Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Spinnaker]

Could this be the Accused CSK? Just prior to CG and very close to Congdon Street Telstra Exchange.

 

[GreyCrow]

Could this be the Accused CSK? Just prior to CG and very close to Congdon Street Telstra Exchange.

168cm , solid muscular, very hairy rules the accused out in my opinion

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Could this be the Accused CSK? Just prior to CG and very close to Congdon Street Telstra Exchange.

Hi Spinnaker, Some of this sounds like previous prowler/intruder incidents we have read about in the report, BUT, the offender in this case was obviously "getting off" by speaking obscenities to the poor terrified woman, not at all like the "strong SILENT type" that had committed all those other intruder incidents? And no cloth for the mouth so victim was able to call out for help. Also unshaven, the perp in the other offences was described as clean shaven and very neatly cut hair and clean clothing. Good find though Spinnaker, as always, and worth consideration.

 

[tapdancingbear]

168cm , solid muscular, very hairy rules the accused out in my opinion

Not disputing what you are saying , but if you read through the descriptions from earlier attacks that people think he was responsible for they are all over the shop ... there are differences in height , build , age ... witnesses are not that reliable when it comes to descriptions

 

[GreyCrow]

Not disputing what you are saying , but if you read through the descriptions from earlier attacks that people think he was responsible for they are all over the shop ... there are differences in height , build , age ... witnesses are not that reliable when it comes to descriptions

True on witnesses but there are 3 stand outs there that ring true

Height - most likely compared to the victim so fairly accurate imo

Solid Muscular = fat but solid. When comparing body shapes we do tend to categorise tall lanky, tall fat , short skinny ,short solid etc

Very hairy = this is the one that says to me the most that its valid. As a descriptor its specific and stands out from the norm.

 

[Krusty Crab]

Not disputing what you are saying , but if you read through the descriptions from earlier attacks that people think he was responsible for they are all over the shop ... there are differences in height , build , age ... witnesses are not that reliable when it comes to descriptions

your average eye witness isnt really that reliable. sure they will get the general idea correct, but they will be wrong on many counts. alot of people dont actually know there own height or weight, which makes it hard to estimate anothers. witnesses will also allow their own influences cloud the description, such as racism, preconceived ideas about attackers, and assumptions of the attackers motivation.

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

Hi Spinnaker, Some of this sounds like previous prowler/intruder incidents we have read about in the report, BUT, the offender in this case was obviously "getting off" by speaking obscenities to the poor terrified woman, not at all like the "strong SILENT type" that had committed all those other intruder incidents? And no cloth for the mouth so victim was able to call out for help. Also unshaven, the perp in the other offences was described as clean shaven and very neatly cut hair and clean clothing. Good find though Spinnaker, as always, and worth consideration.

Sadly we will never know what he may or may not have said to Sarah, Jane and Ciara

 

[Willow weeps]

Sadly we will never know what he may or may not have said to Sarah, Jane and Ciara

Or what was starting to creep back into him.He may have changed everything because of the links he could lead to the three victims. Quieting down his urges seeing he was settling into married life

 

[Beatnicked]

168cm , solid muscular, very hairy rules the accused out in my opinion

Agreed especially the 'southern European' part of description. That would have been due to voice accent.

 

[Beatnicked]

Next Directions 24 April. I am curious as to what will be on the table.

 

[Beatnicked]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/wa/WASC//2019/87.html

Prosecution Case at point 8. ...'she managed to turn to her side and scratched her attacker'.

Surely coppers back then also took scraping from under the victim's nails.

 

[Beatnicked]

Which way did traffic flow in St Quentins in 1996?

 

[Spinnaker]

Which way did traffic flow in St Quentins in 1996?

Pretty sure it was a normal 2 way street.

Bay View Terace was also - they have absolutely ruined BVT - it used to be s lively street.


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[Spinnaker]

True on witnesses but there are 3 stand outs there that ring true

Height - most likely compared to the victim so fairly accurate imo

Solid Muscular = fat but solid. When comparing body shapes we do tend to categorise tall lanky, tall fat , short skinny ,short solid etc

Very hairy = this is the one that says to me the most that its valid. As a descriptor its specific and stands out from the norm.

I have no shadow of a doubt (excuse the pun) that the accused could be described as very hairy. There’s even a hairy chest peeking out there. Big hairy eyebrows. All he needs to do is not shave for a few days.

Could be described as Southern European looking eg. Italian

Agree with TDB, witnesses all over the shop when comes to description.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spinnaker]

Hi Spinnaker, Some of this sounds like previous prowler/intruder incidents we have read about in the report, BUT, the offender in this case was obviously "getting off" by speaking obscenities to the poor terrified woman, not at all like the "strong SILENT type" that had committed all those other intruder incidents? And no cloth for the mouth so victim was able to call out for help. Also unshaven, the perp in the other offences was described as clean shaven and very neatly cut hair and clean clothing. Good find though Spinnaker, as always, and worth consideration.

Thanks GND, I think the obscenities is a valid point to consider, however maybe he had to quieten her down, improvise as he had nothing to put in her mouth to gag her.

Re the lack of cloth in mouth, perhaps his intention was just to steal clothes. It was in the afternoon, he had to get back to work and didn’t have anything. Just thought it was fun to scare her.

Think BRE was often unshaven given above photos

All just guesses on my part, however I don’t think we can rule this break-in and attack out due to location and timeline.

 

[BFew]

don’t think we can rule this break-in and attack out

The last day of Feb 1997 Friday afternoon

Friday afternoon last week

Eric Street Cottesloe home invader, was reported as

wore a navy coloured T-shirt, light shorts and working boots.

.

If it was the accused, and he was not on Annual/Long Service Leave or having a sickie,
he might have knocked off work already and changed into some shorter trousers and a clean T-shirt if it was a warm/hot day.
As opposed to having worked in the that T-shirt and shorts.

He might have worn the same boots after work as during work.

With the Post Edition being March 8-9, 1997, and the date of the alleged crime was Friday February 28, 1997.
The weather on that day in history was not a scorcher.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jacob/summer.html

Summer 1996/97

20th Oct, 1996 36.9 C
11th Nov, 1996 35.9 C
19th Dec, 1996 37.4 C
31st Dec, 1996 38.6 C
1st Jan, 1997 42.2 C
2nd Jan, 1997 40.8 C
3rd Jan, 1997 39.0 C
7th Jan, 1997 37.2 C
8th Jan, 1997 40.9 C
16th Jan, 1997 37.7 C
17th Jan, 1997 37.7 C
24th Jan, 1997 38.5 C
28th Jan, 1997 39.1 C
1st Feb, 1997 42.7 C
2nd Feb, 1997 36.2 C
3rd Feb, 1997 35.0 C
25th Feb, 1997 35.7 C
26th Feb, 1997 44.5 C
27th Feb, 1997 36.7 C
15th Mar, 1997 35.3 C

Edit: 26 Feb was the scorcher that month

 

[Girlnextdoor]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/wa/WASC//2019/87.html

Prosecution Case at point 8. ...'she managed to turn to her side and scratched her attacker'.

Surely coppers back then also took scraping from under the victim's nails.

Agreed Beatnicked. That's what has always made me wonder about whoever the CSK is, surely the offender would have had scratch marks on him on several occasions after continually attacking women, and nobody noticed this - partners, family members, workmates? The old "me cat scratched me" or "was doing some gardening and those bloody rose bushes got me" excuses wouldn't work after awhile.

 

[BlueE]

This is what I have been trying to say ...The whole thing makes no sense .... I have been racking my brain trying to figure it out
Maybe its as simple as being recorded wrong , maybe the charge was sexual assault , the conviction was sexual assault and the clerk of courts made a mistake in recording it .... ive never had a reason for knowing the sentences for sexual assault because ive never had any intention of sexually assaulting anyone ... Clerk of Courts make mistakes like anyone else , I know that from experience , so maybe that's it

This is interesting and doesn't make sense.

Tundrawolf Can you clarify why bre was only convicted for an assault but had to do a sexual offenders course? Was there a plea deal done possibly? A mistake in recording the charge when it should have been a sexual assault? Or something else. Would love to get your opinion.

 

[Beatnicked]

Pretty sure it was a normal 2 way street.

Bay View Terace was also - they have absolutely ruined BVT - it used to be s lively street.


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It is one way east west presently. Why I want clarification is when taxi driver could not locate Sarah he picked up a fare in St Quentin. I am now assuming he drove down Stirling Hwy to Bayview then left into St Quentin.

 

[Beatnicked]

Agreed Beatnicked. That's what has always made me wonder about whoever the CSK is, surely the offender would have had scratch marks on him on several occasions after continually attacking women, and nobody noticed this - partners, family members, workmates? The old "me cat scratched me" or "was doing some gardening and those bloody rose bushes got me" excuses wouldn't work after awhile.

Would scratches be on arms or face.

 

[Beatnicked]

I have no shadow of a doubt (excuse the pun) that the accused could be described as very hairy. There’s even a hairy chest peeking out there. Big hairy eyebrows. All he needs to do is not shave for a few days.

Could be described as Southern European looking eg. Italian

Agree with TDB, witnesses all over the shop when comes to description.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'Very hairy victim description May not be focussed on face...The identikit shows clean faced. Might be about arms and legs given peep was wearing t-shirt and shorts. Photos of bre at little athletic events don't show him as 'Very hairy'. I don't think this perp is him.

 

[Beatnicked]

Interesting bre sported a full beard on arrest day. Hiding his physical identity or just on holidays?

 

[Beatnicked]

Here are the max temps for each month 1996 and 1997

 

[Beatnicked]

The last day of Feb 1997 Friday afternoon Eric Street Cottesloe home invader, was reported as
.

If it was the accused, and he was not on Annual/Long Service Leave or having a sickie,
he might have knocked off work already and changed into some shorter trousers and a clean T-shirt if it was a warm/hot day.
As opposed to having worked in the that T-shirt and shorts.

He might have worn the same boots after work as during work.

With the Post Edition being March 8-9, 1997, and the date of the alleged crime was Friday February 28, 1997.
The weather on that day in history was not a scorcher.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jacob/summer.html


Edit: 26 Feb was the scorcher that month

The post article is dated 8 and 9 March 1997. 8th was
Sat and 9th Sun. The reference to last Friday could mean 7th March.

Perp was said to be about 168cm tall. The victim was attacked standing up therefore there is a good chance coppers were able to gauge with some accuracy the height of offender. They often do that by stepping a victim through what they recall about shoulder to shoulder height.

168cm is 5foot 6inches. Definitely not bre.

 

[BFew]

Here are the max temps for each month 1996 and 1997

Feb has 29 days both in 1996 and 1997 according to chart you posted.
Even worse both what you displayed as 96 and 97 have the same temps for each different year.

They are not the correct temps for Perth in 1997

I think you are using the same site I looked at that when you entered 1997 in the drop down box options it showed temps from another more recent year.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...orching-444c-heat-its-hottest-day-in-18-years

44.5C on 26 February, 1997