Coaching Staff Brendon Bolton - Senior Coach - Locked in until end of 2020 (23/5/18)

[Doro]

Did acrimonious Carlton fans play no part in the upswell of animosity and rejection which lead Ratten was ousted, based on a loss to the GC in Queensland? Did Carlton fans not put public pressure on Ratten from the infamous round 3 loss to Essendon, in which we experienced the two injuries which put paid to our season?

We do not directly influence the club, but we vote with out wallets and with out approval/disapproval. If we are publically against a club coach, watch that individual be removed the second it becomes possible. We are indirectly responsible for the club turning itself around, and the club has noted our approval via our record membership tallies.

I'd be stoked if I had confidence in the board to keep the murmurings out, and to back Bolton to the hilt privately. The absolute last thing I want to hear would be MLG publicly coming out and ensuring Bolton's job security, it's the death knell for a coach.

What is your point amongst all that exactly? The only responsibility I feel is towards honesty in expression of opinion.

 

[Smaug]

So here's a quote from an article I posted after the Richmond game, at the time it ruffled a few feathers, to say the least.




Anyone calling for Bolton to be sacked before r23 is being too emotional. But he does need to deliver this season, and for me it's six wins, if he can't make that happen, the Club should look at their options.

Not calling for him to be sacked - but if there is not a significant turn around on last season - he will be replaced.

Whether or not I want him replaced is irrelevant - the Carlton Football Club stated as much at the end of last season.

All the gnashing of teeth on this thread - and the Club itself has ALREADY stated he is gone if there is no improvement. What else do people want ?

2 Wins last year people. 2.

 

[Doro]

So why have you only singled out one person?

For the same reason you quote posters I suppose.

 

[Gethelred]

FYI crying about anyone suggesting Bolts needs to be questioned on his performance - remeber that the club came out and stated - EMPHATICALLY that last seasons performance was not good enough and considerable improvement was required. Meaning - we were no longer prepared for such bad performances and Boltons position was squarely in the firing line.

Bolton was onboard, understood and entirely agreed with the assessment.

The only people who think its not ok to question the coach are those on here. Seriously if you walked into any football club in the country and said what you are saying now you would be laughed at. Its not even up for debate - every coach is always up for assessment - permanently. Thats what being a club is.

I think, dragon, that you're kidding yourself.

We are 3 games into a 22 game season, and we're talking about firing the coach.

And Gethelred - I think you will find it has been the President who has brought about the new culture - the one who brought Bolts in and showed the faith his ways. Bolts delivered what was expected of him.

And there is nothing wrong with kicking grandma out from behind the wheel and putting Fangio in her place especially when she is veering all over the road and keeps running over cyclists.

Amusing metaphor.

It isn't solely Bolts, but nor is it MLG. It's all of them; Judd, SOS, MLG, Bolton. They all hatched the daring plan, to embark on a hard rebuild and see us through to true contention. Part of that plan was to rebuild the list; part of that plan was to rebuild the club and its culture. Your head coach has been described at various times as the beating heart of the organisation, the captain who dictates the goings on of the ship. Plenty sources have placed Bolton at the centre of our cultural shift, as an agent of change.

I don't have issue with discussing a potential change of coach, I've just yet to see how such a change benefits us in any way whatsoever. Change my mind on that, and the conversation shifts.

 

[Smaug]

..and yet we won alot of games and played finals with a crap list.

Ratten was an awesome coach - people have no idea - seriously. He was the driving force behind Hawthorns midfield - and the reason they won.

The season he was sacked still stands as a record for any AFL club injury wise - how can people not understand that ?


The graph of Carltons performances over the last 20 years have been a single flat line on the heart monitor - with a single "blip" when we rose up the ladder.

Ratten.

His sacking was a disgrace and cost us dearly. Anyone thinking he can't coach - honestly has no idea about football what so ever.

 

[Gethelred]

What is your point amongst all that exactly? The only responsibility I feel is towards honesty in expression of opinion.

That it's a vague kind of moral cowardice to say that, because you do not directly play a role in the removal of a coach from their position, you are not complicit in that removal.

You want to play supercoach with people's lives? Go right ahead. As you were.

 

[Gethelred]

Ratten was an awesome coach - people have no idea - seriously. He was the driving force behind Hawthorns midfield - and the reason they won.

The season he was sacked still stands as a record for any AFL club injury wise - how can people not understand that ?


The graph of Carltons performances over the last 20 years have been a single flat line on the heart monitor - with a single "blip" when we rose up the ladder.

Ratten.

His sacking was a disgrace and cost us dearly. Anyone thinking he can't coach - honestly has no idea about football what so ever.

Truth.

However, how would you get him across, given exactly that sacking? What makes you think he'd want to come back? Again, how do you sack Bolton without damaging the cultural change?

 

[rampar]

Most of our goals are snaps, pack mark and mostly just lucky. No easy goals. Thats a result of coaching and game plan. Its just constant bomb it ****ing long. Malthouse 101

 

[pinot]

On multiple occasion today our young players (Paddy Dow I am looking at you) let the team down with basic skill errors that cost us goals, momentum and pressure.

Does the blame go on the players for that or do we sack Bolton and it magically stops?


I can see the improvement in terms of were a rablle last year, regularly getting pumped by ten goals on a REGULAR basis and more than a healthy amount of 100 plus beltings.

So we have brought the margins back exponentially from 60-100 to 16-33.

Personally the biggest coaching mistake being made is thinking its okay to run with Crippa and 1st and 3rd gamers as our centre square team, too young for mine and that also leads to tired, poor kicks into 50.

It's there, it should get better but a win will shut up most.

Rubbish. Young players are instructed to play the way they are instructed. Skill errors happen everywhere all the time and with all players.

The problem is not the skill errors. If Dow was instructed to hit up a lead player to advantage and he didnt then its a player error.

But do you know what Bolton said pre game? "In the clearance and the player has opportunity to go long he needs to go for it because we have Harry, McGovern and Levi".

So under no terms whatsoever have the players been taught to spread from the contest - not once have players been instructed to kick to advantage when player is on the spread. How are we supposed to move the ball when he has two players on him in zone defence?

His game style is pressure + effort.

Thats awesome - it really is, and happy he is preaching pressure and effort which they get taught at under 18s anyway.

Game plan + ball movement + spreading from the contest.. we have some of the most talented youngsters in the competition and being taught the wrong way.

We are very good at defensive positioning 75% of the time when players sprint back to defend but the ability to spread from the contest and kick to advantage and move the ball quickly is non existent as its not part of the game plan. If you pay close attention players are stationary waiting for the ball to be kicked to them usually lands on their heads which has been happening past three years.

He has to go.

 

[Doro]

That it's a vague kind of moral cowardice to say that, because you do not directly play a role in the removal of a coach from their position, you are not complicit in that removal.

You want to play supercoach with people's lives? Go right ahead. As you were.

Again it's the assumption of extremes. I enjoy talking about Carlton and suddenly I'm a moral coward playing Supercoach with peoples lives. Thanks for the clarification of my apparently strong opinion.

 

[pinot]

Ratten was an awesome coach - people have no idea - seriously. He was the driving force behind Hawthorns midfield - and the reason they won.

The season he was sacked still stands as a record for any AFL club injury wise - how can people not understand that ?


The graph of Carltons performances over the last 20 years have been a single flat line on the heart monitor - with a single "blip" when we rose up the ladder.

Ratten.

His sacking was a disgrace and cost us dearly. Anyone thinking he can't coach - honestly has no idea about football what so ever.

Agree with you - remember Parkin saying out of all the players he has coached Ratten had the most astute football brain.

 

[Smaug]

I think, dragon, that you're kidding yourself.


I don't have issue with discussing a potential change of coach, I've just yet to see how such a change benefits us in any way whatsoever. Change my mind on that, and the conversation shifts.

The guy has been comprehensively out coached in every single game he has been played - I really don't think this is up for debate.

Let me expand.

The way people are looking at this is basically he has NEVER had a real chance due to list, injuries, new coach, etc. Which definitely holds water.

But at the same time he is still the strategist, game day coach, mastermind of how and where things are going. Now even with a team of hairless moles you should be able to see the game plan. See the strategy - etc. But it simply is not there. I'm sorry its just not.

So the debate being had is almost unrelated to each side - one is talking about the struggles a football club has rebuilding a list - which all clubs basically do - and the struggles clubs have with injuries - which all clubs have. And the otherside is talking about the coaches basic coaching ability.

I have never ever seen Bolton deliver a master class in coaching. And heres the rub - a REALLY GOOD coach will make the most of crap players. You will see really interesting tactics and ideas, creative player use, new ideas etc. None of this is evident with Bolton.

As for the benefits of changing - mid year changes are horrendous - never should happen - ever. However I think the players would do well to have a new coach. The feeling of familiarity is overwhelming with Bolton - its a very lovey dovey atmosphere.

When I look at Buckley he is hard as nails - all the support, emotmional support, consideration, and wise forward looking progressiveness is still there - but its still a hard as nails leadership approach.

The two could not be any further apart - Buckley is smashing it with amazing tactics, fantastic support, emotionally etc and playing scintilating football - has built a quality squad which is not the point. Its about the coach. NOT the players.

.

 

[Chasing 17]

Not calling for him to be sacked - but if there is not a significant turn around on last season - he will be replaced.

Whether or not I want him replaced is irrelevant - the Carlton Football Club stated as much at the end of last season.

All the gnashing of teeth on this thread - and the Club itself has ALREADY stated he is gone if there is no improvement. What else do people want ?

2 Wins last year people. 2.

I agree. I'm terrible with my words, but what I'm trying to say is the actual sacking/replacing of Bolton shouldn't happen until after the season is complete.

 

[Gethelred]

Again it's the assumption of extremes. I enjoy talking about Carlton and suddenly I'm a moral coward playing Supercoach with peoples lives. Thanks for the clarification of my apparently strong opinion.

I clarified what I meant. If people want to have a whinge, go right for it; if people want to discuss the role of the coach and whether it could go to another candidate, go for it.

I do wonder, though, how many of the very people who are so lamenting the current status quo would deal with the very public nature of this website critiquing their job performance, to have their spposed inadequacy plastered across multiple threads, to have newspaper articles penned about how soon they will be out of a job.

 

[pinot]

I clarified what I meant. If people want to have a whinge, go right for it; if people want to discuss the role of the coach and whether it could go to another candidate, go for it.

I do wonder, though, how many of the very people who are so lamenting the current status quo would deal with the very public nature of this website critiquing their job performance, to have their spposed inadequacy plastered across multiple threads, to have newspaper articles penned about how soon they will be out of a job.

If you want the $500k + per annum and undeperforming then you need to suck it up princess.

 

[Arr0w]

For the same reason you quote posters I suppose.

How about we talk about the game, players, coaches, etc

 

[Doro]

I clarified what I meant. If people want to have a whinge, go right for it; if people want to discuss the role of the coach and whether it could go to another candidate, go for it.

I do wonder, though, how many of the very people who are so lamenting the current status quo would deal with the very public nature of this website critiquing their job performance, to have their spposed inadequacy plastered across multiple threads, to have newspaper articles penned about how soon they will be out of a job.

It's a part of getting to live the dream. I don't feel sorry for AFL footballers, it's a lucky existence. People have always talked and always will. Some folk like to exert control on the freedom of which the talk occurs. Doesn't change the end result either way.

 

[Gethelred]

The guy has been comprehensively out coached in every single game he has been played - I really don't think this is up for debate.

Let me expand.

The way people are looking at this is basically he has NEVER had a real chance due to list, injuries, new coach, etc. Which definitely holds water.

But at the same time he is still the strategist, game day coach, mastermind of how and where things are going. Now even with a team of hairless moles you should be able to see the game plan. See the strategy - etc. But it simply is not there. I'm sorry its just not.

So the debate being had is almost unrelated to each side - one is talking about the struggles a football club has rebuilding a list - which all clubs basically do - and the struggles clubs have with injuries - which all clubs have. And the otherside is talking about the coaches basic coaching ability.

I have never ever seen Bolton deliver a master class in coaching. And heres the rub - a REALLY GOOD coach will make the most of crap players. You will see really interesting tactics and ideas, creative player use, new ideas etc. None of this is evident with Bolton.

As for the benefits of changing - mid year changes are horrendous - never should happen - ever. However I think the players would do well to have a new coach. The feeling of familiarity is overwhelming with Bolton - its a very lovey dovey atmosphere.

When I look at Buckley he is hard as nails - all the support, emotmional support, consideration, and wise forward looking progressiveness is still there - but its still a hard as nails leadership approach.

The two could not be any further apart - Buckley is smashing it with amazing tactics, fantastic support, emotionally etc and playing scintilating football - has built a quality squad which is not the point. Its about the coach. NOT the players.

.

Hmmm...

First things first: bite your tongue out for complementing Nathan Buckley.

Secondly - humor aside - y'do realise that it took Bucks 7 years in the head gig before his career took on a positive trajectory? That he was precisely that hardarsed, no nonsense straightshooter for the better part of his coaching tenure, and he - and his players - credit him taking a step back and delegating with their newfound verve last year?

Look. I can see what you're getting at. I understand, believe me I do. What I do not see is logic, or a clear pathway from this particular road upon which we find ourselves to any other end. It isn't just Bolton on the line, if he is sacked, it is the list, it is the internal rebuild, it is the entire regime that MLG has built up. SOS would be the only one left standing, and if so it would be in no small part down to his being a club great rather than him having done a good job.

 

[Smaug]

Truth.

However, how would you get him across, given exactly that sacking? What makes you think he'd want to come back? Again, how do you sack Bolton without damaging the cultural change?

I do not think Ratten would come nor would we ask. We burned that bridge.

Bolton would do the right thing and resign - I have no doubt about that. I suspect he would stay on in fact - he would be an excellent person to have around the club.

His real resume was built on his time while Clarkson was away and generally being under Clarkson. No one makes any bones about why he is in the role he is in - he is there to bring the kids through as a cohesive group and instill a mature, dedicated approach going forward.

I personally think we need to look left field - I honestly believe we need a match day strategy coach and someone possibly from internationally or outside the same old same old structure.

I would consider someone from America and even European backgrounds to bring in left field tactics, training, drills, development etc - perhaps look to the other leagues etc.

Coaching has been taken over by the AFL so all this is limited to "qualifications" to keep it all in house - but something bigger than the usual.

I often look at Richmonds appointment of Peggy (? sorry if thats not her name) and think great move. More of it.

Ideal - Bolts, Ratts and Claudio Ranieri

 

[Gethelred]

It's a part of getting to live the dream. I don't feel sorry for AFL footballers, it's a lucky existence. People have always talked and always will. Some folk like to exert control on the freedom of which the talk occurs. Doesn't change the end result either way.

Oooh, now who's going to extremes!

I'm censoring you, am I? Little old moi?

 

[Doro]

How about we talk about the game, players, coaches, etc

We have been. I thought we went okay. There is a gulf in experience in our side from veterans to newbs. It's a Persian gulf.

 

[Gethelred]

If you want the $500k + per annum and undeperforming then you need to suck it up princess.

Has anyone ever told you that you'd make a magnificent straight man in a two man show? Because you would!

 

[Gw2_James]

The 'sack the coach' crew are the biggest club sabotaging arseholes around. Where's that premiership we were going to win from sacking Ratten?

Why are we arseholes? We've given bolts 4 years of support, and what has been achieved? 1 spoon, 2 years of bottom 4 finish, and whats looking like potentially another bottom 4 finish the way things are going.

They preached 66 games until the rebuild is done, how many games are we into that now?

We weren't expecting to finish top 8 for example, we just want to play a competitive style of play. 4 years ago we had goaless quarters, 4 years later and were still going goalless in quarters. We hug the boundary like the malthouse era, and we blindy bomb the ball in our forward, praying it goes in the direction of one of our forwards.

We've bought in all this talent, invested in development, our list is so much more talented then what its been from many years ago, yet whats changed?

I've given bolts 4 years of support, you can check my posts over the years, ive never once raised an eye at him until this year.

We've changed coach after coach, player after player, yet still nothing changes. I just don't know anymore. I'd be happy with them given ratten another crack, atleast under him we were actually very entertaining to watch most of the times.

 

[Chasing 17]

I do wonder, though, how many of the very people who are so lamenting the current status quo would deal with the very public nature of this website critiquing their job performance, to have their spposed inadequacy plastered across multiple threads, to have newspaper articles penned about how soon they will be out of a job.

No one cares about Jenny making 60K, whether she's a good school teacher or not.

 

[Arr0w]

If you want the $500k + per annum and undeperforming then you need to suck it up princess.

How would

We have been. I thought we went okay. There is a gulf in experience in our side from veterans to newbs. It's a Persian gulf.

Hard for any coach