Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[bourbons]

You're right, it's a real pity Labor completely destroyed immigration laws in this country.

My guy good
Your guy bad

Rinse and repeat

 

[ElectricG]

There's a marked difference between giving blood and turning your lights off, ElectricG.

Have you done it before? It’s quick and fairly painless. You just “pop in” on your way to somewhere and it’s done. It’s like running a very short errand.

 

[Gethelred]

Have you done it before? It’s quick and fairly painless. You just “pop in” on your way to somewhere and it’s done. It’s like running a very short errand.

I did it as a method to try and break a lifelong fear of needles. You're speaking to the wrong person here.

 

[Crow54]

Have you done it before? It’s quick and fairly painless. You just “pop in” on your way to somewhere and it’s done. It’s like running a very short errand.

Not when you have a needle phobia, and suffer from Vasovagal Syncope.

 

[ElectricG]

Not when you have a needle phobia, and suffer from Vasovagal Syncope.

Well the process is quick, but sure, for some people it would include multiple days of working up the courage to do it.

Not really my point but anyway.

 

[Chief]

The envoy was a political manoeuvre. Almost every single recommendation was not put in place.

THe whole thing about shutting down unis if they don't praise Israel? Those recommendations?

 

[ferball]

But haven't we kind of lived it, EG?

People lining up in the streets to give blood. Muslims and Jews coming together to condemn the attack, with Sydney muslims refusing them religious funeral rights.

Isn't what we - us, the community rather than us the government - have done, the way we have responded, shown that we are unified on this, that our multiculturalism is stronger than this? That the ties that bind us are stronger than the pulls that seek to divide?

Exactly this.

 

[ferball]

Albo hasn’t provided access to federal agencies officially as yet from my reading.

My understanding is that he said he would when asked. I could be wrong about that but it certainly seemed that way.

I get the barriers with RC. However I also do not feel overly confident that we there will be enough analysis into the federal governments actions leading up to this regarding anti semetic threat.

Seriously? There is already a stupid amount. And most of it is at odds with on the record government action.

 

[ferball]

People doing those things are good and well intentioned, but ultimately I think it’s the wrong response.

WTF?

Why?

 

[ferball]

Many American active shooters have been radicalized. Just not in the way we saw at Bondi. The same could not happen here. Handguns in the hands of gang members are responsible for the highest proportion of gun deaths in USA. Its not easy to get a Handgun legally in Australia.

Its actually suicide which is responsible for over 60% of gun deaths.

Instead of blanket bans that disproportionately affect the vast majority of responsible firearm owners, I would think a more sensible way forward would be to create further firearms license categories and further scrutiny on individuals seeking those categories representing risky firearm types. The goal would be that it would be more difficult to attain straight pull rifle types, push button shotguns etc. and that review and monitoring would be ongoing and heavily scrutinized.

Most people would not need those categories, unless a specific need could be demonstrated for each type.

An Example

Cat A - Rimfire/Air rifle/slug gun
Cat B - Longarm centrefire (Single shot or Traditional bolt action)
Cat C - Shotgun (Single or Double)
Cat D - Fast action (Straight pull, button push or otherwise modified)
Cat E - Sporting shooter (Skeet/Trap/Pistol)
Cat F - Semi auto (For prescribed contractors)

Etc

This does make sense.

 

[1990crow]

THe whole thing about shutting down unis if they don't praise Israel? Those recommendations?

Funny how the Jewish recommendations must be implemented, but the indigenous people recommendations such as the voice simply can't be.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

WTF?

Why?

They want Muslins harassed/deported.

 

[ferball]

They want Muslins harassed/deported.

It seems that way.

 

[ElectricG]

WTF?

Why?

Goes to a discussion I was having with Gethelred about gestures of unity vs. effective action. We’re getting the wrong headlines post this massacre. We should be reading about how many extremists have been arrested/deported/imprisoned as part of the government’s urgent crackdown. But instead it’s just stuff that makes us feel good but won’t help us.

Granted we COULD do both. But we won’t.

 

[ferball]

Goes to a discussion I was having with Gethelred about gestures of unity vs. effective action. We’re getting the wrong headlines post this massacre. We should be reading about how many extremists have been arrested/deported/imprisoned as part of the government’s urgent crackdown. But instead it’s just stuff that makes us feel good but won’t help us.

Granted we COULD do both. But we won’t.

Its not a gesture for the people that did it. Its them living their lives in a way they see fit.

Carloads of people were arrested in the immediate aftermath. They were released without charge. I really doubt that would have happened if there was any chance they were a threat to the community.

One of the reasons this attack was so shocking was because this stuff doesn't happen very often. Maybe Islamic extremism isn't the huge threat we think it is. In the last 11 years there have been two "Islamic" extremist attacks (one by a new age healer, ie not a real Muslim, who was facing prison for sexual abusing his customers and being an accessory to murdering his ex,) and a few stabbings by ****ed up kids.

That attack was terrible and incredibly sad for the families and loved ones of the victims but how many people have died on the roads since? (Last year 50 people died every fortnight on our roads.)

Maybe there's just no-one to crack down on.

 

[ferball]

Also ElectricG the stuff Gethelred posted was effective action. It increased vital medical supplies at Christmas when more people are on the roads and built stronger bonds between ordinary people in their communities.

And finally the Muslim community, which people are always criticising off the back of nothing really, refused them funeral rights. I dunno enough about Islam to say one way or the other how that would make other Muslims feel but it must have some deterrent on ordinary Muslims committing mass murder and it sends a clear message to the people who would commit these acts (and to the rest of the country) that ordinary Muslims don't tolerate that sort of murderous, shithouse behaviour

 

[1990crow]

Its not a gesture for the people that did it. Its them living their lives in a way they see fit.

Carloads of people were arrested in the immediate aftermath. They were released without charge. I really doubt that would have happened if there was any chance they were a threat to the community.

One of the reasons this attack was so shocking was because this stuff doesn't happen very often. Maybe Islamic extremism isn't the huge threat we think it is. In the last 11 years there have been two "Islamic" extremist attacks (one by a new age healer, ie not a real Muslim, who was facing prison for sexual abusing his customers and being an accessory to murdering his ex,) and a few stabbings by ****ed up kids.

That attack was terrible and incredibly sad for the families and loved ones of the victims but how many people have died on the roads since? (Last year 50 people died every fortnight on our roads.)

Maybe there's just no-one to crack down on.

It's a good point. It does seem like the reality is the right wing want to use this incident to deport immigrants, gain political points against the left, paint the nation's economic problems with immigrants, and divide us.

All so oil and gas companies can continue to escape real consequences for the damage they are causing to the wealth distribution.

 

[ElectricG]

One of the reasons this attack was so shocking was because this stuff doesn't happen very often. Maybe Islamic extremism isn't the huge threat we think it is. In the last 11 years there have been two "Islamic" extremist attacks (one by a new age healer, ie not a real Muslim, who was facing prison for sexual abusing his customers and being an accessory to murdering his ex,) and a few stabbings by ****ed up kids.

There have been more. Look it up. Sydney siege was Islamic terrorism no matter how much you apply a “no true Scotsman” revisionist retelling of it.

That attack was terrible and incredibly sad for the families and loved ones of the victims but how many people have died on the roads since? (Last year 50 people died every fortnight on our roads.)

A road fatality can’t be compared to a road fatality. The societal impact, the fear it instills in us, the change in culture. One thing I’ve tried to argue a few times in this thread is that if you wouldn’t try an argument on with the Christchurch massacre, you shouldn’t be doing it here. “Honestly they need to chill out, they’re more likely to die of falls from chairs and heart disease.” <- something no sane person would say.

Maybe there's just no-one to crack down on.

Well they could have cracked down on these two gunmen, but didn’t. They knew about the pledging of allegiance ISIS. They would have the identity of all of those who whooped and cheered when Israelis were slaughtered in their homes, the hundreds of “Aussies” who ran off to join ISIS and have now returned. Exactly how many of these “known to police” types are there? Crack down on them. They have only just now come to the amazing realisation that if they banned nazi flags, they should ban ISIS flags. They have absolutely been getting preferential treatment.

'Time to go home': Visa of man who attended Neo-Nazi protest revoked

The federal government has revoked the visa of a man who attended the far-right National Socialist Network protest at NSW's parliament house.

www.abc.net.au

Have they been as severe with Islamic extremists as they (rightly) were with this piece of human garbage? Attended a rally and boom, see ya later. Meanwhile these two shooters had pledged allegiance to ISIS and were apparently just on some sort’ve watch and wait list.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

We're about to a see an all guns blazing attack on multiculturalism.

So we must defend our community and our common humanity. And if those against wish to escalate...

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

if i was in gov't, I'd probably argue that anyone posting regularly in a forum thread like this, should be categorised as "radicalised"

You know, at certain venues people PAY to get fisted? Not for us SRPers. A spot on 'the list' and free cavity searches at all border control points from now on.

Woo-hoo!!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Maybe Islamic extremism isn't the huge threat we think it is.

Mike Burgess would differ.

 

[Markfs]

Mike Burgess would differ.

is that the mossad guy?

 

[ferball]

There have been more. Look it up. Sydney siege was Islamic terrorism no matter how much you apply a “no true Scotsman” revisionist retelling of it.

You mean the guy who was so committed to ISIS he asked the cops to bring him an ISIS flag.

Other than demanding a debate with the Prime Minister on radio and have the Islamic State flag delivered to the café, Monis made no specific terrorist demands. At the time of the siege, Monis was also on bail, charged with multiple sex offences against women, alleged to have been committed whilst he held himself out as a ‘spiritual healer’. Monis was also charged with being an accessory to the murder of his former partner and had recently failed to obtain custody of his two Australian born children. His professed status as a Shi’a Muslim cleric was fraudulent, and forensic examination of his use of the Internet and social media found no evidence that Monis ever had any contact with Islamic State or any other terrorist organisation and that on the day before the siege, he had only 12 followers on Twitter. The evidence does not support the conclusion that Monis suddenly ‘radicalised’ and committed an act of terrorism. Instead, the evidence shows that Monis was a malignant narcissist whose behaviour can better be formulated as lone-actor grievance-fuelled violence.

You might religiously insist it was "Islamic Terror" but obviously that is debatable.

A road fatality can’t be compared to a road fatality. The societal impact, the fear it instills in us, the change in culture. One thing I’ve tried to argue a few times in this thread is that if you wouldn’t try an argument on with the Christchurch massacre, you shouldn’t be doing it here. “Honestly they need to chill out, they’re more likely to die of falls from chairs and heart disease.” <- something no sane person would say.

Monis didn't travel around the world radicalising the way Tarrant and the Akrams did. He didn't write a manifesto explaining his worldview and justifying his actions either. I don't think you can compare what he did to what happened at Bondi or Christchurch.

As far as this incident goes I'm no more scared than I ever was, others might be, especially Jewish people, fair enough. Our culture hasn't changed either. The response of ordinary Australians is the same as its ever been in any shit situation. Most did what they could to help out and support each other (see what Gethelred posted as an example,) and one particular side of politics played it for everything they could like the grubs they are. Neither of those things are new or different as a result of the attack.

Well they could have cracked down on these two gunmen, but didn’t. They knew about the pledging of allegiance ISIS.

The federal government announced an inquiry into the failures that led to that and the NSW government has said it will hold a RC.

They would have the identity of all of those who whooped and cheered when Israelis were slaughtered in their homes,

How?

the hundreds of “Aussies” who ran off to join ISIS and have now returned. Exactly how many of these “known to police” types are there?

Most of whom are dead or in pretty ****ed up detention camps in Syria. Of the the few who returned, most ended up on terror charges.

Crack down on them. They have only just now come to the amazing realisation that if they banned nazi flags, they should ban ISIS flags. They have absolutely been getting preferential treatment.

They only just banned Nazi flags recently. Honestly, I doubt they thought ISIS was an issue. Its pretty much a broken shell of what it was a decade ago. And now they are planning to ban ISIS flags in NSW, just like you want them to.

'Time to go home': Visa of man who attended Neo-Nazi protest revoked

The federal government has revoked the visa of a man who attended the far-right National Socialist Network protest at NSW's parliament house.

www.abc.net.au

Have they been as severe with Islamic extremists as they (rightly) were with this piece of human garbage? Attended a rally and boom, see ya later. Meanwhile these two shooters had pledged allegiance to ISIS and were apparently just on some sort’ve watch and wait list.

Dual nationals who fought for ISIS were stripped of their citizenship and either deported or not let back into the country.

As far as the other two go, well there's multiple inquiries/RCs into why that situation happened but even with all that the son is an Australian. He was born here like I was. You can't just lock him up for associating with an extreme ideology any more than you can lock up Blair Cottrell or any other number of Nazis for the same thing.

Unless they break the law.

 

[ferball]

So we must defend our community and our common humanity. And if those against wish to escalate...

So no changes to the gun laws till we see off this attack?

 

[Markfs]

You know, at certain venues people PAY to get fisted? Not for us SRPers. A spot on 'the list' and free cavity searches at all border control points from now on.

Woo-hoo!!

sounds like a border controlled by the IDF