Autopsy 2025 Round 18: Swans swindle slow Saints

[Teflon]

You don't hand it back. It's like saying not buying a new TV during the Boxing Day sale is handing your wage back.

Oh so you get to keep it forever?
Cool wasn’t aware in that case just wait and use it next year or 2
Got that right ?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Rowbottom (who had 15 tackles for the game) in Macrae’s pocket from the first bounce.

 

[SG34]

1 & 5
And he's been better as a defender than Cordy & Howard already.
And can get bulkier too.

Do you mean the old Howard? Or the Howard that is probably now?

1 & 5
And he's been better as a defender than Cordy & Howard already.
And can get bulkier too.

I would have thought Howard is miles in front, even now. But that is not knocking Hammer, just saying and that doesn’t take into account that Howard is getting on and out of practice. he won’t get better. maybe the question is, willl he even get back close to something like he was? He is not super heavy, so he might have the build to play on into his 30s, but hammies, calves and backs do have a habit of killing careers.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Was Wood playing predominantly in defence yesterday?

 

[akaifu]

Was Wood playing predominantly in defence yesterday?

Nominally wing but that involves a lot of defensive stuff so I guess you could say so

 

[saintbill]

I didn’t think yesterday was boring game style at all that’s just more BS to fabricate a go at coaching
Has coaching always been brilliant?
No
Do they need to answer why our entry into forward 50 is poor ?
Yes
In the scheme of things talent acquisition is no 1 priority development 2
Co ah and game plan will get a huge boost if we get that right

I can agree yesterday was one of the more entertaining games of the year.

Need to see more dynamic mid rotations now. NAS should just play the rest of the year in the middle. Give Hall a burst, give Owens a burst.

Time for Rossy boy to live a little.

 

[saintbill]

Was Wood playing predominantly in defence yesterday?

Wood was unbelievable in 23. Really has dropped off.

It's really the senior players that have killed our year. Wood and Hill have gone backwards. Steele just notched up his first coaches votes the entire year, Marshall is not playing well.

Even Sincs and Wilkie are down from previous output. Macrae started strong but has also fallen away.

Essentially 7 of our leaders have dropped off. That kills a team.

 

[Teflon]

Our list is in the best state it's been for a long time. We have a lot of super talented kids and older stars. We should be better than we are on the ladder. It's unbalanced and higher than average amounts of youth usually make for uneven performance but still underperforming.

Clubs like the Dogs, Swans and Cats can do soft rebuilds without major disruption. We need to do that. Not spend 5 years at the bottom wondering why we need to start again as all the senior players step out.

Our list has a bunch of ageing B-C grade players some are starting to stall see Hill let’s not guild the Lilly
At the other end we have some real potential- Tauru Trav Wilson Dodson Garcia Hastie Collard etc who might make it ….many might not ….they’re still unknown
Mid tier - Owens I’m not convinced is A grade territory same as Windy, Camma solid citizen Sharman good none elite - good players but A grade ???
Our small forwards look weak
Our mids lack genuine elite break away class
We are a genuine tall classy back short
Main ruck is ageing ….kids after that
List looks ok on paper mid age bracket is weaker ….IF 2-3 those kids turn out guns we are up and about but I’d say list still has massive questions over it ..

 

[Teflon]

Couldnt agree more -Sydney were always looking for that short chip kick-our forwards never lead at the ball carrier-hold it until all the swans get back then bomb it long -reckon it is our biggest on field issue

That’s something I do put at coaches feet
Why can’t our forward lead ????

 

[Teflon]

And you could also point out that we are the worst performed side in the league apart from WC over the last couple of months. Only St Kilda fans can get pumped about losses.

Having low standards and zero expectations has kept us shit. Other clubs have rebuilt twice since we started ours in 2012 and will finish their next one before us and Saints fans will be demanding patience.

Or just being real with where we are at
Did you expect to roll Sydney on their current form yesterday?
Or any of the top 8 sides we’ve played what ….last 5-6 weeks??

 

[BrutThough]

Or just being real with where we are at
Did you expect to roll Sydney on their current form yesterday?
Or any of the top 8 sides we’ve played what ….last 5-6 weeks??

Exactly. Outside of the West Coast game (which was a disaster), we probably havent been expected to win any of the games we've played. Maybe Carlton but they did beat Geelong at the G two weeks beforehand so it was a real 50/50 match.

Our fixture has been brutal with few games against the teams around us up to this point. Looking just at win/loss compared to those around us isnt telling the full story when we've been performing better then expected against teams in the top 9.

 

[Teflon]

The stat actually tells your for the season we're pretty decent in comparison to our ladder position.

We were 7th for i50 conversions to goals and 10th for total points per game prior to this round starting.

Overall defence and getting it inside 50 enough have been more of an issue

Stats probably don’t tell you how many turnovers or non scores going into 50 we stuff up
Watching games live you see it time and again
Last kick into 50 is rarely a drilled kick to a lead up forward - it’s often a bomb in that comes out
We lock it and eventually scrap a goal but the entry strategy looks poor
Watch Pies - they don’t waste it they kick to their forwards advantage and are always looking for the lead up chip kick in for a shot on goal (they also have forwards who can kick a drop punt from 25 out direct in front of……Higgins??? Owens ???? Even Butler seems to struggle at that distance … but yeah our entries aren’t great

 

[saintbill]

Or just being real with where we are at
Did you expect to roll Sydney on their current form yesterday?
Or any of the top 8 sides we’ve played what ….last 5-6 weeks??

Sorry but Sydney are not a good football team. Very much mid table at best. Got smashed by Dees, lost to Bombers, got done by close to 100 by the Crows only a month ago. They have beaten the Dockers at home, just. That is their "winning" formline.

It's hardly a massive call to expect us to beat them on our home deck after being in a commanding position for 80% of the game.

 

[WRFL Indentity]

Wood was unbelievable in 23. Really has dropped off.

It's really the senior players that have killed our year. Wood and Hill have gone backwards. Steele just notched up his first coaches votes the entire year, Marshall is not playing well.

Even Sincs and Wilkie are down from previous output. Macrae started strong but has also fallen away.

Essentially 7 of our leaders have dropped off. That kills a team.

I really believe, particularly in the case of Wood, Sinclair and Wilkie, that King and Howard's respective extended absences has been a key contributing factor to their "drop off"

Wood has had to play more or a key forward/target role, which he is not suited to, Wilkie has had to take a more traditional defender-type role, which has limited his influence and Sinclair has had to do more of the attacking, as well as being tagged (to an extent), placing more pressure on his disposal and decision making.

 

[saintbill]

I really believe, particularly in the case of Wood, Sinclair and Wilkie, that King and Howard's respective extended absences has been a key contributing factor to their "drop off"

Wood has had to play more or a key forward/target role, which he is not suited to, Wilkie has had to take a more traditional defender-type role, which has limited his influence and Sinclair has had to do more of the attacking, as well as being tagged (to an extent), placing more pressure on his disposal and decision making.

Let's hope they can get back to there best next year. We have seen with the Pies and Cats, that having your senior players in form is huge in terms of having a good season.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Jeepers, that 2 minutes from hell in the first for Tauru!

First, the dreadful pass across goal to Hill, which Heeney pounced on for a goal, then, from the following centre bounce, he was way too far behind his opponent, who took an uncontested mark from the centre clearance and slotted the goal, then from the next centre bounce, he gave away that free kick off the ball to Francis, and they played on and jammed through a third in 2 minutes.

Then their next goal 5 mins later again came from Alix letting his opponent go up to the 45m mark on his own, as he hung back a bit, and he got hit up and slotted the goal.

4 goals in about 7 minutes.

And that was 4 of Sydney’s 5 goals for the first half, with the only other one being from that mistake of a free kick early in the first, when both Hammer and Maclean had a handful of each others jumpers, but Hammer got pinged.

This is the only difference between us and these good teams at the moment.

We have these babies learning on the job, making very costly mistakes (another being the horror turnover in the 3rd quarter by Moose, which they scored from seconds later, and Hastie’s turnover and free kick goals last week, etc), while these teams we’re playing week after week are hardened and experienced and don’t necessarily have any babies learning on the job. Or running out of puff, like Box in particular.

We’re doing a hell of a lot right outside of that.

And remember, from our 17 games, we’ve only played 5 against bottom 8 teams. Our other 12 have been against the clear best 10 teams right now. Including Sydney and Freo on winning streaks.

We’re probably going to move up 3 places by R24.

 

[Teflon]

Sorry but Sydney are not a good football team. Very much mid table at best. Got smashed by Dees, lost to Bombers, got done by close to 100 by the Crows only a month ago. They have beaten the Dockers at home, just. That is their "winning" formline.

It's hardly a massive call to expect us to beat them on our home deck after being in a commanding position for 80% of the game.

As Roo said tonight on TV - right now on form Sydney are probably top 5 in the comp
You’re doing it again Bill generalising over the full year ….not same Swans side that was playing 5 weeks ago mate credit where it’s due
We played well yesterday - coaches got the side to show up and with 6 kids less than 20 games were in it up to our eye balls
Now repeat after me Bill Ross and the coaches actually didn’t do a bad job yesterday. See it’s not that hard…..

 

[Diehard Saint]

I assume that means top drawer?

Considering we never actually get a top draw I’d assume your assumption is correct

 

[saintbill]

As Roo said tonight on TV - right now on form Sydney are probably top 5 in the comp
You’re doing it again Bill generalising over the full year ….not same Swans side that was playing 5 weeks ago mate credit where it’s due
We played well yesterday - coaches got the side to show up and with 6 kids less than 20 games were in it up to our eye balls
Now repeat after me Bill Ross and the coaches actually didn’t do a bad job yesterday. See it’s not that hard…..

Swans form is best 5 in comp is it? Wowee

Cmon mate, did you even check their formline, or do you just lap up whatever excuses your boyfriend Ross throws up?

Swans have beaten Freo at home, lost to Dogs, beat Port, and beat the almighty Tigers. The 3 weeks prior to that stretch, they lost to Crows on their home deck by 90, the week before the Dees beat them by about 10 goals, week before that they lost to Bombers ffs.

That is there last 7 weeks of footy. 3-4 with some almighty beltings and 1 win against the 8th placed Dockers

Get your hand off it mate, if you and Ross think that is the formline of a top 5 team in the comp you are dead set on drugs.

 

[littlecreatures]

Jeepers, that 2 minutes from hell in the first for Tauru!

First, the dreadful pass across goal to Hill, which Heeney pounced on for a goal, then, from the following centre bounce, he was way too far behind his opponent, who took an uncontested mark from the centre clearance and slotted the goal, then from the next centre bounce, he gave away that free kick off the ball to Francis, and they played on and jammed through a third in 2 minutes.

Then their next goal 5 mins later again came from Alix letting his opponent go up to the 45m mark on his own, as he hung back a bit, and he got hit up and slotted the goal.

4 goals in about 7 minutes.

And that was 4 of Sydney’s 5 goals for the first half, with the only other one being from that mistake of a free kick early in the first, when both Hammer and Maclean had a handful of each others jumpers, but Hammer got pinged.

This is the only difference between us and these good teams at the moment.

We have these babies learning on the job, making very costly mistakes (another being the horror turnover in the 3rd quarter by Moose, which they scored from seconds later, and Hastie’s turnover and free kick goals last week, etc), while these teams we’re playing week after week are hardened and experienced and don’t necessarily have any babies learning on the job. Or running out of puff, like Box in particular.

We’re doing a hell of a lot right outside of that.

And remember, from our 17 games, we’ve only played 5 against bottom 8 teams. Our other 12 have been against the clear best 10 teams right now. Including Sydney and Freo on winning streaks.

We’re probably going to move up 3 places by R24.

The crux of the issue is an unbalanced list so we’ve basically got a bunch of ageing senior players carrying the load who aren’t steering the ship (Marshall and Sinc’s in stoppage for final goal from Gulden is a perfect example).

Then, we’ve got Lyon and selection managing expectations with playing the kids and balancing having enough senior heads when the reality is we need to pull the pin on a bunch of players.

I think it all stems from the failed rebuild and sugar hit from 2019-20 when we really should have looked at pushing out the initial rebuild while restructuring the horrendous footy department.

We’re in this doom loop of paying for prior sins then simultaneously a victim of the AFL’s poor equalisation.

That said, if we keep Nas (along with Hall, Windy, etc) correct some issues with the spine this off season (e.g., TDK and Aleer) and continue to build through the draft (e.g., Greeves, Pou 2.0, Fincher) I think it can turn. This off season is make or break.

 

[aussierulesrules]

One thing I’ve noticed with Tauru is that he has seemingly no fear at all to kick to a bloke who has an opponent trailing close behind him, even down back, where such kicks are dangerous.

Obviously he made a mess of the kick to Hill (was hugely risky, but could have come off if he’d kept it lower and out in front of Brad, not sit it on his head, with Heeney stalking), yet even after that cost us a goal, he then kicked one to Henry in the middle of the centre square later in the game, with a bloke right up Liam’s clacker, which he held strongly, and he’s done a handful of similar kicks in his other games as well.

Kicks into dangerous parts of the ground to guys with someone trailing close behind, yet he takes these kicks- that most wouldn’t generally risk taking- like it’s nothing.

And the only one he’s missed so far was the Hill one.

The kid has stones.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

One thing I’ve noticed with Tauru is that he has seemingly no fear at all to kick to a bloke who has an opponent trailing close behind him, even down back, where such kicks are dangerous.

Obviously he made a mess of the kick to Hill (was hugely risky, but could have come off if he’d kept it lower and out in front of Brad, not sit it on his head, with Heeney stalking), yet even after that cost us a goal, he then kicked one to Henry in the middle of the centre square later in the game, with a bloke right up Liam’s clacker, which he held strongly, and he’s done a handful of similar kicks in his other games as well.

Kicks into dangerous parts of the ground to guys with someone trailing close behind, yet he takes these kicks- that most wouldn’t generally risk taking- like it’s nothing.

And the only one he’s missed so far was the Hill one.

The kid has stones.

He missed a howler to Wilkie last week or the week before but I agree with the sentiment - doesn’t look to be fazed by much if anything

 

[Ads734]

The only time I've seen people being tough on him was when he'd had the half from hell. He looked like the worst player on the ground by a massive margin. People were equally as positive once he turned it around.

Sorry not people on here , Gringo more casual saints folk.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

You don’t have to be a genius to work out why Ross wants a ruckman after Marshall’s last two weeks. How can someone be 200cm and 105kg and be so physically weak?

Know who has the exact same weakness as Ro (but lacks his aerial ability)?

 

[mad-saint-guy]

OK, so what’s your verdict on Caminiti as a defender?

Have you seen enough to convince you,
1) he’ll be a defender for sure, and a solid lock in each week, steadily ‘learning his trade’
2) I haven’t made my mind up about his position, but he’s too valuable to delist or trade
3) I think he’s honestly better suited up forward or maybe on a wing, basically not as a key defender
4) delist or trade or Sandy as a backup
5) I’d prefer not to discuss Hammer. It’s healthier for us all to blame Hill for everything.

Firmly option 1. I think Hammer is showing great promise as a defender and just lacks the footy nous and skill to be a forward. But, give him a full pre season training in defence next year and I think the Wilkie/Caminiti/Tauru combo can be an outstanding defensive group.

I can see him steadily improving and suddenly becoming an AA smoky in a couple of years if we commit to him being a defender. He has the athletic traits, will get stronger and will improve his decision making with more experience.