensive intent is probably the easiest thing to improve, it doesn't take talent or skill and most 18-19 year olds a defensive liability. I do think Clay Hall is a bit overly ball focussed, when we don't have it, he's not overly engaged. Badge talks about it as if Hall is delist worthy, which is extreme. He'll be a decent player with 20-30 games under his belt.

Yeah I'm certainly not hanging my opinion on Hall over it (unlike Honeyflog 🫩), but it's something I've also noticed.

For me the takeaway from tonight with Hall is just how much it's highlighted that he's not the finished product. Looooads more improvement still to come.

17 of his 22 touches tonight were uncontested. Who'd have thought the inside grunt with the shit skills would be able to link up and get that much outside ball. For me it dispels the notion a bit that he can't play in the same team as Graham as they're the same player, far from it.

Get a good pre season into him and there's loads of upside there going into 2026.

 

[sharps24]

Badge is a dumb stupid dickhole, but he's not totally clueless here.

There are times where Hall just shows absolutely zero intensity defensively... Like, he not only doesn't chase someone next to him, he legit just stops dead.

He did it again somewhat tonight when he looked like he was 3m from closing down the space on Markov... And just borderline walked towards him and Markov took off under no pressure like he's Speedy Gonzales.

I think he's just unfit or something. He borderline just dies and stands there rather than put on pressure. It's quite odd.

Badge is still a kent for writing off a 19yr old inside midfielder though, let's circle back to that.

Only thing I could disagree with here is that Hall beat out Graham tonight to cover more ground than any Eagle. So I guess if he adds some more defensive running to his game he's going to reach Jeremy Sharpe levels of fitness- which is going to be very impressive. Only his second year too.

 

[bUCKET__]

Actual pressure and spread. This is a system that'll get us back into contention soon enough. And it's still damn fun to watch in the meantime.

My highlight was Ginbey going back with the flight. Gets absolutely flattened but is back up in a second. What a unit.

 

[jesterwester]

My concern is I don't know if it will be possible to sustain this game style to the point where we decimate shit sides and consistently compete against top sides in finals/GFs. Obviously it is early days but I worry that it is a game style where a) you need to be very very fit to do it all game and b) any skill errors mean you are completely exposed going the other way.

It’s a fair concern. Heck how I’d kill for us to be flat track bullies again.

But I think as it develops I see it as being more sustainable in bigger games because it doesn’t rely on perfection or a solitary source to score. It’s more rounded, I feel. What I think will improve as we get fitter is the ability to control the ball more effectively. I wouldn’t underestimate the effect fitness will have on overall skills.

 

[maverick001]

POS

• Miini is proving that we've got a good coach, even if he basically got the gig by default. Showing that with a good game style (which a young team has picked up surprisingly quickly, especially given how much of a deviation it is from Simmo's) you can be pretty competitive even with a fairly thin or young list. People were often saying it wasn't Simmo's fault because we didn't have the cattle. But I always thought we should have been going a lot better with the players we had (particularly in '20 & '21, but also obvs the yrs in the wilderness from '22 - '24). Mini's style is much more likely to see the younger players develop & grow rather than stagnate like they had been under Simmo, because he's giving them the confidence to play aggressively & to their strengths.
• Jobe is a key fwd, too good to waste down back, & a better prospect than Archer. All the best key forwards over the years have been lead-up players & you could see that tonight in his game. Reminded me so much of JK with his strong leads, strong hands, straight kicking & also his rangy body shape with long arms. Him & Snake leading the forward line with JW as fwd ruck will serve us very well. Archer can go back or into ruck.
• HEdwards has become a really good defender & has improved so much over the last 12 months. Great to see. We've got one of our key posts sorted for the next 6-8 years.
• Allan will be a good player. A lot of people moan we've got 2 of the same player (him & Ginners) but Allan plays a different game I think. Knows how to use his pace. More of a natural ball hunter. I'm excited to see what he might bring as a mid in 2 yrs time.
• Houghy rarely plays a bad game, always brings effort, performs whatever role he's asked. Unsure what his LT position will be, but he'll do it well whatever it is.
• Ginbey is a real leader. His courage, effort & commitment to contest can never be questioned.
• I've been pretty lukewarm on Hutch but today showed he's picking up on where & when to run as a wingman. Has all the athletic traits for it.
• Baker obvs was great. We're getting a lot more out of him than Hawks are from TB.
• Clay Hall is not as one-dimensional or as bad a disposal as he's made out to be. There's hope there.
• TMac, we've hit the jackpot there

NEG

• I love Hewett but he really drifts in & out of games. Obviously with better fitness this will improve, but I do wonder if its concentration somewhat. I'm still convinced he'll be a pretty good player, but not sold that he'll be top shelf mid, just needs that consistency. Also needs to strengthen through upper body/core a lot as he gets pushed off ball quite a bit. He's certainly got power, but needs muscle to go with it. Sorry to be glass half empty, I love him as a player & just want him to be the best he can be.
• JWill a couple shocker moments were costly but he's got some credits in the bank so I forgive him.
• Ruckmen got absolutely torched for a little stretch at start of Q2 that cost us 3 goals. Unfortunately its par for the course.
• List has less holes than I thought at start of year, nevertheless we definitely need:

* 2 high quality consistent ball winning mids. Harley will be a gun, Hewett probably good to very good, & Hough/Hall (+Gross) show positive signs, but I think we need at least one more elite talent & he needs to find the footy consistently.
* 1-2 high pressure small fwds who hit the scoreboard
* A ruckman who can hold his own.


And one that's not really a positive nor a negative.......Harley is a bit different to everyone else & think too often he gets criticised because of this. Yes he gets pinged HTB a fair bit & its often because he's holding onto the ball too long, but it's because he's looking for the right option, & when it comes off it is highly beneficial. In time he'll get better at knowing when to dish & when to hold. He's gone through his junior career probably un-tackleable so it's not a surprise he's taking some time to adjust when faced with very strong, fit & well coached men who can nail him if he takes too long. The main thing is he's a bloke who doesn't panic, & has the skills, strength & vision to be a very good ball user once he gets his fitness base up & a bit more experience. Also he sometimes gives some careless free kicks, but on the other hand it's because he's got a bit of alpha about him, which we've lacked for a long time. He is showing he is learning to control it a bit better. But remember, it's these same traits that mean he always gives a strong contest when it's his turn to go. The main thing we've seen over the last couple months is a willingness to listen, improve & take a more team-first approach. He's still only in his second year, cops a lot of attention from the opposition, is hated on by the umps, & built up then cut down a lot by the media. Given all this, he's going pretty well I reckon. Was good to see Jay Clark, Kingy & JReiwoldt be positive about him after the game because there's so much negativity from the media towards him, with little going the other way usually.

Long post, sorry.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I noticed his kicking was actually really good tonight. A few times we fed the ball back inside D50 and it ended up in his hands and I wondered for a minute what was about to happen, but he hit his target perfectly.

I don't understand badges issue, something about him not running hard enough defensively. But that same thing can be said of literally every 19-20 year old player.

I think he can kick fine when he takes a second to compose himself. When he played against Brisbane, I was actually a bit surprised at how much of the ball he got. Hall isn't a stat pig like Gaff, but he seems a more natural accumulator which is something neither Hewett or Harley have shown an ability to do consistently.

He tackled very well tonight (and played well generally but since we’re talking defensive effort). This is going to be taken as some sort of absolute skewering but it’s not, I’m just plainly laying out my stance on Hall, off the back of clearly his best AFL game so there’s no claims of recency bias or post loss melts etc.

He is incredibly defensively lazy and still had some moments tonight of that. One absolute howler of a chase late but even I defended him on that because he was completely gassed in the late fourth of a back and forth sprint. But early in the game, corralling that would make the Simmo Out brigade implode if it was from a whipping boy.

Read through the WAFL thread and you’ll find others saying the same. He rarely chases particularly hard with any intent, they’re jog chases for show if they come at all.

Combine that with his very unpredictable disposal, and I think there’s a massively imposed ceiling on what he can be at AFL level until the equation changes. He’s not particularly big. He’s not a defensive beast. His skills aren’t particularly great.

HOWEVER, his skills tonight would qualify for change the equation in my mind. If that’s his standard of general AFL ball use, then giddy up my son because you can rotate on ball for the next year no questions asked. Tackled very well when the ball was in his vicinity tonight, another big tick.

I think he’s a player with a fair few stark weaknesses, and not a tonne of AFL calibre strengths, but also our handling of him hasn’t been ideal and I’ve championed him getting a call up for a while now based off WAFL form. If he uses the footy like that most weeks, and tackles the blokes in arm’s reach that well, then the lack of chasing and chaotic nature of his skills that he’s shown become massively less relevant.

Good on him, hope he becomes a 200 gamer.

 

[Dark Sharks]

My highlight was Ginbey going back with the flight. Gets absolutely flattened but is back up in a second. What a unit.

I almost put on my Monster snapback cap and punched some dry wall when this happened, he didn't get a free kick despite getting a forearm in the back of the head

Only to be outdone with Ned Long getting spun 540 over a 5 second period without being pinged HTB then Duggan picking it up, getting clamped for an instant free kick against. Even had the commentary shook.