Suns in the Media - Part I

[Young_Guns]

I think Touk is fairly versatile so as long as he keeps moving forward along his current trajectory he will have no issues staying best 22, even if he doesn’t become an A-grader.

He can win his own ball but he is a great tagger as well, and worst case he would make a great defensive forward.

Obviously if given the honour, he would work harder to ensure he never has to worry about that. He wouldn’t fail because of a lack of effort or complacency or desire to move forward, which is what you want to see from your leader.

 

[TheSunGod]

I disagree. Most 22 year olds sign shorter contracts because they believe they'll be worth a lot more when they hit their peak around 25-27.

You guys are underrating Touk a bit, he makes an awesome pressure forward too.

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If Touk isn’t in our best 22 in a few years’ time, I’d say we’ll have a very good team. Yeah he’s not a star, but there’s heaps worse out there. If he can keep rolling out match winning smothers and making players like Zorko his bitch, I think he deserves to stay in the side.

 

[Greendogg]

Touk is definitely best 22, he is exactly the type of glue guy you need, every great team has one, can play many roles and will do what ever is best for the team... the main thing I like is when the whips are cracking he is front and centre.. it is something that has been missing from our mob in our short history.. when the pressure is applied too little has been done by too few..
Have and said all that, he is young.. let him grow into the Captaincy over the next 2 to 5 years... Swallow is the man.. I reckon every Sun would follow him into War, no questions asked..

 

[SandyToes]

and worst case he would make a great defensive forward.

displacing who?

Sexton?
McPherson?
Martin?
Holman?
Lemmens?
Ah Chee?

And we're stuffed again if in a couple of years our midfield engine isn't running on these guys

Swallow
Brodie
Weller
Rankine
Ainsworth
Fiorini


Maybe Touk will go to the next level- we all hope he does- but IMO the guys I've listed above should be ahead of him within 2 years
So right here right now giving the Captaincy to a 22 yo who may or may not go to the next level seems ambitious in the words of Dennis Cometti

 

[gcsunsfc]

I think there's a reason Touk got 3 years and Witts and Swallow got 5- and it's not because he wouldn't have wanted it
Dave will be in our first 22 until he retires
I can think of 5 guys who can do Touk's job as well if not better within 2 years- and one of them has a Dad who posts here

Touk has limitations but at least he has shown what he can do. I'm all about potential but these young guys have got to show they can turn that into top flight AFL players.

Touk is only 1-2 years older than these guys you refer to.
It might happen but I'm not going to hold my breath

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

displacing who?

Sexton?
McPherson?
Martin?
Holman?
Lemmens?
Ah Chee?

And we're stuffed again if in a couple of years our midfield engine isn't running on these guys

Swallow
Brodie
Weller
Rankine
Ainsworth
Fiorini


Maybe Touk will go to the next level- we all hope he does- but IMO the guys I've listed above should be ahead of him within 2 years
So right here right now giving the Captaincy to a 22 yo who may or may not go to the next level seems ambitious in the words of Dennis Cometti

Touk has improved year on year and barely missed a game. I appreciate your being objective about his upside but he genuinely bleeds for this club. He deserves nothing but praise. Love the bloke to bits for how he's leading the charge.

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[kreglze]

displacing who?

Sexton?
McPherson?
Martin?
Holman?
Lemmens?
Ah Chee?

And we're stuffed again if in a couple of years our midfield engine isn't running on these guys

Swallow
Brodie
Weller
Rankine
Ainsworth
Fiorini


Maybe Touk will go to the next level- we all hope he does- but IMO the guys I've listed above should be ahead of him within 2 years
So right here right now giving the Captaincy to a 22 yo who may or may not go to the next level seems ambitious in the words of Dennis Cometti

I would say he would fit into that rotation pretty easily IMO. You honestly need 10-14 blokes who can move through the middle and Touk will be part of that group.

 

[briztoon]

displacing who?

Sexton?
McPherson?
Martin?
Holman?
Lemmens?
Ah Chee?

And we're stuffed again if in a couple of years our midfield engine isn't running on these guys

Swallow
Brodie
Weller
Rankine
Ainsworth
Fiorini


Maybe Touk will go to the next level- we all hope he does- but IMO the guys I've listed above should be ahead of him within 2 years
So right here right now giving the Captaincy to a 22 yo who may or may not go to the next level seems ambitious in the words of Dennis Cometti

No Bowes?

 

[briztoon]

Interesting discussion about your next and future captaincy.

Over on the Lions board we're all just waiting for Andrews (4th year) and J Berry (3rd year) to assume the leadership of the playing group.

 

[Jen2310]

I disagree. Most 22 year olds sign shorter contracts because they believe they'll be worth a lot more when they hit their peak around 25-27.

You guys are underrating Touk a bit, he makes an awesome pressure forward too.

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This is very true. With an example. Jordy De Goey could have gone to a few clubs for huge money at 22 last year. He chose to stay and only a 2 year contract, so when his contract expires he will be 24-25, and imagine what kind of money he will be on, given the player he is becoming. Probably a smart move.

I view, in my short term as understanding these players, Touk seems like a smart player and could be a good captain. Does seem to have leadership qualifies. But really it could be either of those three (Swallow/witts/Touk) at this point.

 

[SandyToes]

No Bowes?

Bowes Hanley Horlin-Smith Miles -all competing for that inside mid spot
If Touk was Ollie Wines or Clayton Oliver I don't think you're questioning his creds, but he hasn't shown he's anything other than a B/B+ grader-yet- and you just can't make those guys Captain of your Club no matter how much he wants it or we want to believe in their character as being more important than their ability-at 22yoa anyway
I'm glad people here think he has the ability to be much better though.He's definitely improved but I don't see him as an A grader
But then again I thought Bedwetter Scrimshaw was going to be a player so who am I to judge??!
As far as Touk's contract is concerned either he wasn't offered 5 or he didn't want 5.
Either way that's not really what you want from a potential captain

 

[Stroppy]

I would say that Touk is a quality role player.
Give him a job (tagger, midfielder, back pocket, pressure forward) and he will try to do it as well as possible.

I would also say that all good teams need role players, especially defensive role players that will sacrifice parts of their own game. So he would be a strong chance to be best 22 for a while yet.

Tbh, the better the team the more important the role players can become. Hawks and Swans are great recent examples.

 

[SandyToes]

I would say that Touk is a quality role player.
Give him a job (tagger, midfielder, back pocket, pressure forward) and he will try to do it as well as possible.

I would also say that all good teams need role players, especially defensive role players that will sacrifice parts of their own game. So he would be a strong chance to be best 22 for a while yet.

Tbh, the better the team the more important the role players can become. Hawks and Swans are great recent examples.

I agree with all that
But do you make a "role player" your captain?
I guess we'll see but I just don't want our captaincy to be a free kick for Southern media again

 

[Sunny_]

You make the best leader your Captain. Playing ability has little to do with it. I'm glad that Dew said as much in his interview, hinting that we've typically just had the best players as our Skippers in the past.

Miller oozes leadership and was Skipper during his U18 days. If the boys see it fit to have him run them out then so be it.

Geary for the Saints had a shocking year on the field last year but looks set to go round again as C. Maxwell for Pies. I'm sure there's stacks of other examples. Role players in terms of what they offer in terms of disposals but vitally important in telling us how to structure up and guide us

 

[SandyToes]

You make the best leader your Captain. Playing ability has little to do with it. I'm glad that Dew said as much in his interview, hinting that we've typically just had the best players as our Skippers in the past.

Miller oozes leadership and was Skipper during his U18 days. If the boys see it fit to have him run them out then so be it.

Geary for the Saints had a shocking year on the field last year but looks set to go round again as C. Maxwell for Pies. I'm sure there's stacks of other examples. Role players in terms of what they offer in terms of disposals but vitally important in telling us how to structure up and guide us

Well we'll agree to disagree
I think my amendment to that would be the best player with the best leadership skills
We know why Ablett May and Lynch got the gig- because of contracts and also because they were supposedly leading by example on field
I say Dave Swallow maybe Wittsy and if Touk is there in 5 years still admirably fulfilling a "role" he gets the hat for sure if Dave's knees finally give out
But you're right about Dew-he certainly is a fan of Millers by all accounts

 

[Greendogg]

You make the best leader your Captain. Playing ability has little to do with it. I'm glad that Dew said as much in his interview, hinting that we've typically just had the best players as our Skippers in the past.

Miller oozes leadership and was Skipper during his U18 days. If the boys see it fit to have him run them out then so be it.

Geary for the Saints had a shocking year on the field last year but looks set to go round again as C. Maxwell for Pies. I'm sure there's stacks of other examples. Role players in terms of what they offer in terms of disposals but vitally important in telling us how to structure up and guide us

John Worsfold was another terrific example, probably one of the best onfield leaders ever.. but in those stacked Eagles teams in the early 90's was probably not top 15 in terms of ability..

 

[SandyToes]

John Worsfold was another terrific example, probably one of the best onfield leaders ever.. but in those stacked Eagles teams in the early 90's was probably not top 15 in terms of ability..

Worsfold had superstars stacked around him and did win a club b+f at 20 I think
I just want to make it clear I love Touk and what he brings to the Club and on-field
My only caveat is his playing ability and if we can afford as a Club at this stage to carry him if he's captain for the next 10 years

 

[briztoon]

Bowes Hanley Horlin-Smith Miles -all competing for that inside mid spot
If Touk was Ollie Wines or Clayton Oliver I don't think you're questioning his creds, but he hasn't shown he's anything other than a B/B+ grader-yet- and you just can't make those guys Captain of your Club no matter how much he wants it or we want to believe in their character as being more important than their ability-at 22yoa anyway
I'm glad people here think he has the ability to be much better though.He's definitely improved but I don't see him as an A grader
But then again I thought Bedwetter Scrimshaw was going to be a player so who am I to judge??!
As far as Touk's contract is concerned either he wasn't offered 5 or he didn't want 5.
Either way that's not really what you want from a potential captain

Leaving aside the Touk Miller discussion, when you've got Swallow and Brodie at the top of the list, I figured that was your best 22 midfield rotation, and I was surprised you didn't mention Bowes in that list. Bowes for me, is the Suns version of McCluggage. Inside outside mid who is better off receiving the ball from your pure inside ball winning mid, who can be damaging by foot or hand.

Hanley's not an inside mid, not at his age and with his injury history. Much better playing off half back or wing.

 

[briztoon]

Worsfold had superstars stacked around him and did win a club b+f at 20 I think
I just want to make it clear I love Touk and what he brings to the Club and on-field
My only caveat is his playing ability and if we can afford as a Club at this stage to carry him if he's captain for the next 10 years.

But he doesn't have to be the captain for the next 10 years. He only needs to be captain until a better option presents himself. That might be Bowes or Ainsworth in a year or two if they can cement their spot in the best 22 and become consistent players.

That's no slight on Touk or his playing abilities. It's just the reality of where your club is at the moment.


Few Lions fans would debate an argument against that Zorko as being our best choice of captain going forward. Right now he's the best and only choice we have in our playing group. Neale would be an option if this wasn't his first season at the club. Everyone knows that Harris Andrews and Jarrod Berry are the next leaders of our club, but at 22 and 21 this year, it might be to early for them to assume the outright leadership of the Lions.

 

[SandyToes]

But he doesn't have to be the captain for the next 10 years. He only needs to be captain until a better option presents himself. That might be Bowes or Ainsworth in a year or two if they can cement their spot in the best 22 and become consistent players.

That's no slight on Touk or his playing abilities. It's just the reality of where your club is at the moment.


Few Lions fans would debate an argument against that Zorko as being our best choice of captain going forward. Right now he's the best and only choice we have in our playing group. Neale would be an option if this wasn't his first season at the club. Everyone knows that Harris Andrews and Jarrod Berry are the next leaders of our club, but at 22 and 21 this year, it might be to early for them to assume the outright leadership of the Lions.

Zorko's 30 years old

 

[Sun Stormer]

Well we'll agree to disagree
I think my amendment to that would be the best player with the best leadership skills
We know why Ablett May and Lynch got the gig- because of contracts and also because they were supposedly leading by example on field
I say Dave Swallow maybe Wittsy and if Touk is there in 5 years still admirably fulfilling a "role" he gets the hat for sure if Dave's knees finally give out
But you're right about Dew-he certainly is a fan of Millers by all accounts

To me Swallow is the obvious choice for captain with Miller and others riding behind him. If the plan evolves many of the players currently in the best 22 won't be there but Swallow (knees holding out) will. Another solid recruiting year for 2012, retain the key young ones and we'll be alright.

 

[Sun Stormer]

Worsfold had superstars stacked around him and did win a club b+f at 20 I think
I just want to make it clear I love Touk and what he brings to the Club and on-field
My only caveat is his playing ability and if we can afford as a Club at this stage to carry him if he's captain for the next 10 years

Totally agree - they all should be bleeding for the club. Doesn't mean you get to be captain because of it.

 

[SandyToes]

Totally agree - they all should be bleeding for the club. Doesn't mean you get to be captain because of it.

Or because you get to say it in the media every now and then

 

[briztoon]

Zorko's 30 years old

Your point?

Touk doesn’t have to be captain until retirement. He can be captain for the next two years, when a better option is ready to take over.

 

[SandyToes]

Your point?

Touk doesn’t have to be captain until retirement. He can be captain for the next two years, when a better option is ready to take over.

Is that a thing sacking your captain after 2 years ?because basically I reckon that's the last thing the Club needs and we don't need a re-run of your captain's out of contract/will he be delisted in 2 years time
There's no need because 2 guys who've signed 5 year deals are just as qualified to captain and are 26