List Mgmt. Nick Austin - Head Of List Management

[Stamos]

Got the first two (Wright and Davies), Agresta went, who replaced him? I didn't think we did,

Hasn’t been replaced yet, we’re “restructuring the department”.

But it’s still a change.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Hasn’t been replaced yet, we’re “restructuring the department”.

But it’s still a change.

it made little sense to me, lets assume they moved Agresta on, he reported to Austin I assume? Austin therefore oversaw his workings and vetted anything he did? How is Austin still there?

 

[RAPPA]

for those at the club with the deplorable skills, I wonder what efforts the individuals have taken to improve those skills. What are the Ollie Hollands and the Campo twins for example doing of their own initiative to improve their kicking? There are absolutely a lot more players to put into that category, but with the opportunities these players have, surely they take some pride in putting in the extra effort for some professional development. It’s staggering to see players that spend years in the system and their kicking doesn’t improve or even regresses

 

[Gointocarlton]

for those at the club with the deplorable skills, I wonder what efforts the individuals have taken to improve those skills. What are the Ollie Hollands and the Campo twins for example doing of their own initiative to improve their kicking? There are absolutely a lot more players to put into that category, but with the opportunities these players have, surely they take some pride in putting in the extra effort for some professional development. It’s staggering to see players that spend years in the system and their kicking doesn’t improve or even regresses

Petracca hired a kicking coach over the summer. Crippa and Harry have worked with running coaches over the summer for years. Youre spot on, I wonder how many of the other take the initiative and work with some independent of the club to better their game.

 

[Stamos]

Petracca hired a kicking coach over the summer. Crippa and Harry have worked with running coaches over the summer for years. Youre spot on, I wonder how many of the other take the initiative and work with some independent of the club to better their game.

While it would be ideal, maybe they don’t even know?
If they’re not getting that feedback at the club, maybe they don’t think it’s the top priority for improvement?

 

[bigblueboy]

for those at the club with the deplorable skills, I wonder what efforts the individuals have taken to improve those skills. What are the Ollie Hollands and the Campo twins for example doing of their own initiative to improve their kicking? There are absolutely a lot more players to put into that category, but with the opportunities these players have, surely they take some pride in putting in the extra effort for some professional development. It’s staggering to see players that spend years in the system and their kicking doesn’t improve or even regresses

There’s two reasons players do not kick well - 1. Poor decision-making and 2. Poor technique under pressure.

Both are very hard to improve because it’s only during a game when they are exposed.

I’m of the view that once you get to age 18 you are either a good kick or you are not. Campo brothers shouldn’t have been drafted on this basis alone.

 

[Gointocarlton]

While it would be ideal, maybe they don’t even know?
If they’re not getting that feedback at the club, maybe they don’t think it’s the top priority for improvement?

If you know, you know.

 

[No1Suspect]

Was it? Weren't we offered two 'highish' first rounders for pick 1? He's not even the best player from that year let alone worth 2.

Dont recall, but it would want to be 2 top 10s with one being at least no4

 

[TENACIOUS]

IMO…

I’d rate Austin and his team average compared to the bottom 12 teams…

Draft - Good
Brought in (Potential A-Grade) talent HOF, Dean, Jagga, Carroll & Byrne.
As well as some promising choices Lord, Cowan, Ison, F.Young & Moir.

Trade - Poor
Yet to bring in any elite talent. Last elite player we traded in was Judd.

Paid big $$$ / draft picks / contracts for B- Graders Williams, Saad, Cerra, Florent & Haywood.

Contracts - Poor
Some of the contracts given $$$ / Length are bewildering Harry, Pittonet, Walsh, Cerra, Weitering & Williams.

Wright and Davies are experienced in this area, so hopefully they can get the best people in, the right areas.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

I hope GW asks the question about Mark McKenzie to replace Austin.

 

[blues4flag]

There’s two reasons players do not kick well - 1. Poor decision-making and 2. Poor technique under pressure.

Both are very hard to improve because it’s only during a game when they are exposed.

I’m of the view that once you get to age 18 you are either a good kick or you are not. Campo brothers shouldn’t have been drafted on this basis alone.

There's a 3rd - predictability. The best teams know where their outlet kicks are and just have to execute to a player in space.

We look like we're making it up on the go, every time.

 

[Michael Jezz]

It’s not necessarily the drafting that has killed us. Drafts can be crap shoots. Almost every draft is littered with high picks who were bust and late picks who have turned out to be stars. What I have a big question mark over is that we always seem to miss trends in the way the game is going.

A good football department would be thinking about that when discussing game style, recruiting targets. I don’t think we’ve had that. We need to get a CEO, Football Manager, List Manager. Recruiting Manager and coach who are all aligned on the direction that we want to go in. We need to get this right before we can make progress.

Drafting is a problem & yes it is a gamble but good clubs stack the odds in their favour. The day we drafted Binns, I received a phone call from a person associated with his feeder club-Dandenong. He basically said is not coachable, can not kick just runs. Not an AFL prospect. That said to me our recruiters don't dig in to the detail

 

[IMTOPS]

It’s not necessarily the drafting that has killed us. Drafts can be crap shoots. Almost every draft is littered with high picks who were bust and late picks who have turned out to be stars. What I have a big question mark over is that we always seem to miss trends in the way the game is going.

A good football department would be thinking about that when discussing game style, recruiting targets. I don’t think we’ve had that. We need to get a CEO, Football Manager, List Manager. Recruiting Manager and coach who are all aligned on the direction that we want to go in. We need to get this right before we can make progress.

This is spot on. Carlton follows trends and is incapable of being the trendsetters.

By playing catch up, we will constantly be copying other models, and before you know it the game has evolved once again.

Shuffling deck chairs on the titanic is never the answer.

The Zac Williams contract is the perfect illustration of the downfall. Foolishly selected to be a mid without the tank to play that role and overlooking injury history with a 6 year deal on outrageous money.

Draft picks will always be a lottery, but when you’re committing trade fails like this, it’s the end of the road.

And a rant, who thought Campbell Chesser was a good idea? Can’t kick and that famed running ability it not evidenced. There is a significant pile up of list cloggers - a 3 year reset is required - I don’t think a hawthorn style rebound is going to happen unfortunately.

 

[Soapy V]

This is spot on. Carlton follows trends and is incapable of being the trendsetters.

By playing catch up, we will constantly be copying other models, and before you know it the game has evolved once again.

Shuffling deck chairs on the titanic is never the answer.

The Zac Williams contract is the perfect illustration of the downfall. Foolishly selected to be a mid without the tank to play that role and overlooking injury history with a 6 year deal on outrageous money.

Draft picks will always be a lottery, but when you’re committing trade fails like this, it’s the end of the road.

And a rant, who thought Campbell Chesser was a good idea? Can’t kick and that famed running ability it not evidenced. There is a significant pile up of list cloggers - a 3 year reset is required - I don’t think a hawthorn style rebound is going to happen unfortunately.

Good post.

the last but I disagree with. Go look at Chesser and his games last year. Ball use and game play was miles better. Why is he all of a sudden not running? Another player that comes to Carlton and seems to go backwards

The issue is now we are so reactive and negative as a football side no one is doing well and as such until we change the direction we just can’t properly judge any players let alone our list

 

[JaggasMoves]

This is spot on. Carlton follows trends and is incapable of being the trendsetters.

By playing catch up, we will constantly be copying other models, and before you know it the game has evolved once again.

Shuffling deck chairs on the titanic is never the answer.

The Zac Williams contract is the perfect illustration of the downfall. Foolishly selected to be a mid without the tank to play that role and overlooking injury history with a 6 year deal on outrageous money.

Draft picks will always be a lottery, but when you’re committing trade fails like this, it’s the end of the road.

And a rant, who thought Campbell Chesser was a good idea? Can’t kick and that famed running ability it not evidenced. There is a significant pile up of list cloggers - a 3 year reset is required - I don’t think a hawthorn style rebound is going to happen unfortunately.

The Cheeser trade was a head scratcher, despite being cheap. Never rated him, poor football smarts and footskills under pressure

We've had plenty of those type of wingmen and still do

 

[JustaBattler]

Drafting is a problem & yes it is a gamble but good clubs stack the odds in their favour. The day we drafted Binns, I received a phone call from a person associated with his feeder club-Dandenong. He basically said is not coachable, can not kick just runs. Not an AFL prospect. That said to me our recruiters don't dig in to the detail

and yet all teh 'experts' on here rated Binns as teh next Dow - not being given teh opportunities he deserved...
meanwhile anyone who ahs actually played any level of decent sport- coudl see he was never going to make it - ever..much like 4 VFL current players just will nto make it...

 

[Crippa#9]

Good post.

the last but I disagree with. Go look at Chesser and his games last year. Ball use and game play was miles better. Why is he all of a sudden not running? Another player that comes to Carlton and seems to go backwards

The issue is now we are so reactive and negative as a football side no one is doing well and as such until we change the direction we just can’t properly judge any players let alone our list

Not only our players but those who we have brought in...Hayward, Ainsworth, Chesser...they've regressed as well.

Ultimately, good coaching systems manufacture a plan to get the ball in the hands of their best players.

We don't.

How many players on our list are playing at a higher level than the year before / or what they've shown they're capable of?
Maybe Elijah? Pitto?

The regression is frightening.

A new voice & direction is overdue.

 

[Stamos]

Drafting is a problem & yes it is a gamble but good clubs stack the odds in their favour. The day we drafted Binns, I received a phone call from a person associated with his feeder club-Dandenong. He basically said is not coachable, can not kick just runs. Not an AFL prospect. That said to me our recruiters don't dig in to the detail

What's worse is we had a consultant in the room for that draft who said he should not be drafted, but was ignored.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Drafting is a problem & yes it is a gamble but good clubs stack the odds in their favour. The day we drafted Binns, I received a phone call from a person associated with his feeder club-Dandenong. He basically said is not coachable, can not kick just runs. Not an AFL prospect. That said to me our recruiters don't dig in to the detail

I strongly suspect that this is untrue. At picks around this range all players will have question marks. The decisions are made with full awareness. If Voss demanded elite runners then the decision was possibly to select him and work on the flaws...if anything I would question whether we have the right environment to support this decision, not whether they had the available information

 

[josephone]

Trade - Poor
Yet to bring in any elite talent. Last elite player we traded in was Judd.

Paid big $$$ / draft picks / contracts for B- Graders Williams, Saad, Cerra, Florent & Haywood.

I think you need to assess the Curnow trade a bit differently. He wanted out and I think the club did OK under the circumstances. Florent/Hayward have underwhelmed so far, but what else was realistically on the table?

Sure we could have kept him but could you imagine the jungle drums if we were 1-3 with a surly Charlie kicking 7 goals across four games?

Saad had an AA season and has been generally good, and for him we gave up pick 8 in the 2020 Covid draft. Looking at the players taken around pick 8, I don't think you could say we missed out on an A-grader. It was an all-time bad draft, only two AAs produced so far, and I'd say we did pretty well out of that trade.

 

[Mezzoculo]

If you know, you know.

Especially if they read bigfooty...

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think individually, most list managers have their wins and losses. Unless it's a massive blockbuster like (bringing in) a Judd, Cameron, Fevola, the individual trades won't make or break a list manager's tenure.

I think the bigger potential issues to look at are: Repeated pattern of failures and bad big picture strategies.

An example of big picture strategy and the one I believe we got wrong is the midfield mix:

There was a time when we already had Cripps, Kennedy and Walsh...and the view was to build out the depth in our midfield. We then used cap space and/or draft picks for Hewett, Cerra and even Williams was meant to go in there. Individually, these acquisitions were pretty good...but we got the big picture strategy wrong because they weren't the types of players we needed.

Had we gone to the draft, used the assets on quicker mids or even used the assets on forwards/backs instead, we'd be a very different team.

 

[Stamos]

An example of big picture strategy and the one I believe we got wrong is the midfield mix:

There was a time when we already had Cripps, Kennedy and Walsh...and the view was to build out the depth in our midfield. We then used cap space and/or draft picks for Hewett, Cerra and even Williams was meant to go in there. Individually, these acquisitions were pretty good...but we got the big picture strategy wrong because they weren't the types of players we needed.

Had we gone to the draft, used the assets on quicker mids or even used the assets on forwards/backs instead, we'd be a very different team.

I think this is very much hindsight recruiting.

Kennedy had not been reliable when we brought in Cerra and Hewett (who was cheap). He'd managed 12, 10, 7, and 13 games in his 4 years at Carlton before we brought them in.
Remember everyone screaming that Cripps needed help?

Also, while we obviously needed (and still need) pace, Saad and Williams were both quick.

Williams has ended up being a really poor recruitment, but that's due to fitness and injury, much more than talent or type, even if he was unproven as a regular mid..

 

[TENACIOUS]

I think you need to assess the Curnow trade a bit differently. He wanted out and I think the club did OK under the circumstances. Florent/Hayward have underwhelmed so far, but what else was realistically on the table?

Sure we could have kept him but could you imagine the jungle drums if we were 1-3 with a surly Charlie kicking 7 goals across four games?

Saad had an AA season and has been generally good, and for him we gave up pick 8 in the 2020 Covid draft. Looking at the players taken around pick 8, I don't think you could say we missed out on an A-grader. It was an all-time bad draft, only two AAs produced so far, and I'd say we did pretty well out of that trade.

I haven’t calculated any outs in trades as it wasn’t list team’s fault that Curnow, TDK and JSOS wanted out…

Only focused on the players we brought in (or lack of):

• Florent and Hayward have been poor
• Saad had 1 good year, other than that has been poor (in an area of need)

We haven’t traded in any elite match winners (other than through the draft) yet we’ve been happy to waste first rounders on B-Graders…

We need to get better, specially with Tassie coming in and probably a 20th team not long after.

 

[Stamos]

Saad had 1 good year, other than that has been poor (in an area of need)

How do you figure?