Game Day RD 24 vs. Melbourne. Fri 22/08 @ 7:10pm (MCG)

[IlovethePies]

Unfortunately Cox doesn't bring the ball to ground anymore. He gets bodied out of every contest and doesn't get his hands on the ball. It's just wishful thinking these days. Against Port Melbourne, their ruckman and Cox didn't even match each other up around the ground, they just run around by themselves without accountability. I'd love for Cox to come in and be that target but he just offers nothing. Side's have been flooding heavily against us.

I agree Manic with you for once about Cox
I think that teams have a key strategy against us with flooding, and we have not as yet got an effective answer. I think the presence of Cox would hinder us in finding the necessary answer, which has to be to change both the way and the speed in which we move the ball. Cox's presence would actually be detrimental in making these adjustments, and it is clear that unless we have the ability to switch quickly to a different mode when flooding begins, we aren't going to win a Premiership.
So yeah, I'm no longer calling for Cox to come in.
Edit: Sorry Leon. It really hurt me to write the above paragraph.

 

[SchuPie]

I think we can win it from any position on the 8…but at some point I really think we’re going to need Bobby



I also want Roan in

 

[manicpie]

I agree Manic with you for once about Cox
I think that teams have a key strategy against us with flooding, and we have not as yet got an effective answer. I think the presence of Cox would hinder us in finding the necessary answer, which has to be to change both the way and the speed in which we move the ball. Cox's presence would actually be detrimental in making these adjustments, and it is clear that unless we have the ability to switch quickly to a different mode when flooding begins, we aren't going to win a Premiership.
So yeah, I'm no longer calling for Cox to come in.

As we speak, Cox is in consideration for this week

 

[swoop42]

Cox 2.4 from his 8 games this season.

McStay 2.5 from his last 6 games.

What was once a clear selling point for McStay over Cox in my mind is now suddenly close to a nil all draw when it comes to forward line impact.

So if neither are offering much as a forward target the discussion then needs to move to what else either can bring that might be of benefit to the team.

Prior to the return of Frampton McStay as a break glass defensive option might have been a consideration and an added reason for his retention. That moment has now passed.

So that leaves the ability of each in the 2nd ruck position and it's hard not to make a case Cox doesn't have a clear advantage over McStay in this role at least.

Right now that simply might be enough and his inclusion is as much about opening up greater possibilities in how we can use Cameron as it is Cox and his individual exploits.

While the intercept marking of Cameron has been a highlight we don't want to lose, could the inclusion of Cox allow us to send him forward for more minutes a quarter? Right now he looks to be the only one with the potential of taking a contested mark in a flooded F50.

While Cox isn't the player he was back in 2023 we saw how critical he became when partnering a banged up Cameron at the end of the season.

Cameron might be in healthier condition this time around but for a player who has played every game introducing Cox now could aid in reducing the work load and stress on his body at just the right moment.

Finally given the sheer size of Cox, when faced with an opposition with a similarly imposing first ruck it's often been debated as to whether he's actually more influential with his tap work than Cameron under these circumstances.

While I'm certainly no Cox fanboy there is something to be said for maintaining selection integrity and even if it only ends up being for 1 week dropping McStay will send a clear message to anyone feeling remotely comfortable that past deeds or status has them secured inside our 23.

Form matters!

 

[leon123]

Cox 2.4 from his 8 games this season.

McStay 2.5 from his last 6 games.

What was once a clear selling point for McStay over Cox in my mind is now suddenly close to a nil all draw when it comes to forward line impact.

So if neither are offering much as a forward target the discussion then needs to move to what else either can bring that might be of benefit to the team.

Prior to the return of Frampton McStay as a break glass defensive option might have been a consideration and an added reason for his retention. That moment has now passed.

So that leaves the ability of each in the 2nd ruck position and it's hard not to make a case Cox doesn't have a clear advantage over McStay in this role at least.

Right now that simply might be enough and his inclusion is as much about opening up greater possibilities in how we can use Cameron as it is Cox and his individual exploits.

While the intercept marking of Cameron has been a highlight we don't want to lose, could the inclusion of Cox allow us to send him forward for more minutes a quarter? Right now he looks to be the only one with the potential of taking a contested mark in a flooded F50.

While Cox isn't the player he was back in 2023 we saw how critical he became when partnering a banged up Cameron at the end of the season.

Cameron might be in healthier condition this time around but for a player who has played every game introducing Cox now could aid in reducing the work load and stress on his body at just the right moment.

Finally given the sheer size of Cox, when faced with an opposition with a similarly imposing first ruck it's often been debated as to whether he's actually more influential with his tap work than Cameron under these circumstances.

While I'm certainly no Cox fanboy there is something to be said for maintaining selection integrity and even if it only ends up being for 1 week dropping McStay will send a clear message to anyone feeling remotely comfortable that past deeds or status has them secured inside our 23.

Form matters!

Cox it is then.... most likely would be his last game as well

 

[IlovethePies]

I think we can win it from any position on the 8…but at some point I really think we’re going to need Bobby



I also want Roan in

We need to have an alternative plan to including Bobby. Bruzza made that clear. maybe Roan in is it?

 

[bunter]

if we're fair dinkum, should be a comfortable win. 5-6 goals.

We need all the games we can get to play ourselves back into form. We haven't lost our weapons and will be a fearsome finals team. They wont want to play us.
My logic if we finish outside the top 4.

 

[IlovethePies]

if we're fair dinkum, should be a comfortable win. 5-6 goals.

We need all the games we can get to play ourselves back into form. We haven't lost our weapons and will be a fearsome finals team. They wont want to play us.
My logic if we finish outside the top 4.

Yep, given what is at stake for us, if we are serious about winning the flag, flogging Melbourne is the expected outcome.

 

[Kes1984]

Flys presser was interesting. Definitely have to read into it that Cox could be coming in for McStay.

I’m ok with that. Said a few times I would like us to roll the dice one more time on Coxy. He matches up better on Gawn.

Right now, can’t see him offering less than McStay in recent games. Damn sure he’ll over a lot more in the ruck.

 

[nickyds35]

tbh - prefer to play Adelaide away in in a qualifying final.

This way, either way, we have the opportunity to play a prelim at the MCG, whether it is by beating Adelaide in the Qualifying Final, or losing, then winning our way through to a prelim against Geelong.

If this is the case, we are back even, with a home prelim.

Worst case would be to play Adelaide away in a prelim, as even if we win, we would be cooked for the GF.

 

[Masked Magician]

tbh - prefer to play Adelaide away in in a qualifying final.

This way, either way, we have the opportunity to play a prelim at the MCG, whether it is by beating Adelaide in the Qualifying Final, or losing, then winning our way through to a prelim against Geelong.

If this is the case, we are back even, with a home prelim.

Worst case would be to play Adelaide away in a prelim, as even if we win, we would be cooked for the GF.

and what if Geelong lose their QF?

 

[IlovethePies]

In a certain sense, the fact that teams have chosen flooding our forward line as a key tactic against us is a testament to the strength of our system.

They are essentially admitting that our defence across the ground and our capacity to attack through the corridor should we ahve the chance is leading them to adopt a kind of nil all stalemate plan once they get a lead or even relative equality on the scoreboard, banking on errors from us in trying to penetrate the flood by bombing it in and hoping for a miraculous contested mark.

But flooding is a predictable strategy in itself, and there must be a means for us to exploit it tactically when the oppositin starts doing it.

 

[satty]

Checkers won’t be dropped despite his poor game last week. They’ll back him in.

Fly basically indicated it is McStay or Cox. Someone has to second ruck.

The way checkers got towelled by keane shows that he needs a week of to reset himself.

 

[Peters_Nuts]

The way checkers got towelled by keane shows that he needs a week of to reset himself.

He gets one next week. Good opportunity to find form this week

 

[nickyds35]

and what if Geelong lose their QF?

Then lets hope we win the QF

 

[satty]

I would play Mcstay because it allows us to sub out cox and still have a second ruck.

I think mcstay’s performance is also due into part to poor connection between the mids and forwards.

 

[BillyElliott]

The way checkers got towelled by keane shows that he needs a week of to reset himself.

He'll get a week off after the Dees match.

 

[IlovethePies]

^Will be interesting to see how we respond if Melbourne starts flooding our forward line like everyone else.
I think Fly's presser made very clear that we are working on a refutation to this. But will we be prepared to expose it one week out from finals??

Maybe only partially i reckon.

 

[satty]

He'll get one a week off after the Dees match.

If he gets beaten badly again, then you have to start asking the question if the contract talks are taking a heavy toll.

 

[satty]

^Will be interesting to see how we respond if Melbourne starts flooding our forward line like everyone else.
I think Fly's presser made very clear that we are working on a refutation to this. But will we be prepared to expose it one week out from finals??

Maybe only partially i reckon.

Well the best way to beat this is speed. Get a forward entry before the opposition defense has a chance to transition back and flood their defense.

So following the corridor game plan of the first quarter against the crows would be one way of countering a flood defense.

 

[BillyElliott]

If he gets beaten badly again, then you have to start asking the question if the contract talks are taking a heavy toll.

You can ask that question. It seems counterproductive to me. Best way to get the extension you're after is to play to your best ability I would have thought.

Crows defence were magnificent on Saturday.

 

[SchuPie]

We need to have an alternative plan to including Bobby. Bruzza made that clear. maybe Roan in is it?

Roan is out up-and-down the ground runner
Bobby is needed in F50

 

[IlovethePies]

Fly keeps referring to poor connection between mids and forwards. In my mind, this is primarily due to opposition flooding. This is one of the purposes of flooding, to break prevent our forwards from using their ability to co-ordinate with the mids in their leads, thereby creating marking targets etc within our I50. It is clearly in my mind why Elliott's performance has seemed to drop off.

Our team has within its DNA the system based connectivity, nothing can take that away. It is now ingrained. This is why the opposition has resorted to a tactic which disrupts it, even if they themselves can't easily score when they run back into their own defence.

So to counter it, we'll need to unleash an unusual type of ball movement. If the opposition is intent on running backwards, surely we can find a way to do this. In the first qr against Adelaide, we stunned them with the way in which we kicked to angles and varied the direction the ball was moving.

We need to bring these skills to bear in developing a counter strategy.

 

[IlovethePies]

Roan is out up-and-down the ground runner
Bobby is needed in F50

Maybe with Roan in, JDG can more often play as a forward.

 

[Kirby]

The way checkers got towelled by keane shows that he needs a week of to reset himself.

I don’t agree. He will fight back.

Btw, if he misses this game like you suggest he’ll then go 3 weeks between games because of the bye.

You play your best team this week.