Autopsy Rd 4 - Massive choke - Bottomed out again.

[gbatman]

Until we start using the middle more than a few times a game we'll never be a serious threat.

Yeah I think so.

Unfortunately using the middle is not that simple. Good sides make an effort to defend the middle, you can't just chose to play through the middle of the ground you have to have loose options in there and have the ball in the hands of some really good kicks.

I think perhaps we are pushing up too hard to defend. Leave some players back, leave some forwards back. Try and pull the opposition defence out of the center of the ground.

I know this would leave our defence more vulnerable but it might be worth trialling. It failed trialling a more attacking approach last season but the team we were fielding was terrible.

Perhaps we just haven't got the balance right.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I need to watch the replay again, but which players in the last rolling maul were hell bent on getting the ball out?

To me all they had to do was hold the ball in, get up and go again. There was no way there would have been a holding the ball decision yet we tried our very best to get the ball out, eventually did and the game winner gets kicked.

Just dumb footballers

Yep exactly and especially considering the umpires always swallow their whistles in such circumstances even more bewildering we tried valiantly to get the ball out of congestion .

 

[gbatman]

Setterfield's tackle was anything but a sling. He's rapped the guy up pinged his arms and because he had forward momentum and carried himself forward he slammed his head into the ground. Sometimes concussions in tackles have more to do with the player who's getting tackled rather than the one doing the tackling. IMO Setterfield wrapped him up and went down with him and no more.

 

[HBF]

On the bright side, the Magoos had a win, Walsh is a jet, Cripps would be leading the Brownlow and Weiters has been superb.


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And Kreuzer should come in next week.

 

[timbertron]

In 2016 Boltons first task was fix the defence. He has done that to a large degree.

At the same time they drafted tall kp players as they take longer to develop.
Then in 2017 they started an overhaul of the midfield. This continued in 2018 and this season.

Now they need to get the forward line working. I believe the midfield will develop into one of the best in the comp over the next 3 or so years.
It will happen.

As much as people are frustrated this is the first season the team appears to have a really good list, but it's inexperienced and young. There will be lots of mistakes but I'm content with the approach of Bolts and SOS.

They are trying to build a premiership team, not a finals team. They appear to be doing this.

My only fear is the club bows to pressure and sack Bolts when the 5 year rebuild is only 3.5 years in.

Yesterday was f#%ked. But sacking the coach or telling players to "**** off" is not the answer.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HBF]

Cripps was in tears before they left the field..I also thought good selfishly.
These lads will decide they dont like it...then it will change. Not before.
Up till now they have basked in the protection of the group and coach.
They are learning to fly and will crash a few times first. Hopefully today they landed flat on their beaks hard enough and will spend a week squawking never again to each other.

Hopefully today will be a bit of a watershed moment for our footy club. I"m glad the players are hurting just like us.

 

[lilJeffyG]

At what age are you taught that there should always be someone on the goal line when there is a stoppage?

 

[passmark]

Setterfield's tackle was anything but a sling. He's rapped the guy up pinged his arms and because he had forward momentum and carried himself forward he slammed his head into the ground. Sometimes concussions in tackles have more to do with the player who's getting tackled rather than the one doing the tackling. IMO Setterfield wrapped him up and went down with him and no more.

Setterfield having at least 10 kegs and 5cm on him didn’t help. The kid is a stick.

 

[inyourcool]

There was no double action though

 

[WFGodot]

Which is a sad reflection on the available big forwards. Where were they and why were they not presenting? I watched on tv so it’s difficult to assess whether that’s on the players or the coaches.
It’s hard to fathom how on multiple occasions we go deep, with a top heavy forward line and go literally the shortest player on our team without a big boy in sight. Logically you would expect that at least one plays deep. Still coming to grips with that loss.

 

[teknodeejay]

Setterfield's tackle was anything but a sling. He's rapped the guy up pinged his arms and because he had forward momentum and carried himself forward he slammed his head into the ground. Sometimes concussions in tackles have more to do with the player who's getting tackled rather than the one doing the tackling. IMO Setterfield wrapped him up and went down with him and no more.

It’s a bit similar to the Danger / Kreuzer one isn’t it?
There was no malice or double action. Just one of those consequences of playing a physical high contact sport. Common sense should suggest nothing to answer for but he could get a week.

On the Bolton topic this quote is just interesting : "There's a lack of belief when you're miles away, there's enough signs to show we're in the right direction, but gees we're determined to get a result."

Even if we won yesterday we are definitely miles away from being anything resembling a good team. The execution, structure and ability to influence the game on our terms yesterday was as abysmal as it has been for this year and any time last. Bolton is crazy if he can’t see that they’re still miles away. It’s this kind of blinkered stuff that you can bet we are going to stay in the same position for the rest of the year.

 

[FRUMPY]

Setterfield's tackle was anything but a sling. He's rapped the guy up pinged his arms and because he had forward momentum and carried himself forward he slammed his head into the ground. Sometimes concussions in tackles have more to do with the player who's getting tackled rather than the one doing the tackling. IMO Setterfield wrapped him up and went down with him and no more.

Na he has to be suspended, he didn't bring a pillow to put on the ground before he executed the perfect tackle and land his head on such pillow

 

[sweetchoif]

In 2016 Boltons first task was fix the defence. He has done that to a large degree.

At the same time they drafted tall kp players as they take longer to develop.
Then in 2017 they started an overhaul of the midfield. This continued in 2018 and this season.

Now they need to get the forward line working. I believe the midfield will develop into one of the best in the comp over the next 3 or so years.
It will happen.

As much as people are frustrated this is the first season the team appears to have a really good list, but it's inexperienced and young. There will be lots of mistakes but I'm content with the approach of Bolts and SOS.

They are trying to build a premiership team, not a finals team. They appear to be doing this

My only fear is the club bows to pressure and sack Bolts when the 5 year rebuild is only 3.5 years in.

Yesterday was f#%ked. But sacking the coach or telling players to "**** off" is not the answer.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If they sack Bolton, it will be Malthouse all over again. Add another 5 years to the club being competitive again. And would truly show that the board is incompetent and merely bows to media pressure.

We are on the right track. The reality is that if they last goal by Gold Coast had been 1 metre to the left and hit the post, everyone would be saying what a hard fought, gutsy win it was and that the tide was finally turning for the club.

All this hyper reactive “sack the coach” crap is exaxtly why we have been in the toilet as a club for the last 7 years.

Club needs to progress, but as Carlton supporters we all need to grow up as well - media only pushes this crap because they know we feed off it

 

[ShanDog]

I’ll say it again.. Bolton has no discernible game plan.

It’s chaos out on the field, players allowed to do whatever they want as long as they move it along the boundary line.

The team has no idea of any systematic ball movement, forwards have no idea of where to present because they have no idea where we are moving the ball to.

You can repeat it until you've worn the lettering off your keyboard - it will still be absolute bullshit.

I love "We have no game plan" people.

Just a thought but perhaps the professional football team has a game plan. And maybe it's actually fairly complex, which brings with it a degree of difficulty for the players to execute, let alone for Joe "Keyboard" Bloggs to be able to discern from the TV coverage.

Do people legitimately think having a game plan so obvious and simple that middle-aged ex-suburban footballers being able to clearly see and articulate it three beers into the Fox Footy coverage from their couch is a good thing??

 

[passmark]

Also Suns are 3-1, could be 4-0 or (just as easily) 0-4.

We’re not alone in our misery and having seen two of their other wins they were remarkably similar in that they were ugly, ugly, ugly games of footy.

 

[ESKIE]

It’s not as though we were pulverised game could’ve gone either way

 

[FRUMPY]

It’s a bit similar to the Danger / Kreuzer one isn’t it?
There was no malice or double action. Just one of those consequences of playing a physical high contact sport. Common sense should suggest nothing to answer for but he could get a week.

On the Bolton topic this quote is just interesting : "There's a lack of belief when you're miles away, there's enough signs to show we're in the right direction, but gees we're determined to get a result."

Even if we won yesterday we are definitely miles away from being anything resembling a good team. The execution, structure and ability to influence the game on our terms yesterday was as abysmal as it has been for this year and any time last. Bolton is crazy if he can’t see that they’re still miles away. It’s this kind of blinkered stuff that you can bet we are going to stay in the same position for the rest of the year.

We have played 4 games and been in a winnable position in all 4 games. That says we are not too far away. He isn't saying we aren't far away from being top 8 or a premiership side, but we are not far away from winning and winning multiple games and getting the win graph on the increase.

 

[Stamos]

Yes - I would most definitely trial Teague right now until the end of year and have a good look at him.

That would be an imbecilic decision

 

[1981]

Brendon Bolton is manic, driven, and absolutely a positive for the group.

However, he needs to take a long hard look at himself and his coaching team and structures. Young Dow will not improve unless given the motive and opportunity to do so. Mate, you ****** up but we have your back doesn't cut it. Mate, you need to work on your kicking doesn't cut it. His disposal currently is not AFL standard and has to improve. He is currently shell shocked, the darting eyes begging for an out when faced with a straight forward 35 metre shot at goal says he needs a circuit breaker. More practice and less pressure, a game or two in the twos will not hurt him. He is a huge part of the future, but needs to
be nurtured, rather than being made a liability. Our development coaches need to earn their keep. One poster earlier touched on the technical flaw with his kicking, and I believe was on the right track. The kid has lost confidence and is utilising a constrictive unnatural technique that is exacerbating his issues. As for the judgement howler of going inboard at the death, just wow. Hours of contact, drills, meetings, instruction and he even contemplates going inboard, NAH, that is on you Bolts. Must be taught and drilled, if he doesn't understand or comply, he doesn't play, simples.

We are a tight group doesn't mean they are a group performing at their optimum. The reset, rebuild is done. While Gibbons could be argued, the only real first year playing is Walsh. By admission Bolts has admitted to not over coaching Walshy, kids a natural, great work ethic etc. What bunkum, the number 18 does not simply have the job of flitting around covering his mates or being creative in the modern game, Structures, each player needs to know that the next bloke is going to be in his zone, supporting, defending, receiving or whatever else the play dictates. We have had Simmo sagging off, mopping up, but playing unaccountable for a man for years. Has historically done some bloody good work, but too often has left the defending to others. This all adds pressure down the line. Someone must take up the bloody slack. Structures suffer.

Sorry Bolts, multiple gaps make structures unworkable or non existent. Ratten was guilty of relying on his stars and expecting the rest of the team to "support", cover, back up the guns. This meant Murphy, Gibbs, even Juddy provided the attack and blokes like Brock McLean, Joseph, Jammo et al were supposed to "cover"/ We did not develop a modern, structured game. When we were good, we were very good, when we were bad we were terrible. Bolts is currently pumping up the tyres of the kids deemed to be future stars, while we are rotating some unfortunate peripheral players through. SPS and O'Brien, along with Walsh and hopefully very soon Williamson need to be the blokes delivering to our forwards, not under a pack or mopping up. Young Fisher has a great many skills and tricks, but is not a front line clearance player purely due to not having the physical make up and a penchant for the flashy over the grunt work that Crippa and Kennedy bring. Setterfield, Dow and Walsh will join them in the near future, Ed certainly an option when needed. That is fact, as conjecture, I believe in the short term, at least, Gibbons should be rotated through there. While small, he is happy to mix it and straight line the pill it necessary, however runs to good areas, and presents well.

I understand Casboult being kept in to support Lobbe, however if Charlie and Gov were really fit enough to play, then Harry should have been able to offer a chop out. As it was Harry seemed lost, gone from being the focal point and doing a decent job to being pushed wide and up the ground, yet precluded from his time getting touches, grabs and confidence at the coalface, rucking.

Bolts, please learn from the recent experiences of Hardwick and Buckley, loosen the reins, delegate, release players for specialist training, not just physical programs with Jack Russell. Please also make the prudent calls to make each and every player accountable. Dow, Setterfield, even Charlie or Gov if not fit enough are not above a stint in the twos. Not just Harry, Jack, LOB and Bam Bam.

We have some high quality raw materials, but we need to process and refine them. I feel BB is more focussed on pumping up his young stars, rather than keeping the big picture in mind. At the same time pressure for wins is leading to some difficult to fathom selection calls, which I believe are largely misguide conservatism driven. (eg Casboult creating land of giants to back up Lobbe and fitness questions over Gov and Charlie).

What a difference Kreuzer, Kennedy, Williamson and Cuningham will hopefully make in the near future. No Doc, haven't forgotten you.

Bolts, I believe you are the man to lead us for the foreseeable future, but look in the mirror, temper the intensity and even loyalty in some quarters. Lean on your assistants, and if you can't replace them.

One last little post script Garlett is not a lock down defender, but was forced to attempt to play as one. If we are missing a player type on the list, let's make bloody sure we get one (or more). Garlett could be a rebounder, but can't afford to trial him, as Simmo has the unaccountable role tied up until he retires, maybe in a few months. Our kick ins are woeful, and are taken by not one but two impending retirees, change it up. I well understand experience is at a premium in our side, but we need to move on.

Good point about Harry, why he was so far up the ground amazes me. More coaching flaws

 

[teknodeejay]

Do people legitimately think having a game plan so obvious and simple that middle-aged ex-suburban footballers can spot it three beers into the Fox Footy coverage from their couch is a good thing??

When you’re live you can still see the horrid “game plan” in full flight. The positioning of players off the ball, the no positional movement for over the top counter attacking when there’s a break out of the backline, the positioning of defensive players when there’s an opposition incoming I50 to release the ball around the back and generate some rebound. The movement of forwards to generate separation and provide advantage (even North Melbourne knows how to get this happening). The refusal to have players break to the fat side of the ground but rather boundary line contests (which shows a total lack of belief in players as you want to win by ensuring Patrick Cripps is at every contested play as he’s the most likely to win the ball or at least tackle the opposition).

All visible when at the ground and watching what else is going on. They’re reaping exactly what they’re sowing.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

If it is true (and I still doubt it because it is all kinds of stupid), then it points to a major culture issue. Ask the kid for an explanation first. But yeah if anyone gets a free pass it is Walsh...

What did Walsh do?

 

[1981]

We have played 4 games and been in a winnable position in all 4 games. That says we are not too far away. He isn't saying we aren't far away from being top 8 or a premiership side, but we are not far away from winning and winning multiple games and getting the win graph on the increase.

I wouldn't bet on this. GC was the one and we blew it. We are only in games because we are restraining the opposition from scoring. But we aren't scoring. Our forwards-mids connect is all over the shop

 

[pinot]

That would be an imbecilic decision

As bad as Bolton continuing to coach. We need a fresh approach and new ideas because this isn't working.

 

[ShanDog]

When you’re live you can still see the horrid “game plan” in full flight. The positioning of players off the ball, the no positional movement for over the top counter attacking when there’s a break out of the backline, the positioning of defensive players when there’s an opposition incoming I50 to release the ball around the back and generate some rebound. The movement of forwards to generate separation and provide advantage (even North Melbourne knows how to get this happening). The refusal to have players break to the fat side of the ground but rather boundary line contests (which shows a total lack of belief in players as you want to win by ensuring Patrick Cripps is at every contested play as he’s the most likely to win the ball or at least tackle the opposition).

All visible when at the ground and watching what else is going on. They’re reaping exactly what they’re sowing.

So there IS a plan!

 

[HARKER]

Yesterday was f#%ked. But sacking the coach or telling players to "**** off" is not the answer.

It's useless crying out for Bolton to be sacked because it won't happen nor should happen through the course of this year.
Evaluate things at the end of the year by all means, but let's allow the workings to develop as frustrating as they are right now.

Anyone going to the effort of typing out for players to piss off, should really have a think about things.
No players future is set in stone playing at the premium level. It's not hard for the MC to drop a player for whatever reason and if they simply carry some that don't care to perform, then the question has to be asked to the coaches and the MC.....not the player.


When you have a good look at things, we do have a squad worthy of better results than have fronted to date but the gelling process is killing us as it must be killing Bolton and co. Not sure what the immediate answer is but we have plenty to prove this coming weekend.