The war against renewable energy

[Hawk Dork]

Another example of lack of understanding, yes there were failures at the coal powered power stations. What about the renewables, how did they perform, or are you as uncomfortable as was the Minister needing to put her spin on why voters & businesses were without power.

If coal hadnt failed there wouldnt have been a blackout.
Renewables performed as would have been predicted for the weather conditions.
The solutions is storage and/or quick response gas back up

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[quotemokc]

View attachment 617551

Bit of a dictator isnt she

 

[QuietB]

We are going to have a national East West Link scandal with a new coal fired power station contract signed before the federal election - bookmark it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Coal plants failed just like in NSW

More storage is needed

Modern coal plants are needed.

 

[medusala]

Bit of a dictator isnt she

Meh, govt commision says should phase out by 2038. No coal, no nuclear and reliant on the Russians for gas. Sounds all rather sensible and likely to happen.

 

[swingdog]

97% of outages across the NEM caused by transmission, not by generation:

https://grattan.edu.au/report/keep-calm-and-carry-on/

 

[Generalissimo]

97% of outages across the NEM caused by transmission, not by generation:

https://grattan.edu.au/report/keep-calm-and-carry-on/

And the more renewable energy generation is added to the system, the less centralised it is. Thus falling power lines will tend to cause localised, rather than widespread, power outages.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Modern coal plants are needed.

Victoria had to rely on buying SA wind durring its blackouts when coal fired plants failed.
A bit more wind down Tassie way and another power cord connected to their dams and problem solved,close down the existing coal earlier

 

[Generalissimo]

Victoria had to rely on buying SA wind durring its blackouts when coal fired plants failed.
A bit more wind down Tassie way and another power cord connected to their dams and problem solved,close down the existing coal earlier

Couple of offshore wind farms in Bass Strait would be good too. It'd be nice to have something to look at when you're on the ferry.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Victoria had to rely on buying SA wind durring its blackouts when coal fired plants failed.

Actually SA started up their diesel generators and they still had blackouts.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...d-on-in-sa-to-deal-with-extreme-heat/10747886

Wholesale prices hit over $14,000 per MWh for several hours in both Victoria and SA on 24th January.

The Australian Energy Regulator reported that the closure of Hazelwood, without a replacement power station powered by brown coal, has increased wholesale electricity prices by 85 per cent. Victoria used to be a net exporter of electricity and now it's a net importer. Even before Hazelwood closed around 5,000 MW of capacity was withdrawn from the NEM, 3,500 MW of which was coal generation. So we've now got less generation capacity at a much higher price.

https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files...itoring - Hazelwood advice - March 2018_0.PDF

 

[Hawk Dork]

Actually SA started up their diesel generators and they still had blackouts.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...d-on-in-sa-to-deal-with-extreme-heat/10747886

Wholesale prices hit over $14,000 per MWh for several hours in both Victoria and SA on 24th January.

The Australian Energy Regulator reported that the closure of Hazelwood, without a replacement power station powered by brown coal, has increased wholesale electricity prices by 85 per cent. Victoria used to be a net exporter of electricity and now it's a net importer. Even before Hazelwood closed around 5,000 MW of capacity was withdrawn from the NEM, 3,500 MW of which was coal generation. So we've now got less generation capacity at a much higher price.

https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/AER electricity wholesale performance monitoring - Hazelwood advice - March 2018_0.PDF

The State Government said AEMO ordered the generators to deal with a supply shortfall in Victoria.

They were state owned too until the Libs sold them

Now the incentive is to make profit, best way to make profit is wait for desperation

 

[QuietB]

Modern coal plants are needed.

And private enterprise is lining up to build them

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Modern coal plants are needed.

Not even private industry believes that

So who is it that you think needs them?

 

[quotemokc]

I don't see why we can't just have both and let the payer decide which one they prefer to have supply them power?

 

[QuietB]

There will never be a more pro-coal government than the current government. Never.



And still no one wants to build a coal fired power station.

Might be something in that

 

[Frank Bunn]

Not even private industry believes that

So who is it that you think needs them?

Maybe the people in Victoria and SA that had blackouts.

Maybe the retail power companies that had to pass on wholesale prices of over $14,000 per MWh to the consumer.

 

[QuietB]

Maybe the people in Victoria and SA that had blackouts.

Maybe the retail power companies that had to pass on wholesale prices of over $14,000 per MWh to the consumer.

Maybe take that up with a government who cannot even agree internally on an energy policy let alone implement one.

 

[Pessimistic]

Won’t even discuss it.

Sorted has his own blackout as he’s forgotten NSW also had big problems

 

[Frank Bunn]

Maybe take that up with a government who cannot even agree internally on an energy policy let alone implement one.

It's a mess whichever way you look at it. If your state does not generate sufficient reliable power, such as Victoria now it has shut down Hazelwood without a replacement, you are at the mercy of other states for the supply and ridiculously high price of their unreliable electricity.

 

[QuietB]

It's a mess whichever way you look at it. If your state does not generate sufficient reliable power, such as Victoria now it has shut down Hazelwood without a replacement, you are at the mercy of other states for the supply and ridiculously high price of their unreliable electricity.

It was one day - it was too hot to work anyway. It was too hot to do anything

 

[Generalissimo]

It was one day - it was too hot to work anyway. It was too hot to do anything

That, and we've seen that it's the coal plants that conk out first in the heat.

 

[Frank Bunn]

That, and we've seen that it's the coal plants that conk out first in the heat.

Only when they are not maintained because subsidies for unreliable renewables has rendered them unviable.

Tell us when wholesale prices went over $14,000 per MWh before we had 'cheap renewable energy'?

 

[QuietB]

Only when they are not maintained because subsidies for unreliable renewables has rendered them unviable.

Tell us when wholesale prices went over $14,000 per MWh before we had 'cheap renewable energy'?

And the owners love it. Welcome to privatisation

 

[Pessimistic]

Only when they are not maintained because subsidies for unreliable renewables has rendered them unviable.

Tell us when wholesale prices went over $14,000 per MWh before we had 'cheap renewable energy'?

Coal never had subsidies?

Is that what all this is about? You don’t love me any more and your subsidies are going elsewhere?