Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[HARKER]

No guarantee Cuningham will make it but he's not bog ordinary. Bog ordinary is Graham or Temay etc.
Cuningham has highlights at VFL and AFL level, Graham's only highlight (and I don't want to sound mean) was that shepherd about 4 years ago.
Cuninghams only issue is he doesn't get it enough, if he gets it 20-25 times a game....look the **** out!!!

Graham was OK but somehow his VFL form fell apart at AFL level.....kicking, awareness, tackling....almost everything.
We've had some serious 'ordinary' players at the CFC in recent years but Graham doesn't belong in that grouping.

He probably would have made for a fair player at Hawthorn, as they seemingly make good of plenty of players selected low in the draft.

 

[Lace_Out]

The reality is Graham was a better footballer than Cuningham.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Space Cadet]

Cuners played a handful of games in a new position last year (rebounding defender/Doc replacement) before spending half the season injured. Even though he only averaged a dozen touches, I felt more comfortable with the ball in his hands than most of the team. Bit more fitness and some continuity and we have a player.

 

[passmark]

Graham was OK but somehow his VFL form fell apart at AFL level.....kicking, awareness, tackling....almost everything.
We've had some serious 'ordinary' players at the CFC in recent years but Graham doesn't belong in that grouping.

He probably would have made for a fair player at Hawthorn, as they seemingly make good of plenty of players selected low in the draft.

Yep.
Ordinary

 

[HARKER]

Imo, Cuningham is bog ordinary.
I'll see if i need to alter that throughout the season.
I doubt i will.

You may.

Never liked what we did with Cuningham early on, in that we used him as an inside mid in his first year and a bit through the NB's.
That may have been to get him closer to the ball, but all I saw, was a player losing confidence quickly.
For every burst out of stoppages you may see on the highlights reel, there were 50 "I'm not sure what's going on here'

Wing or Half Forward will have him in positions where he can use his strengths afforded by a good game-plan.

 

[Coona Blues]

You may.

Never liked what we did with Cuningham early on, in that we used him as an inside mid in his first year and a bit through the NB's.
That may have been to get him closer to the ball, but all I saw, was a player losing confidence quickly.
For every burst out of stoppages you may see on the highlights reel, there were 50 "I'm not sure what's going on here'

Wing or Half Forward will have him in positions where he can use his strengths afforded by a good game-plan.

Cuningham has always projected as an "almost" player in the roles he has been presented with since coming to the club. Taken in SOS's first
draft group, when we needed mids, but were prioritising talls. They tried to make him in to an inside midfielder, that is not his go despite having
some attributes. Need a rebounding defender, has some of the attributes, let's give it a go. Apparently was lost with some defensive structures.
More a "ball watcher", instinctive type, Cuners presents as being our most "natural" medium/small forward and will be given the opportunity, now
we have a proliferation of young genuine midfielders.

What the young man has to realise is that structure and two way running has become a part of a "small" forward's job in the modern game. If he
plays smart and hard doing the defensive requisites, his attacking flair, burst speed, anticipation and quality disposal should ensure a best 22 spot.

His career has been punctuated by injury to date, so it remains to be seen if he has the drive to fill the vacancy. If he does not, he will become a
depth option only and eventually slip out of the system. The ball is in your court "Hollywood", make the spot yours.

 

[ferrisb]

Dylan Buckley actually said a few weeks ago how big a loss Setterfield was for the Giants. Just a completely elite young talent who was dominant before doing his knee.

It feels like GWS left their delivery truck down at Princes Park and Dylan stowed away inside.

GWS drove back to Sydney and 'WHAT?!? You're on our list now?'

#SorryMEB
#StillLoveDylBucks

 

[Soapy V]

Hypothetically, what would have happened if the McGovern deal had have fell through, and we kept our draft picks and access to a State League Player, which we traded.

Of course we traded two 2nd rounders to the Swans to get a first rounder, which was part of the deal. If that deal didn't happen in order to secure McGovern, we had picks 26 and 28...which would have slid down a few rungs in the ND as clubs access academy players etc early in the draft.

We had 4 picks in the ND, so with trades etc, it ended up being:

Mitch McGovern (trade)
Will Setterfield (trade)
Nic Newman (trade)
Fas (FA)
Sam Walsh (ND)
Liam Stocker (ND)
Finbar (? - ND)
BSOS (For/Def - ND)

Without the trade, it may have looked like a bit like this:

Will Setterfield (trade)
Nic Newman (trade)
Fas (FA)
Shane McAdam (State League)
Sam Walsh (ND)
Liam Stocker (ND)
Luke Valente (mid - ND)
Bailey Williams (ruck - ND)

Just interesting to speculate how our list profile may have looked without the trade.

I think the McGovern trade was perfect for us. His combination with Charlie & McKay is exciting and balanced. He’s 23. Can go back and has unbelievable talent. Could be anything.

We can look at scenarios regarding last years draft/trade period but going into it if you had told me we would have achieved what we did I would have been very very happy.

And I still believe missing out on Shiel will prove to be a massive positive for us

 

[Soapy V]

Imo, Cuningham is bog ordinary.

I'll see if i need to alter that throughout the season.

I doubt i will.

Has to disagree on this TW. Has some real skills and talent. IMO it’s more fitness and belief that he needs. Get that and we will have a good player

 

[Soapy V]

Nobody enjoys being wrong, on the internet even more than irl lol, but everyone is at times wrong.

If you are an honest opinion giver here (not the trolls) it is no fun giving negative opinions because the result you actually want will give you egg on your face.

Never the less, i like giving my 2 bob opinions now and then. Good, bad and ugly.

No issue. We all get things wrong. I do daily. It’s reasoning and the ability to discuss why and why not is the key for me.

Your posts are very good and reasoned and IMO you know your stuff. If it was about being right or wrong none of us would post.

 

[Blue and Blue]

It feels like GWS left their delivery truck down at Princes Park and Dylan stowed away inside.

GWS drove back to Sydney and 'WHAT?!? You're on our list now?'

#SorryMEB
#StillLoveDylBucks

Can you repost this so I can like it again....I cracked up

 

[Soapy V]

DC has the skill set, but really does lack footy IQ. Hopefully with some continuity we will get a better understanding where he fits in the scheme

I actually disagree with this bit Arrow. I think he is smart player. Issue for him he’s a deep thinker quiet type and need to build his confidence. Being fitter this year and if he can I believe we will see a much different player

 

[Metalcrusher]

Was always a hell of a lot more interested in J Kelly TBH

Guess we will shake the tree again this year and see what falls out …. GWS will be paying a motza to retain him and this time around at 23 turning 24 he will want a 6 year deal on big $$$ to set himself up.

They have 19 players that need contract renewals at the end of 2019 (4 of which are RFA) … something has to fall off the plate at some stage.

 

[Soapy V]

Was always a hell of a lot more interested in J Kelly TBH

Guess we will shake the tree again this year and see what falls out …. GWS will be paying a motza to retain him and this time around at 23 turning 24 he will want a 6 year deal on big $$$ to set himself up.

They have 19 players that need contract renewals at the end of 2019 (4 of which are RFA) … something has to fall off the plate at some stage.

I’m not one for chasing that ONE player and paying heaps. I reckon he would cost 2 x first rounders and around $1.5m a year over 6 years. That’s a lot. Although I rate Kelly as high as any player and he will be 25.

The question is would Kelly or 3-4 other good players be better for us especially if we landed another McGovern Setterfield Stocker Walsh Newman type group?

Not an easy decision. Personally I lean towards getting more players and improving our depth

 

[true blue19]

Hypothetically, what would have happened if the McGovern deal had have fell through, and we kept our draft picks and access to a State League Player, which we traded.

Of course we traded two 2nd rounders to the Swans to get a first rounder, which was part of the deal. If that deal didn't happen in order to secure McGovern, we had picks 26 and 28...which would have slid down a few rungs in the ND as clubs access academy players etc early in the draft.

We had 4 picks in the ND, so with trades etc, it ended up being:

Mitch McGovern (trade)
Will Setterfield (trade)
Nic Newman (trade)
Fas (FA)
Sam Walsh (ND)
Liam Stocker (ND)
Finbar (? - ND)
BSOS (For/Def - ND)

Without the trade, it may have looked like a bit like this:

Will Setterfield (trade)
Nic Newman (trade)
Fas (FA)
Shane McAdam (State League)
Sam Walsh (ND)
Liam Stocker (ND)
Luke Valente (mid - ND)
Bailey Williams (ruck - ND)

Just interesting to speculate how our list profile may have looked without the trade.

So it's basically

McGovern, Finbar & BSOS vs McAdam, Valente & Williams

The 2nd group looks to fit our needs a lot better with small forward, classy mid and a project ruckman.

 

[murphster]

They've limited our forwards to talls, along with some snaps of Cuningham and an O'Brien cameo.
Probably a fair picture of our forward line.....lacking quality smalls, obviously.

True and I saw that McAdam kicked 3 goals and Stengel kicked 4 goals in the Crows vs Power under23 game, wish we could have got one of those two at least.

 

[true blue19]

I think the McGovern trade was perfect for us. His combination with Charlie & McKay is exciting and balanced. He’s 23. Can go back and has unbelievable talent. Could be anything.

We can look at scenarios regarding last years draft/trade period but going into it if you had told me we would have achieved what we did I would have been very very happy.

And I still believe missing out on Shiel will prove to be a massive positive for us

I'm not sure how well the combination of McGovern, Curnow and McKay will work for us. I think it limits the development of Kerr and De Koning and limits some tactics we could use like playing 2 ruckman (Kreuzer and Lobbe or Phillips) or playing a taller mid up forward like Setterfield, Cripps or JSOS.

 

[true blue19]

I’m not one for chasing that ONE player and paying heaps. I reckon he would cost 2 x first rounders and around $1.5m a year over 6 years. That’s a lot. Although I rate Kelly as high as any player and he will be 25.

The question is would Kelly or 3-4 other good players be better for us especially if we landed another McGovern Setterfield Stocker Walsh Newman type group?

Not an easy decision. Personally I lean towards getting more players and improving our depth

As long as the depth is quality. I think getting someone like Kelly will cost us players before we win a flag. There is a lot of potential stars on our list that we are going to have to pay big coin to keep them. I don't won't us to be the next GWS with every club poaching our young talent.

 

[Soapy V]

I'm not sure how well the combination of McGovern, Curnow and McKay will work for us. I think it limits the development of Kerr and De Koning and limits some tactics we could use like playing 2 ruckman (Kreuzer and Lobbe or Phillips) or playing a taller mid up forward like Setterfield, Cripps or JSOS.

I think combination is great. They compliment each other well and are all different. There will be times McKay can Ruck and Charlie can go into the middle and we mix it up.

I don’t agree with its limits development. It creates depth and competition for spots and importantly our reserves will be a lot stronger. IMO that is the key. A strong reserves really helps with development

I’m extremely excited by our forwards options

 

[true blue19]

I think combination is great. They compliment each other well and are all different. There will be times McKay can Ruck and Charlie can go into the middle and we mix it up.

I don’t agree with its limits development. It creates depth and competition for spots and importantly our reserves will be a lot stronger. IMO that is the key. A strong reserves really helps with development

I’m extremely excited by our forwards options

I hope your right and I can't wait to see it in action. If all 3 player can 30 Plus and the ball doesnt fly out of the 50 every time it hits the ground then I'll be happy.

 

[Soapy V]

I hope your right and I can't wait to see it in action. If all 3 player can 30 Plus and the ball doesnt fly out of the 50 every time it hits the ground then I'll be happy.

I don’t look at it as individuals scoring. I like to see how the team scores. If we can average 85 plus this year that would be incredible for such a young side. A percentage over 90 would be outstanding at this stage

We have so many players through the forward line and midfield that can kick goals. For me that is really exciting.

IMO it will be 2020 before it really clicks consistently but the talent and developing depth is definitely there [emoji106]

 

[CJMB]

I'm not sure how well the combination of McGovern, Curnow and McKay will work for us. I think it limits the development of Kerr and De Koning and limits some tactics we could use like playing 2 ruckman (Kreuzer and Lobbe or Phillips) or playing a taller mid up forward like Setterfield, Cripps or JSOS.

Charlie, Harry & Mitch should make a great combo.

De Koning needs time to grow into his frame, he’s still a couple of years off.

To be honest I’m not worried about stifling Kerr’s development by playing a better footballer in Mitch. That’s like saying you’re worried that playing Murphy means we’re not letting Polson develop as a genuine midfielder...

Kreuzer, Lobbe and Phillips are all rucks who aren’t good at sharing. None of them are great forwards. Harry seems like a decent forward who’s big enough to ruck... here’s an ideas, why don’t we just let him relieve MK/ML/AP when they’re on the bench?

There’s still plenty of opportunities mid game for Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield to rotate forward. Kreuzer probably spends 5 minutes each quarter resting on the bench with Harry relieving him, after which Harry will need a 5 minute rest. That’s 10 minutes a quarter with just Harry and Mitch, sounds like a good time to rotate one of the taller mids through.

Plus Mitch gives us some versatility in that he can swing back mid game if required.

 

[Soapy V]

True and I saw that McAdam kicked 3 goals and Stengel kicked 4 goals in the Crows vs Power under23 game, wish we could have got one of those two at least.

I was keen for McAdam but we can't have everything and fixing the midfield was our priority. I thought we leveraged those PP's well. If we feel we need a small forward and/or a Ruck to top off our list they will be easy to get once we are ready. I see those types as the final prices in the puzzle.

Getting Setterfield Walsh Stocker McGovern BSOS Newman Goddard Finbar Gibbons Cottrell Fasolo was as good as I could have hoped for in just one trade/draft period. We always want more but IMO that was great result.

I remember many saying last year that players will not want to come to us after such a bad year. Imagine what could happen at the end of this season

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

So it's basically

McGovern, Finbar & BSOS vs McAdam, Valente & Williams

The 2nd group looks to fit our needs a lot better with small forward, classy mid and a project ruckman.

We likely would have still picked up BSOS and Finbar as rookies anyway, as well as Goddard/Gibbo/Cotters.

I also think the McGovern trade will work well for us, but it is interesting to look at what our list profile may have been if it had not occurred.

 

[Metalcrusher]

N

I’m not one for chasing that ONE player and paying heaps. I reckon he would cost 2 x first rounders and around $1.5m a year over 6 years. That’s a lot. Although I rate Kelly as high as any player and he will be 25.

The question is would Kelly or 3-4 other good players be better for us especially if we landed another McGovern Setterfield Stocker Walsh Newman type group?

Not an easy decision. Personally I lean towards getting more players and improving our depth

No doubt, however I was replying to the fact you said the Shiel miss was no big deal … of which I concur mate. Was merely saying Kelly v Shiel was a no brainer