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Happy to copy and paste until I witness evidence to change my stance
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Opinion What are our current areas of concern or improvement required
- Thread starter Arr0w
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Happy to copy and paste until I witness evidence to change my stance
The board not holding every football department employee to account apart from tbe senior coach. Carlton employs mediocrity and let's it fester or fail upward. For example, Austin has completely failed as list manager and there is no indication of his accountability
100% this, and the follow on from all these mediocre appointments is failure infield and who cops it in the neck? The coach.
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- Mar 21, 2020
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We've won 1 game out of 5, including a loss to Rich which should have been a % booster and we have % over 100
Just on that, I think you've been too generous with giving such little weighting to coaching/gameplan/player commitment
I'm not here to argue your percentages because it's impossible to quantify them and it's your opinion, but I cannot for the life of me see how a win (or loss) on Friday (by 1 point or 60 points) gives evidence of re-apportioning your %s
Ditto if we were to win the next 2 games...Your 'List Management' criteria can't change as this is the list we have. If personnel change due to selections and those selections prove to be the difference in a win, then that's 'Coaching/gameplan'
Also, those criteria are not mutually exclusive. If you were to draw a Venn Diagram, there would be overlap in them
IMHO...both the Rich and WB games were 100% coaching/gameplan/player commitment
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In summary, our board room is fractured, our football operations department is clueless, our coaches are fighting and our recruitment team is not aligned. We have started the season with 0-4 (1-4 now) and all talk is about our list isn’t good enough for success, failed our rebuild and we need a ‘ another reset’. Now we are also hearing senior players wanting out and/or we are shopping them around. Definitely nothing wrong with our club, culture or environment.
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I believe I have been consistent with my thoughts on all aspects, especially list management
The last off season was the most perplexing, exiting senior players (finally the long overdue injury prone) some of which were consist, durable best 22
While replacing them with draftees and an aging veteran role player and a couple of list fillers. This, for a side that was in ready to go mode
Add to that, the unavailability of best 22 and or 30
We still have a one paced midfield and small/medium forwards
In 5 off seasons, we have not addressed, speed, agility and footskills
IMHO, my thoughts on all other areas are currently status quo
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Who could do the "Petty" role? Lewis Young?
"the role he’s played as a key forward has been incredibly important to Melbourne’s improved ball movement. The easiest way to think of him is as a forward line anchor. In a positive sense, not negatively. The remaining forwards and/or midfielders pushing closer to goal all work off Petty’s positioning. Whether it’s smalls getting to his feet as he creates a pack, or leading players pushing up at the ball carrier, most of it is based off the anchor as a reference point.
In turn it creates greater spacing, a word foreign to anyone in Melbourne’s forward half for about the last three years. Incredibly enough, if forwards have ‘room’ to work in, then ‘good things’ happen. It’s a crazy concept"
"the role he’s played as a key forward has been incredibly important to Melbourne’s improved ball movement. The easiest way to think of him is as a forward line anchor. In a positive sense, not negatively. The remaining forwards and/or midfielders pushing closer to goal all work off Petty’s positioning. Whether it’s smalls getting to his feet as he creates a pack, or leading players pushing up at the ball carrier, most of it is based off the anchor as a reference point.
In turn it creates greater spacing, a word foreign to anyone in Melbourne’s forward half for about the last three years. Incredibly enough, if forwards have ‘room’ to work in, then ‘good things’ happen. It’s a crazy concept"
Teams moving in different directions: The Notebook, Round 11
Sunday afternoon at the MCG saw two teams moving in opposite directions.
theshinboner.com
agree...we need players that can kick...this facet of the game has, is and will cost us games if it isn't addressed.
what do coaches see that we don't...he is a ball magnetic...can run all day however his kicking is atrocious...I'm referring to Ollie (there are couple others) ...WTF play him off the 1/2 backline !!!...his position is wing.
fast forward this year's draft...I'd be going to market with HM and SW looking to get early picks to then trade out for cattle that fits our immediate needs.
Good analysis here by Jeff White of what we did well in Q1 v the rest of the game.
Talks about how we should better defend against the handball chains
Talks about how we should better defend against the handball chains
The whole team needs to see it.Don't post that here - send it to Aaron Hamill.
But remember not long ago I think it was Hird and Bartell pointing out that we soak back too far and conceded the transition too easily
Jacks Seething Rage
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You can see a semblance of system when we have the ball...but it disappears the moment we begin to get fatigued.
He highlights how ill-disciplined we are with defensive positioning...and have been forever. Maddening watching us continually collapse in on contests, and be drawn to the ball carrier like bugs to a zapper. Can't be that hard to hold a bit of shape.
We stopped more a lot more entries coming off our man than the scores we gave up. It always looks bad when it doesn’t work. That wasn’t our problem it was not hitting targets inside 50 in the 3. Cerra missed Motlop also had HOK on the lead and kicked it over his head. MCG took a shot from 60 when CC was open on the lead.
Gethelred
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In my opinion, these are the issues we have as a club.
List demographics. Our list is hampered - and this is something the club seems to be well aware of, as we're using this season as a development opportunity - by the fact that our best players outside Jack, Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Hollands are all over 30. We need to replace Haynes, Doc and Gov within two years, Saad needs to play lockdown rather than rebound and some rebounding defenders that don't turn the ball over need to be found.
Development of smalls, including but not limites to: wings, forward flanks, forward pockets, centre square midfielders.
Cripps and Hewitt cover something that we frankly have been awful at for ****ing years: developing AFL tanks and midfield hunger in draftees. We can go through the names if you like, but we've been awful at taking highly credentialled draftees and turning them into flankers and mids.
Our forward pocket issue has more to do - imo - with a gameplan that requires them all to start their run behind the ball defending, preventing them from getting to the balldrop unless they're top 5 in the comp for legspeed.
None of our players are top 5 in the comp for legspeed.
This is at least to some measure on list management. They've had three/four seasons to draft and develop some genuine bolters - "stand here when we don't have the ball, on turnover, contested mark or clearance break for the other end" isn't that hard to coach - and they just haven't.
Injury prevention and rehab. If the coach insists on players playing through injury, submit your resignation as protest. If a player is not ready, do not rush them back; if someone tries to force your hand, submit your resignation as protest. If a player wants to play but you don't think they're capable just yet, tell them that if they go through with it you will submit your resignation as protest.
You do this because being the Carlton doctors isn't good for your career if a mutt like Gary Lyon is going to feel free to abuse you and your credentials on live TV. Get it put in your contract that when/if you choose to resign in protest, you will go public with why. Force them to listen, because playing buddy-buddy clearly isn't working.
Conservative approach to gameplan and gameday coaching unless forced through list availability.
Flipping the script in 2023 when injury forced Fog into the side and swapping Young for Kemp and injury bring down Williams pushing Boyd forward down back led to a run the likes of which we haven't seen since. Moving Williams and Cincotta forward when Durdin and Motts were injures led to them kicking multiple bags and us sitting second for most of that season before the wheels fell off.
Why do we only innovate when forced by list availability?
A lot of people use the word culture when talking about the intangibles around the club, in terms of the interpersonal stuff and the synergy between departments. I prefer the term environment, with the need for a creative and innovative environment within the football department and a conservative player-first approach in injury-rehab. We clearly don't have this, and because we don't have this we lag behind the main players comp wide.
List demographics. Our list is hampered - and this is something the club seems to be well aware of, as we're using this season as a development opportunity - by the fact that our best players outside Jack, Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Hollands are all over 30. We need to replace Haynes, Doc and Gov within two years, Saad needs to play lockdown rather than rebound and some rebounding defenders that don't turn the ball over need to be found.
Development of smalls, including but not limites to: wings, forward flanks, forward pockets, centre square midfielders.
Cripps and Hewitt cover something that we frankly have been awful at for ****ing years: developing AFL tanks and midfield hunger in draftees. We can go through the names if you like, but we've been awful at taking highly credentialled draftees and turning them into flankers and mids.
Our forward pocket issue has more to do - imo - with a gameplan that requires them all to start their run behind the ball defending, preventing them from getting to the balldrop unless they're top 5 in the comp for legspeed.
None of our players are top 5 in the comp for legspeed.
This is at least to some measure on list management. They've had three/four seasons to draft and develop some genuine bolters - "stand here when we don't have the ball, on turnover, contested mark or clearance break for the other end" isn't that hard to coach - and they just haven't.
Injury prevention and rehab. If the coach insists on players playing through injury, submit your resignation as protest. If a player is not ready, do not rush them back; if someone tries to force your hand, submit your resignation as protest. If a player wants to play but you don't think they're capable just yet, tell them that if they go through with it you will submit your resignation as protest.
You do this because being the Carlton doctors isn't good for your career if a mutt like Gary Lyon is going to feel free to abuse you and your credentials on live TV. Get it put in your contract that when/if you choose to resign in protest, you will go public with why. Force them to listen, because playing buddy-buddy clearly isn't working.
Conservative approach to gameplan and gameday coaching unless forced through list availability.
Flipping the script in 2023 when injury forced Fog into the side and swapping Young for Kemp and injury bring down Williams pushing Boyd forward down back led to a run the likes of which we haven't seen since. Moving Williams and Cincotta forward when Durdin and Motts were injures led to them kicking multiple bags and us sitting second for most of that season before the wheels fell off.
Why do we only innovate when forced by list availability?
A lot of people use the word culture when talking about the intangibles around the club, in terms of the interpersonal stuff and the synergy between departments. I prefer the term environment, with the need for a creative and innovative environment within the football department and a conservative player-first approach in injury-rehab. We clearly don't have this, and because we don't have this we lag behind the main players comp wide.
What about the bench & sub…..
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1. On field leadership. We have none. Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Walsh have no presence. None stand up when required.
2. Lack of aggression. Always bullied. Never stand up to the opposition. Never get on the front foot and be the aggressor.
3. Skills. Our skills are deplorable. We miss so many targets by foot and hand. It kills our momentum time and time again. It clearly effects the players confidence.
4. Second half fade-outs. Is it physical or mental? The club needs to find out.
5. Lack of pride. The games against Port and particularly Collingwood were embarrassingly pathetic. Giving up without a wimper.
2. Lack of aggression. Always bullied. Never stand up to the opposition. Never get on the front foot and be the aggressor.
3. Skills. Our skills are deplorable. We miss so many targets by foot and hand. It kills our momentum time and time again. It clearly effects the players confidence.
4. Second half fade-outs. Is it physical or mental? The club needs to find out.
5. Lack of pride. The games against Port and particularly Collingwood were embarrassingly pathetic. Giving up without a wimper.
I often question why one of our most dependable ball users in Boyd can't get a sniff for senior selection.
Ollie, I kinda get that he is young and needs more game time to improve, but boy, I've gone through a few TVs watching him trying to execute kicks and tackles over the past 6 weeks...
We are 5th best for inside 50 per game.
So we have opportunities.
We are 16th for goals per inside 50
And 18th for scores per inside 50
So conversion remains our main issue.
On the defensive side we are 4th best for conceding inside 50 per game and middle of the road for scoring against us per entry.
Our six wins this year have been from our best seven "goals per inside 50" of the season
So we have opportunities.
We are 16th for goals per inside 50
And 18th for scores per inside 50
So conversion remains our main issue.
On the defensive side we are 4th best for conceding inside 50 per game and middle of the road for scoring against us per entry.
Our six wins this year have been from our best seven "goals per inside 50" of the season
10% - Coaching/Gameplan
There will come a point when Coaching/Gameplan will become an issue but at the moment, I think the gameplan is roughly there, we just cannot kick to save our lives. Even players that should be "solid" kicks are no longer showing any ability. Cerra and Walsh are not terrible kicks, but they've regressed over the years. The only player that has really impressed me this year with his kicking skills has been JSOS. Haynes and Weitering also make solid decisions, but we lack a zone busting kicking player. (Should be Saad or Boyd)
You can look slow or fast depending on how well you can kick a ball.
75% - List Management
We're always correct in hindsight, but many of our draft night moves have been head scratchers. You will only remember the players you hit on and forget the misses.
Just this year alone, I was big on Murphy Reid and Hannaford/Berry combination. Those players were around the mark at that point, I loved Tauru as another option. A number of years ago, Rivers was high on my hopes, I preferred Caldwell over Stocker. These guys are getting paid the big money to make these calls and they're missing more than hitting at times.
SOS was not the best and we've not improved a lot since those list management days.
10% - HP/Rehab
This is part recruitment and list management.
Jack Martin, Fantasia, McGovern, Williams - I swear they all came to the club with a very average ability to stay on the park long term. Then a few unlucky injuries and your rehab looks terrible.
5% - Player Commitment
The player commitment will wane as our form and hopes change, that is just human nature at times.
EDIT: Charlie Curnow's defensive efforts are something that needs to change, compare his efforts without the ball and Treacy's. Saad's ability to defend a forward line stoppage as hopeless as well. These are our leaders and don't paint a great picture for the rest of your team.
So, whats the circuit breaker?
We need to overhaul our list management but we've been left in a hole with our recent trades and not much light other than F/S's to come.
There will come a point when Coaching/Gameplan will become an issue but at the moment, I think the gameplan is roughly there, we just cannot kick to save our lives. Even players that should be "solid" kicks are no longer showing any ability. Cerra and Walsh are not terrible kicks, but they've regressed over the years. The only player that has really impressed me this year with his kicking skills has been JSOS. Haynes and Weitering also make solid decisions, but we lack a zone busting kicking player. (Should be Saad or Boyd)
You can look slow or fast depending on how well you can kick a ball.
75% - List Management
We're always correct in hindsight, but many of our draft night moves have been head scratchers. You will only remember the players you hit on and forget the misses.
Just this year alone, I was big on Murphy Reid and Hannaford/Berry combination. Those players were around the mark at that point, I loved Tauru as another option. A number of years ago, Rivers was high on my hopes, I preferred Caldwell over Stocker. These guys are getting paid the big money to make these calls and they're missing more than hitting at times.
SOS was not the best and we've not improved a lot since those list management days.
10% - HP/Rehab
This is part recruitment and list management.
Jack Martin, Fantasia, McGovern, Williams - I swear they all came to the club with a very average ability to stay on the park long term. Then a few unlucky injuries and your rehab looks terrible.
5% - Player Commitment
The player commitment will wane as our form and hopes change, that is just human nature at times.
EDIT: Charlie Curnow's defensive efforts are something that needs to change, compare his efforts without the ball and Treacy's. Saad's ability to defend a forward line stoppage as hopeless as well. These are our leaders and don't paint a great picture for the rest of your team.
So, whats the circuit breaker?
We need to overhaul our list management but we've been left in a hole with our recent trades and not much light other than F/S's to come.
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