Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FF *Guilty Overturned on Appeal
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FM *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

WT - William Tyrrell
FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Leon Higgins]

I am going to put the best possible spin on this. I thought about this for some time.

Leon Higgins facts of the inquest.,

The timeline is off limits.
The Foster parents were not cross examined
The FGM was not cross examined.
The police were not allowed to pedal their nonsense.
The witnesses called bore no real bearing on the case.

It is really unusual for the primary witnesses not to be cross examined at an inquest. Why.

I think the reason is as I have intimated is to protect a further potential prosecution. I find it hard to believe these people are so stupid as to not question everything. Maybe the inquest was theatre and maybe they are still monitoring them.

You can disagree politely please don't attack. I am just putting this out there as a possibility.

 

[31550]

The police claimed they did confiscate all items in the days following but in the FGM walkthrough, you can clearly see a computer on the bench. What they are saying is not true. They are ass covering.

"In the days following" is not immediate. Pointless.

 

[Underarrest_]

Media reported police saying that ("We know how, we know where ... " ) on one occasion. I'm not sure it was a public statement made on behalf of NSWPOL. It was given in evidence in court in Nov 2022 by Sergeant Andrew Lonergan during the hearing into FM giving false evidence to the NSWCC. 'I've formed the view (the foster mother) knows where William Tyrrell is' . That is clearly an opinion, not a statement of fact. It might have been a police tactic to pressure FM.

On other occasions, other police have made comments which indicate a contrary opinion.

We do know that at one stage, police thought they might have enough evidence to charge FM with disposing of William's body, and referred to the DPP. But charges have never been brought on that account.

IMO the case is 'cold' and might as well be declared as such by NSWPOL. There is no evidence they are actively pursuing it any more. Or that they want to. And the coroner isn't interested in hearing anything more from NSWPOL. They won't go to court with what they've currently got. They won't look for anything else. They won't go back over old ground. They have no compelling evidence and no leads. That's a cold case.

I’m hoping police won’t give up on William. Police did a good job and went to great lengths with the Daniel Morcombe case (although missed what was in plain sight at the beginning.) There’s still hope.

 

[Jim Cricket]

My guess it would have not have been simple but, very very difficult. In Bali, to even find the store, let alone who served them. As if they would even remember. Maybe there was a receipt, maybe not.

Unpackage and routinely, or even occasionally, set up the camera for a customer, I don't think so. Didn't FF also have some other cameras and IT. So would have been very easy for them to do this themselves.

The clock on my oven isn't set, it just flashes 0.00. This is because I don't need it. Unless you're including the time stamp on pictures you don't usually need the clock to be set on a camera, which is why the fosters probably hadn't set it. None of the pictures include time stamps from the camera, it's only in the metadata.

 

[Jim Cricket]

I am going to put the best possible spin on this. I thought about this for some time.

Leon Higgins facts of the inquest.,

The timeline is off limits.
The Foster parents were not cross examined
The FGM was not cross examined.
The police were not allowed to pedal their nonsense.
The witnesses called bore no real bearing on the case.

It is really unusual for the primary witnesses not to be cross examined at an inquest. Why.

I think the reason is as I have intimated is to protect a further potential prosecution. I find it hard to believe these people are so stupid as to not question everything. Maybe the inquest was theatre and maybe they are still monitoring them.

You can disagree politely please don't attack. I am just putting this out there as a possibility.

Aside from the novel by CO is there another source for the timeline of the fosters being off limits? It sounds made up. AFAIK the coroner is a gatherer of information and would get most of it from existing sources, so often there'd be no need to find their own evidence. If the crime commission, police and whoever else have asked the questions the coroner will have the answers in their records and I'd think the coroner would only ask questions of that evidence to clear things up and then pursue their own evidence when they think something hasn't already been covered. They don't throw out all the previously gathered evidence and do it all over again.

 

[Leon Higgins]

"In the days following" is not immediate. Pointless.

I was just pointing out their statements were not even true. They didn't seize all devices at all.

 

[Leon Higgins]

I’m hoping police won’t give up on William. Police did a good job and went to great lengths with the Daniel Morcombe case (although missed what was in plain sight at the beginning.) There’s still hope.

I don't think the police have given. Its in the hands of the coroner who is the only official that can direct proceedings at this stage.

 

[Underarrest_]

I don't think the police have given. It’s in the hands of the coroner who is the only official that can direct proceedings at this stage.

A coronial inquest was held between October 2010 and April 2011 for Daniel. In August 2011 Cowan was charged after an 8 year investigation and four month sting by police.

 

[Leon Higgins]

A coronial inquest was held between October 2010 and April 2011 for Daniel. In August 2011 Cowan was charged after an 8 year investigation and four month sting by police.

I am talking about this case. Brett Cowan was obviously the perp from very early on. He looked like the identikit, his father in law ran the institution across the road from the bus stop. He had a track record of abuse and violence towards childrenn. The fact it took 8 years was a travesty. He had 8 years more freedom than he deserved. The people suspected as in this case are way cleverer than Brett Cowan. The police stated in July this year again that they have found their suspect, they are not looking for anyone else.

 

[Underarrest_]

I am talking about this case. Brett Cowan was obviously the perp from very early on. He looked like the identikit, his father in law ran the institution across the road from the bus stop. He had a track record of abuse and violence towards childrenn. The fact it took 8 years was a travesty. He had 8 years more freedom than he deserved. The people suspected as in this case are way cleverer than Brett Cowan. The police stated in July this year again that they have found their suspect, they are not looking for anyone else.

Yes, Cowan was not investigated properly at the beginning in the Daniel case. I’m just saying there is hope in this case.

 

[Leon Higgins]

Critical thinking.

I think lack of critical thinking lead to the Batar creek Road excavation.

The police had information that the FM had driven down Batar creek road.

Where did that information come from. The FM

Possibility (1) is the FM is not guilty of the disappearance, the logical conclusion being he is not there.

Possibility (2) is the FM is responsible for the disappearance. The logical conclusion being he is not there. Why would she tell them where he is?

I see this lack of critical thinking all the way through this case. If the information came from someone else not connected then it was reasonable to dig. Peter the truck driver did not see her.

Why did the FM say. 'They are not going to find him there' or words to that effect. How did she know that.

I see the Batar creek drive as an insurance policy meant to deceive and send the investigators on a wild goose chase. Don't look here, look over there. If the police were a bit smarter, they would not of taken the bait.

You could of easily predicted that WT was not there even before they spent taxpayers digging out a wet hole.

 

[Jim Cricket]

Critical thinking.

I think lack of critical thinking lead to the Batar creek Road excavation.

The police had information that the FM had driven down Batar creek road.

Where did that information come from. The FM

Possibility (1) is the FM is not guilty of the disappearance, the logical conclusion being he is not there.

Possibility (2) is the FM is responsible for the disappearance. The logical conclusion being he is not there. Why would she tell them where he is?

I see this lack of critical thinking all the way through this case. If the information came from someone else not connected then it was reasonable to dig. Peter the truck driver did not see her.

Why did the FM say. 'They are not going to find him there' or words to that effect. How did she know that.

I see the Batar creek drive as an insurance policy meant to deceive and send the investigators on a wild goose chase. Don't look here, look over there. If the police were a bit smarter, they would not of taken the bait.

You could of easily predicted that WT was not there even before they spent taxpayers digging out a wet hole.

Critical thinking would say that possibility (1) If the FM is not guilty he could be there or anywhere else and possibility (2) if she did it the logical conclusion is to search in places where she might have driven to in the time she had. If it was me I'd drive much further away and bury the body deep and only then alert the cops, If she's the evil genius some people think she must be she wouldn't leave his body just around the corner and above the ground to be easily found with injuries that would show he fell from a height, which is all she had time to do. The search may or may not have included that area early on but she wouldn't know that. In fact she'd have to expect they'd look everywhere within hundreds of metres of the home in the early stages, especially bushy and scrubby areas. All critical and logical thinking.

 

[Leon Higgins]

Critical thinking would say that possibility (1) If the FM is not guilty he could be there or anywhere else and possibility (2) if she did it the logical conclusion is to search in places where she might have driven to in the time she had. If it was me I'd drive much further away and bury the body deep and only then alert the cops, If she's the evil genius some people think she must be she wouldn't leave his body just around the corner and above the ground to be easily found with injuries that would show he fell from a height, which is all she had time to do. The search may or may not have included that area early on but she wouldn't know that. In fact she'd have to expect they'd look everywhere within hundreds of metres of the home in the early stages, especially bushy and scrubby areas. All critical and logical thinking.

Jim if she is guilty she isn't going to tell them where she went to hide the body.. She is the only witness to the drive.

 

[passball]

Wasn't there a phone call made or received while he was actually in the pharmacy? It takes more than a few minutes to leave a script, have it filled, and pay for it. And his phone would have been pinging between Lakewood and Kendall. I think, plenty of evidence available as to his location between 10am and 10.30am.

What do you think he could have possibly done between 9.56 and 10.16 which is relevant to William's disappearance?

I thought FF also told the person he was on the phone to when he was in the chemist that he had to hurry up and get home. Why?
Was he on a schedule to be home at 10.30am? What was the rush?

Does that time between 9.56-10.16am match up with the blonde haired lady seen in the black car, truckie Peter's evidence?

 

[passball]

Jim if she is guilty she isn't going to tell them where she went to hide the body.. She is the only witness to the drive.

Was the drive after the 000 call?
I dont think she would of had time in her narrative to hide William's body, she would have time to hide evidence.
How long did it take for police to get there after the call? Don't think it was long

 

[Leon Higgins]

Was the drive after the 000 call?
I dont think she would of had time in her narrative to hide William's body, she would have time to hide evidence.
How long did it take for police to get there after the call? Don't think it was long

IMHO it probably never happened at all. The FM makes the unverified claim. Unless there is some corroborating evidence by someone independent such as Peter the truckie or a neighbour that is truly independent, one needs to treat anything that is said with a grain of salt in this case.

 

[31550]

IMHO it probably never happened at all. The FM makes the unverified claim. Unless there is some corroborating evidence by someone independent such as Peter the truckie or a neighbour that is truly independent, one needs to treat anything that is said with a grain of salt in this case.

Maybe the drive never happened. Or never happened the way FM said it happened. But then, why say it happened? Deception?

There has to be a reason for the drive being in the FM narrative. She wants us to believe it happened as she says it happened. Why?

 

[Leon Higgins]

Maybe the drive never happened. Or never happened the way FM said it happened. But then, why say it happened? Deception?

There has to be a reason for the drive being in the FM narrative. She wants us to believe it happened as she says it happened. Why?

I think it’s about creating a red herring in case the police did not accept their story. Send them on a wild goose chase. Remember the bit about hearing a child cry or scream. Pure Theatre.

It worked. They swallowed the bait and still didn’t realise right up to the inquest.

I actually think she is extremely clever. Way too clever for these plods. That’s what the post I wrote about critical thinking is trying to show. Either she is innocent, then why would WT be there or if she is guilty and then why would she lead them there.

Thinking clearly means you would never have excavated that creek bed. No logical reason why he would be there.

 

[Leon Higgins]

I thought FF also told the person he was on the phone to when he was in the chemist that he had to hurry up and get home. Why?
Was he on a schedule to be home at 10.30am? What was the rush?

Does that time between 9.56-10.16am match up with the blonde haired lady seen in the black car, truckie Peter's evidence?

This is the first time I had heard this. Possibilities.

1) He told a white lie to get off the phone.

2) He was supposed to be home by 10.30 for nefarious reasons.

3) He had a planned non nefarious reason to be back by 10.30. If so what exactly. Was it the trip to the cemetery?

 

[passball]

Was the drive after FM spoke to AMS?
If it was before then why the need to walk to the bus stop?
She would have seen William on her drive so why the walk?
Wouldn't the neighbours have seen FM take the car if they were out looking for William?
The whole 'went for a drive' was very theatrical.
Truck driver looked at her, green car driver looked at her. She thinks people are looking at her but when the police look at her it's a different story. Now it's dont look at me.
If it wasn't for those photos.
And that sunrise photo is weird.
Was it all premeditated?

 

[LRitz]

I thought FF also told the person he was on the phone to when he was in the chemist that he had to hurry up and get home. Why?
Was he on a schedule to be home at 10.30am? What was the rush?

Does that time between 9.56-10.16am match up with the blonde haired lady seen in the black car, truckie Peter's evidence?

As I understand it, he finished the work presentation and had received at least one missed call. Difficult to interpret, but it could have been (IMO) two missed calls. There is no indication who the other missed call was from. He alleges that he called back the recruiter missed call while actually in the chemist. But we don't know if anyone saw him in the chemist on the phone or how long he was in the chemist. He may not have been in the chemist.
I think the story that he was in a hurry was to the recruiter to end the phone call. Not that he was actually in a hurry.
My question was there another missed call (other than the recruiter)? If so , who was this from? And if he rang back the recruiter, who he didn't want to speak with, why not also ring back the other call. After all there was 20 minute to wait for the script.

 

[LRitz]

Was the drive after FM spoke to AMS?
If it was before then why the need to walk to the bus stop?
She would have seen William on her drive so why the walk?
Wouldn't the neighbours have seen FM take the car if they were out looking for William?
The whole 'went for a drive' was very theatrical.
Truck driver looked at her, green car driver looked at her. She thinks people are looking at her but when the police look at her it's a different story. Now it's dont look at me.
If it wasn't for those photos.
And that sunrise photo is weird.
Was it all premeditated?

FM alleges she drove the car, but AFAIK there is no evidence of a drive. But on the other hand, it is hard to have evidence that it did not happen at all that morning.
Interesting in Erin Patterson trial the jurors were told not to reason that she is guilty just because they think she has lied.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

They can't maintain the secret forever:
IMO
1.FM took that drive to dump the shoes (collected in the days following- most likely under the cover of darkness and moved). Why did it take her 4 days to reveal the drive to the cops if she genuinely was taking it to look for him?
2. FM deliberately avoided answering the shoe question on 000 call - yet would vigorously imply in years following he was wearing shoes. You can't go from the deck to the car in the space of 20 mins, putting shoes on in between. He was just a little innocent kid.
3. The last person to see William alive was MFC, when William was in the front seat of the car (FGM - initially avoided telling investigators about being shown the new car) This was just after 8am - no shoes on. The deception occurred on the deck at 7:37am-7:39am. Australians have been lied to since September 12th 2014.
4. William was never at the breakfast table - confirmed by the unbelievable slip of the tongue by the FGM - 3 of us...4 of us
5. The Spiderman outfit was deliberately worn that morning.... to tell a story, a narrative. His sister all rugged up, kept warm. All the PR has centered around a boy in Spiderman suit. Only purchased months earlier in Bali. Just imagine if he was dressed in plain clothes that morning, like his sister, it becomes a harder sell doesn't it.
6. Go back to September 1st 2014 and you will truly join the dots....

All my opinion, based on years of research. I'm ready for the dominoes to fall in 2026!

"Tell a lie ONCE and all your truths become questionable"

 

[passball]

FM alleges she drove the car, but AFAIK there is no evidence of a drive. But on the other hand, it is hard to have evidence that it did not happen at all that morning.
Interesting in Erin Patterson trial the jurors were told not to reason that she is guilty just because they think she has lied.

I don't believe anything the FPs have said. They cry but I feel from the FM it's an act. The FF seems like he has genuine sadness but l still think he knows something, the truth.

I was going to ask about the photos but at this stage I'm thinking maybe they don't matter. Maybe William was handed over either LOCALLY or further.

11 years later, William would probably have just finished his first year of High School, year 7.
If he is still alive, is he enrolled in any LOCAL schools under a different name. Who didn’t have a 3 year old in 2014 until they did?
Just something I have been thinking about for a bit

 

[31550]

As I understand it, he finished the work presentation and had received at least one missed call. Difficult to interpret, but it could have been (IMO) two missed calls. There is no indication who the other missed call was from. He alleges that he called back the recruiter missed call while actually in the chemist. But we don't know if anyone saw him in the chemist on the phone or how long he was in the chemist. He may not have been in the chemist.
I think the story that he was in a hurry was to the recruiter to end the phone call. Not that he was actually in a hurry.
My question was there another missed call (other than the recruiter)? If so , who was this from? And if he rang back the recruiter, who he didn't want to speak with, why not also ring back the other call. After all there was 20 minute to wait for the script.

The FF narrative and timeline is detailed, and has a number of easily verifiable (or refutable) data points:
The phone calls, meeting, chemist receipt, picking up newspapers, ALL involved third-party witnesses who could be identified, and tracked down and interviewed by SFR. IF any part of his story was invented, the FF would have been taking a HUGE risk by including these in his narrative. He gave the names of the people he spoke to - what if those people denied speaking to him, or had an alternative narrative? What if the shopkeeper said they had to close that morning, or ran out of newspapers? What if there was no recruiter, or 'Joy Chesterfield' etc. etc. One would ASSUME that SFR checked out these aspects of FF alibi, if not initially, then at least at some point in the last 11 years. And if they didn't, wouldn't the coroner also question these things as the photos were questioned? If there were two missed calls, or three, or none, then SFR should have been able to identify where they came from and interview the other parties. FF was forthcoming with this information - referred to his phone during his interview - surely they bothered to verify what he was telling them at the time? He would need to be a very skilled and confident actor to make all this stuff up and think he could get away with it. Doesn't seem to be his jam IMO.

On the other hand, the FM narrative is vague, inconsistent, incomplete, and NONE of it can be verified by any independent witness. There were no phone calls. No interaction with third parties, except for AMS, who places her interaction about 30 minutes LATER than when the FM says it was. There is no witness to the drive, despite the fact that the whole street should have been out looking for William, (including AMS and FGM). Never mind Peter the truckie, FGM never mentions FM borrowing her car and driving it!