USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You being out of the loop doesn't mean he wasn't extremely famous.

He has 5.6 million twitter followers and more than that on tik tok. He was literally on stage with Donald Trump when Trump won the election.

Was that before or after Elon did the sieg heil?

 

[ElectricG]

If people want to humiliate themselves because they don't have any kind of rational argument yet are willing to take up the microphone, that's on them.

Hopefully those kids will go away and actually ponder their beliefs, which is the entire point of debate.

It may even reinforce them, which is totally fine but people should constantly assess what they think and how it affects them directly and those around them.

Spoken like someone who had the luxury of growing up before this age of social media. Sure these know-nothing, shit for brain kids “know what they’re getting into”. But again, I see no dignity or decency in courting debate with young people who clearly have a lot of disfunction in their lives, posting the videos online and calling them losers and idiots in the title.

 

[happy_eagle]

Blackrock is leftist. Interesting.

Famous liberal institutions Blackrock and McKinsey.

 

[damicky]

It would appear as though you did not read the entire message.

The point Kisin makes is that Charlie was not a politician. He dedicated his movement to visiting university campuses and engaging in respectable debate. That is what makes this one different. He had nought to do with political decision making or the spending of taxpayers money. He tried to persuade people with logical argument.

The man was a huge presence. I have heard comparisons being made to Martin Luther King. Only time will tell if that claim is credible. But there is no doubt of his influence on hundreds of thousands of young minds.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Yep, no one needs to see it and I'd be concerned with those actively seeking out and sharing the footage.

Was trying to enjoy my smoko thismorning by looking at the latest trade bullshit on Twitter and copped the video, before I had even realised what I was watching I had seen it all

Can’t believe how easily it is to watch something like that by accident

 

[damicky]

For telling the truth?

Watch some of his videos.

Far right Christo-fascist drivel.

I was trying to be ironic

 

[31400]

He flew in Trump's plane with him.

He was a part of the big conservative/fascist festivals.

He was 100% political. He was right there drumming up support for how money was spent in the US.

I am well aware of his support for Trump's campaign.

My original point still stands - he was NOT a politician. Nor did he ever spend a cent of taxpayers money or make a decision that affected legislation in the US.

 

[sherb]

Kirk was literally thousands of times more popular than the recent politicians who were attacked, it's very different.

If Sandy Hook wasn't the line in the sand then nothing will be.

As for Kirk's situation being "very different", try telling that to Gabby Giffords for example.

 

[bzparkes]

Spoken like someone who had the luxury of growing up before this age of social media. Sure these know-nothing, shit for brain kids “know what they’re getting into”. But again, I see no dignity or decency in courting debate with young people who clearly have a lot of disfunction in their lives, posting the videos online and calling them losers and idiots in the title.

Are they Kirk videos, or are they other people cutting up clips to try and build channels/social media presence? I've seen plenty of the latter. If he's done it in his own videos("Stupid college student gets SCHOOLED", or something similar) then that's poor and I can certainly see no good coming from that.

As an aside, being treated with kid gloves constantly fails to develop resilience. When you become an adult, you're going to meet people in real life(the workforce, out in pub, etc) who aren't going to treat you kindly. It sucks but to be a functional adult you need to know how to deal with it.

 

[sherb]

Please.

Floyd was a thug and a criminal, who had a pre existing health condition that sadly contributed to his death. And he probably had zero net positive impact on the life of a single American youth.

Your comparison is flawed - and that is a gross understatement.

Ah yes, blame the victim.

 

[ElectricG]

Are they Kirk videos, or are they other people cutting up clips to try and build channels/social media presence? I've seen plenty of the latter. If he's done it in his own videos("Stupid college student gets SCHOOLED", or something similar) then that's poor and I can certainly see no good coming from that.

As an aside, being treated with kid gloves constantly fails to develop resilience. When you become an adult, you're going to meet people in real life(the workforce, out in pub, etc) who aren't going to treat you kindly. It sucks but to be a functional adult you need to know how to deal with it.

I absolutely agree with the notion that young people do not face enough challenges to appropriately prepare them for adult life. But I don’t agree that their supreme and eternal embarrassment online should be one of those challenges.

 

[bzparkes]

I absolutely agree with the notion that young people do not face enough challenges to appropriately prepare them for adult life. But I don’t agree that their supreme and eternal embarrassment online should be one of those challenges.

Oh for sure. They can always try to get the video taken down if they don't want to appear in it though. YT will usually infract videos that have complaints from people in them.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Are they Kirk videos, or are they other people cutting up clips to try and build channels/social media presence? I've seen plenty of the latter. If he's done it in his own videos("Stupid college student gets SCHOOLED", or something similar) then that's poor and I can certainly see no good coming from that.

As an aside, being treated with kid gloves constantly fails to develop resilience. When you become an adult, you're going to meet people in real life(the workforce, out in pub, etc) who aren't going to treat you kindly. It sucks but to be a functional adult you need to know how to deal with it.

Kirk was very much a "own the libz" video guy.

To quote Keating "all tip no iceberg".

 

[DaRick]

always thought it odd the christian right went after bands like priest* when they could have easily gone after overtly satanic bands like venom, merciful fate etc ...... go figure

* on the strength of such flimsy nonsensical evidence as playing songs backward - and only at a certain rpm

The latter two would have been virtually known in the US, whereas Judas Priest were very successful there. They were a much more visible target.

Also, two young people shot themselves after listening to one of their records, so that gave the moral outrage brigade every excuse to go after them.

 

[Gralin]

Oh for sure. They can always try to get the video taken down if they don't want to appear in it though. YT will usually infract videos that have complaints from people in them.

Can they?

 

[bzparkes]

Can they?

Yes. YT take videos down all the time for the slightest of reasons. I daresay these students would need to provide some kind of consent to appear in those videos before taking up the mic.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Man, if only there was this much outrage when those poor innocent people were gunned down in the masses at their schools, churches, universities, music events and night clubs.

Or the lack of outrage at the Minnesota Democrats being murdered, did Trump even end up making a phone call?

No outrage with people calling for Obama and Hillary to be assassinated the past 10 years on Twitter/X. Or Kirk himself looking all smug when he praised the Pelosi hammer attacker, and said the guy should get bail.

But soon as its one of their own involved. The world turns to chaos.

I guess the motto should be. "F**k everyone else, unless its one of our own"

I never liked Kirk, his selective debates and heavy editing to make him look better than he is, is typical of MAGA influencers. He gets smashed when he comes up against calm debaters. His repeated racist views and comments. Him citing gun deaths as being necessary to keep the 2nd. Comments about how he would force his daughter to have her rapists baby, should she be the victim of one at 10 years old. Him gloating about Pelosis attacker.

But NO one should be gunned down for no reason, regardless their views.

But lets get two things right. The shooter has NOT been caught yet. And already the shooting was because of his views, and Trump is screaming a left wing lunatic. I feel for Kirk, as it shows that even for their own base. Empathy takes the back seat, to desperately being on the front foot to politicize it.

 

[DaRick]

Oh yeah no doubt.

I interpreted the "crossed the line" as not so much a reference to violence but from the shift from the United to the Divided States of America.

They lost the ability to engage with each other a while ago now.

As I've said before, I'm a bit surprised that the USA hasn't officially fragmented yet, because it has in all but name.

The USA has survived an unusually long time for a multi-ethnic federation.

 

[strauchy]

Kirk was trying to educate, especially brainwashed students who follow the crowd..wrongly. He spread logic. Some people don’t like logic.

Imagine hating someone’s opinion so much you feel the need to pull the trigger. Absolutely horrible. Thoughts are with his family

 

[Kappa]

"Being out of the loop", and that's a good thing, who in their right mind would engage in the right wing grifter podcasts where they constantly advocate for violence and division? If you're in the loop then you need to get out of it

"Extremely famous", please, don't think your world represents everyone else's, yours is just a tiny echo chamber

Using twitter followers to prove someone's famous is certainly a choice, twitter is mostly bot these days, and loads of other random influencers no one's ever heard of also has millions of followers, twitter isn't real life

He is objectively very well known on every possible metric, I have no idea why you're arguing this, it's okay to be wrong. I never said I was a fan of his. I actually object to most of his religious-related opinions, and his stance on gun control.

 

[bzparkes]

I guess the motto should be. "F**k everyone else, unless its one of our own"

This is the attitude of both sides of the political spectrum these days, and has been for a long time. It's not exclusive to the Republicans/right.

 

[neko]

I agreed with Kirk once in a blue moon and generally opposed him, but I'm dismayed at the shooting and my thoughts are with his family. We should be able to engage in discourse without assassinating people we disagree with, assuming the killing was socially/politically motivated.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Was trying to enjoy my smoko thismorning by looking at the latest trade bullshit on Twitter and copped the video, before I had even realised what I was watching I had seen it all

Can’t believe how easily it is to watch something like that by accident

Yeah I've been deliberately avoiding twitter, facebook ect. and switching the channel whenever a newsbreak came on (not that it would be shown on main stream news).

 

[TiAn_]

He is objectively very well known on every possible metric, I have no idea why you're arguing this, it's okay to be wrong. I never said I was a fan of his. I actually object to most of his religious-related opinions, and his stance on gun control.

99% of Australians would have NFI who he was, and that’s being conservative.

 

[Cooldude]

He is objectively very well known on every possible metric, I have no idea why you're arguing this, it's okay to be wrong. I never said I was a fan of his. I actually object to most of his religious-related opinions, and his stance on gun control.

"Objectively", please, nobody who said anything is objective is ever objective. 99% of the world don't know who TF this bloke is