Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[I bleed Blue]

While I can only applaud the glass half full attitude...

That's ten midfielders, 3 tall to medium forwards and 3 tall to medium backs. Add a ruckman makes 17.

The 18th bloke is going to be a busy fella.....

Only need 4 of those midfielders to be guns. Cripps is already proven so if three others become Agrade thays enough. If the others can be solid B grade. As for backs and forwars only need a couple of guns in each group.

Fill the rest with solid citizens.

List is well on track.

 

[Doro]

Pardon the intrusion.

No doubt the Blues have got a number of talented young players. A key question will be how they manage to hold on to them. The trade wheel keeps turning round and I expect other clubs will plonk offers on the table to lure a number of Blues players away, just as SOS has done. Players like McKay, Dow and Kennedy I expect are targets.

I wonder if SOS will consider a salary dump trade on Docherty (my clear favourite Blues player), given the long battle he has to get fit again. The Doc would be on significant salary.

I note big Matty K qualifies for FA this year. I expect at least ten other Clubs (inc mine) will be interested in him. If he stays fit he will be offered significant dosh to move on.

We are just leaving a period of taking on salary dumps to hit minimum cap, so we won't have to worry about a cap squeeze for a few years yet. Doc was just named co-captain so his rehab is all we'll be concerned with. I think Kreuzer will finish a one club player, it's just the type of character he has.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think we are already aware with all of that. The clubs focus should be instead of delisting 10 players year on year is actually have a list that has trade value. So if we lose a player here and there and actually get something in return and said player sits 25th on the list in terms of importance then the club is doing their job. In the past few years the 25th player on the list we were getting donuts.

Fair points that reflect on the need for real depth beyond simple numbers on a list. Nic Newman is probably a good example of a bloke who was top 28 on our list but has an upside to be unqualified best 22. He will be missed by my mob but you cannot keep them all. Improved performance by the Blues this will year add to salary cap pressure and trade pressure on younger members of your best best 22-25.

How likely is Matty K to exercise his FA rights and will SOS make his re-signing a priority?

 

[pinot]

I think we can call these players untradeable next three years and then we will have a squeeze I think as we bring more players in during that period

Cripps
Docherty
Weitering
Curnow
Walsh
SPS
Dow
Marchbank
Fisher
McGovern
Obrien
McKay
Setterfield
Williamson
Stocker
De Koning
Kennedy

 

[I bleed Blue]

Pardon the intrusion.

No doubt the Blues have got a number of talented young players. A key question will be how they manage to hold on to them. The trade wheel keeps turning round and I expect other clubs will plonk offers on the table to lure a number of Blues players away, just as SOS has done. Players like McKay, Dow and Kennedy I expect are targets.

I wonder if SOS will consider a salary dump trade on Docherty (my clear favourite Blues player), given the long battle he has to get fit again. The Doc would be on significant salary.

I note big Matty K qualifies for FA this year. I expect at least ten other Clubs (inc mine) will be interested in him. If he stays fit he will be offered significant dosh to move on.

Doc is our captain and untouchable. Absolute carlton blood running through his viens. We will never move him on. Even if injuries cruel him.

He would never entertain the idea either.

Kruezer. If FA offers come I'm sure we would entertain the idea of letting him go if TDK is coming on as hoped.

Yes holding all our players will be the challange. But lets hope they want to stick together ala hawthorne and geelong.

If we lose a couple then so be it. SOS will ensure we are adequately compensated and we top up for needs or bring in young kids to try to ensure we dont bottom out and strive for sustained success

 

[pinot]

Fair points that reflect on the need for real depth beyond simple numbers on a list. Nic Newman is probably a good example of a bloke who was top 28 on our list but has an upside to be unqualified best 22. He will be missed by my mob but you cannot keep them all. Improved performance by the Blues this will year add to salary cap pressure and trade pressure on younger members of your best best 22-25.

How likely is Matty K to exercise his FA rights and will SOS make his re-signing a priority?

Oh look I personally dont think he will leave - he is a local boy and well embedded into Carlton from playing group to board level and coteries etc. I seriously don't think money will be an issue. If we happen to have a spike in performances then I think the chances of Matty leaving will be somewhere between nought and zero.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I can see a situation where he wouldn't want to come. But it's up to us to produce a year that helps him see it.

If we can win 7 or 8 games and be really competitive. He might think "gee they are building something special. They are going to play finals next year with or without me. I'll only help push them deeper."

Th best player in the league, Cripps, captaining him and dishing it out to him. Setterfield and Kennedy being bulls and dishing it out too.

Then having the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, LOB as support and zip.

Blind Freddy can see a midfield of Cripps, Coniglio, setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Dow, Walsh, LOB and Stocker will be an absolute force.

Then they get to kick it to the next Buddy and roughy combo - Charlie and H, oh and if they need a third target there is McGovern too.

Backline general and captain Doc back to join Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman in a backline most forward lines are going to dread.

Going to be stars across every line. God forbid if some fringe players come on.

And most importantly, the culture we are building. A group that just looks connected. You only have to see how they welcomed gibbons and cotrell that it would be a great locker room and environment to be apart of. Why would coniglio not want to be part of it.

See i look at FAs and them maybe coming to us and now say "why wouldn't they"?

I think when it comes to this time in their career, they look at the future. They look at the club as a whole. They look at the player environment. Friendships and unity within the playing and coach group. They want it to be fun. They want to see success brewing. They obviously like the money too.

Players aren't dumb. Blind freddy can see we are on the cusp of something amazing. 2019 may not be a 8 win season and i honestly don't believe it has to be. Our percetage will improve. Our gamelan will improve. We will still be united and that is what you want to see. Gone are the days of not standing by your fellow man (player/coach etc) with our club.

If coniglio is entertaining the thought of exercising his rights to become a FA and he doesnt feel the need to go back to WA, then why not us? Look at the videos of our boys excited and united. Look at the overwhelming talent we have on our list. Its not a question of "ifs", its a question of "when". And history tells us when is usually the time a lot of your playing group have 50 or so games into them. A few good leaders. A couple of game winners. And a whole team united to succeed and get the best out of each other.

Setterfield wanted in. McGovern wanted in. These are 2 players id suggest every other club would have wanted on their list.

I am one who was fine with not getting Shiel. Good playet no doubt but i wanted Walsh, wanted another top pick either in 2018 or 2019. We got that in Stocker. But we also still have a 2019 1st to play with which puts us again in a great position.

Coniglio would be crazy to not view carlton as a team that will play finals in 2020 and the sky is the limit.

 

[THE_GUN]

Brandon Ellis for his running power and delivery is probably the only one I would be half interested in.

He could be a good get for Carlton with his running and experience, Has just fallen back in the pecking order at richmond but unfairly imo
he was in the AA squad and finished 2nd in our BF not so long ago but has been asked to play a role that is foreign to him recently but his true position where he plays his best footy is wing between the arches.

I have been having this debate with some north flags and comparing his career stats to Polec and ellis comes out very similar but is more reliable playing 155 games in 7 years compared to polec 106 in 8 years

Ellis as a free hit would not be such a bad idea for the blues imo

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

See i look at FAs and them maybe coming to us and now say "why wouldn't they"?

I think when it comes to this time in their career, they look at the future. They look at the club as a whole. They look at the player environment. Friendships and unity within the playing and coach group. They want it to be fun. They want to see success brewing. They obviously like the money too.

Players aren't dumb. Blind freddy can see we are on the cusp of something amazing. 2019 may not be a 8 win season and i honestly don't believe it has to be. Our percetage will improve. Our gamelan will improve. We will still be united and that is what you want to see. Gone are the days of not standing by your fellow man (player/coach etc) with our club.

If coniglio is entertaining the thought of exercising his rights to become a FA and he doesnt feel the need to go back to WA, then why not us? Look at the videos of our boys excited and united. Look at the overwhelming talent we have on our list. Its not a question of "ifs", its a question of "when". And history tells us when is usually the time a lot of your playing group have 50 or so games into them. A few good leaders. A couple of game winners. And a whole team united to succeed and get the best out of each other.

Setterfield wanted in. McGovern wanted in. These are 2 players id suggest every other club would have wanted on their list.

I am one who was fine with not getting Shiel. Good playet no doubt but i wanted Walsh, wanted another top pick either in 2018 or 2019. We got that in Stocker. But we also still have a 2019 1st to play with which puts us again in a great position.

Coniglio would be crazy to not view carlton as a team that will play finals in 2020 and the sky is the limit.

FA’s will be turning 27 in their first season at a new club so they don’t have a heap of time. ATM he would look at our list and say sure they have a lot of young talent but only two (fisher and Curnow) are playing good AFL standard football. Why bet on us, a club with a terrible history in the modern game turning everything around when he could go anywhere he wants.
Of course this could all change in 8 months if we have a good season but if we struggle again like this season any FA would be mad unless it’s because of $

 

[TooBlue14]

Being as objective as I can, I think SOS has done an amazing job. Looking at 2019, there seems to be good reason to expect significant improvement. Although we’ll obviously have different views, the net gains for the list this year look impressive:

Additions who will add (most, significantly):

Walsh, Setterfield, McGovern, Gibbons, Newman, Fasolo


Expected big improvers (age, experience, fitness/body, preseason):

Kennedy, Murphy, Plowman, Dow, LOB, SPS, McKay, Weitering


Might improve:

Cunningham, Garlett, JSOS, Polson, Macreadie, TDK, Williamson, Marchbank, Fisher

Unknown quantities, might add something:

Goddard, Cotterell, Owies, Jones, Stocker

Net Losses from 2018:

Pickett, Byrne

The upside looks huge to me.

I think you can add Charlie to the big improvers list too.

 

[Pafloyul]

I think we are already aware with all of that. The clubs focus should be instead of delisting 10 players year on year is actually have a list that has trade value. So if we lose a player here and there and actually get something in return and said player sits 25th on the list in terms of importance then the club is doing their job. In the past few years the 25th player on the list we were getting donuts.

There's intent then there's reality, some players will never develop trade value no matter how much time and work is put into them. I expect the number of players delisted will slowly go down but it still hinges on whether the draftee offers more long term. I expect trade targets for other clubs are still more likely be players who many people think are in our best 22, or very close to it, at least. I think our focus will be on finding players to fill particular roles without selling the farm for them. I was looking at our last premiership side and I noticed that there were at least six players in only their first or second year at the club, that's some canny or tin-arsed recruiting, I'm not sure which.

 

[murphster]

It’s about not going full Melbourne. Talk to any of their supporters and they will tell you how important experience is

We don’t have to even look at Melbourne, the reason we are still where we are is because of the draft penalties we received but more importantly was the mass exodus of our senior players during the 2001+ period leaving us with nearly no one to lead us out of the mire and teach the young ones we brought in about footy but more importantly the strong culture of winning that we had at the CARLTON FC.

 

[thylacine60]

let's not forget why we received those draft penalties..........

 

[murphster]

I'm struggling to get my head around our list strategy following the signing of Cottrell.

Good luck to him, and I hope he becomes a regular in our starting 18 at some stage, but this year we've now recruited 3 'project players' in Cottrell, Finbar and BSOS...and you could maybe even throw in Stocker. Adding five 18 year old's in 2018/19 reinforces to me we're looking to trade rather than draft later this year.

Jimmae and Arr0w can hopefully help me out with this, but with our (Cow's) first pick this year, which is likely to be traded according to Liddle....we don't have currently another pick until round 3, maybe around 40 to 45....and potentially more 'project players' being added. How many can you have on a list?

I would have thought that with the retirement of Bugg, we would have brought another experienced state league player into the mix to fill the hole at this stage, and bringing in lower picks in this year's draft.

Any thoughts on what the strategy is at this point of time?

From what Sos said on the video re: Gibbo and Cottrell we are still going to use one more spot before the end of the SSP and he mentioned looking around the country so we still could take a more experienced player with that pick as well as keeping 1 spot for mid season draft. I’m not sure they see Cottrell as a project player in the same mould as Finbar, I think Cottrell with his great running power and thin but solid body could play sooner than we think, could use him to run off halfback or wing for NB and hope he goes well and get him into the senior side, he will have no problem running out games with his elite endurance and could use him as a defensive forward as well, has some good upside.

 

[rp84]

I think we can call these players untradeable next three years and then we will have a squeeze I think as we bring more players in during that period

Cripps
Docherty
Weitering
Curnow
Walsh
SPS
Dow
Marchbank
Fisher
McGovern
Obrien
McKay
Setterfield
Williamson
Stocker
De Koning
Kennedy

I dont think you understand what the word 'untradable' means (or implies in this setting)

 

[Thehurdle]

BSOS and Finbar don't get a look in?

Big upside, not sure in 2019 however.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We don’t have to even look at Melbourne, the reason we are still where we are is because of the draft penalties we received but more importantly was the mass exodus of our senior players during the 2001+ period leaving us with nearly no one to lead us out of the mire and teach the young ones we brought in about footy but more importantly the strong culture of winning that we had at the CARLTON FC.

Nothing to do with draft penalties and any type of exodus. SOS has put a very young and talented list together really in 4 drafts. Its all about having quality people with the balls to make a difference. The penalties have zero to do with anything

 

[HereComesJuddy]

FA’s will be turning 27 in their first season at a new club so they don’t have a heap of time. ATM he would look at our list and say sure they have a lot of young talent but only two (fisher and Curnow) are playing good AFL standard football. Why bet on us, a club with a terrible history in the modern game turning everything around when he could go anywhere he wants.
Of course this could all change in 8 months if we have a good season but if we struggle again like this season any FA would be mad unless it’s because of $

Coniglio will still be 25 come trade period this year and turns 26 in mid december. He has at least 6 years left after this year imo.

I dont believe a FA coming to a bottom 4 club with 4 or so wins is mad at all. If you base it solely on win/loss, then sure. But i really dont think we are giving people enough credit for thinking outside the box.

Imagine if we signed Gresham and Ed Langdon in this trade period. Add these 2 to:
- Cripps
- Charlie
- Fisher
- Murphy
- Dow
- Walsh
- SPS
- O'Brien
- Weitering
- McGovern
- Setterfield
- Kennedy
- Kruezer
- McKay
- Docherty
And so on.

Yes young. But our list is quality. Run extremely well now. After 2019 the flood gates will open and trust me, players will want to get to us. Coniglio wont be required to wait for us. In 2020 we will be well on our way imo

 

[pinot]

I dont think you understand what the word 'untradable' means (or implies in this setting)

Yeah whatever buddy thanks for you insightful input. Like some others in here. One liners is all your good for.

 

[Funk]

I'll say it again - the SPS side of the equation is your construction - I doubt very much that SOS has shown any tendency what so ever towards being bluffed by anyone - Marchbank wanted out of GWS - a deal was done involving Geelong's first rounder + Smedts - a huge difference between pick#6.

No need to bag Tuohy - he is one of the games best attacking rebound kicks and runners - what we desperately lack.

Agree with this once he given the ball.

Always thought he was a crappy defender and I haven’t seen anything at Cat land to change my view.

Not sad to see him go - got to give up something in every trade.

 

[Funk]

And a good kick outside 50 on goal .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Tuohy- Averaged 7 goals per season for last 5 years.

 

[Funk]

Apparently Tuohy wasn't Carlton enough to stay though. He wanted more money when all said and done. And the move was his choice. I always thought he was a handy bloke and at times very exciting but hardly a star. Which perhaps said a lot about how awful we had become. But he was also very flawed in the basics of the game and a bit of a one trick pony. I liked what he gave us in strength and run but there was a lot of mistakes to go with it.
So we did what could be done under those circumstances. I really dont think keeping Touhy at the price he wanted was the way to go with a rebuild and I doubt very much with him still here we would have achieved any more premiership points than what has eventuated.

Completely agree.

 

[Curnivore]

Completely agree.

Didn't we offer under what he is worth so SOS had trade currency? Did plenty for Carlton, wish him the best. Was Carlton enough for me.

 

[HARKER]

Players come, players go.
We can't be dirty on Tuohy for leaving, yet applauding recruits that come through our door; Marchbank, McGovern, Kennedy, Pickett, Setterfield.....etc

Don't know why we're even talking about him still. Hamill next?

 

[THE_GUN]

You cant just rebuild with 2 decent picks a year,Some time you need to sell assets to buy what you need

Problem was SoS sold too cheap in this instance but sold high with Gibbs