Autopsy Rd 4 - Massive choke - Bottomed out again.

[Arr0w]

I’ve told you, I haven’t seen much if any attacking layers at all being added to his ‘defensive and ultra conservative’ style.
Not since they first quarter in that first game against Richmond last year where we moved the ball at speed and scored 5 goals before they had even scored one. Yes injuries during that game and subsequently throughout the year not only derailed the addition of attacking layers but also detailed the season.
Did we go too offensive in that game against Richmond, maybe maybe not, too hard to tell if without the injuries in the game it would have paid off.

And since then, up until the first 4 games of this season, I haven’t seen anywhere near the addition of that type of attacking.. I’ll say it again, look at the heat map for any of our games this year and you’ll see quite clearly that all the heat is 99.9% directed along the boundary line, the middle is usually as cold as a fridge.

Let me ask a question now:
You obviously know my thoughts on Bolton from last season and Yes last year we had our season derailed by mass injuries, but let me ask you:

What is your measurement for how good a coach is.. is it when he has a good enough team to win games, or is it when a coach can manufacture a win or wins even though he doesn’t have a good enough team to do so?

Additionally, if injuries were an obstacle (and they were) to winning more than 2 games last year.. why do we have to excuse Bolton’s inability to manufacture not a win last year but at least competitive or even semi-competitive performances instead of thrashings, especially when at least one team had only 16 players on the field for the last quarter?

You can seriously say that last year we didn't play a more attacking style of football, compared to his first 2 years?

I measure a coach, dependent on the list he has to work with. If he is purely trying to just win games short term, without the appropriate teaching/development aspects, I lose interest, as was the case with Pagan, Ratten and Malthouse, all of who extracted some level of success, yet never developed the side

I am not interested in last year, it was a written of at every level, given our injuries.

Tell me, name me 4 games in a row, in the last 3 years, that we have been more competitive as the 4 games this season?

 

[carlton2dabone]

Board.. !!!

You got me, you found a misspelled word in a post I typed out really fast on my phone.. ok you win.. does that make you happy?

 

[Arr0w]

There is no question at all about that - none.

Yes - clubs measure progress by wins. Says a lot that you would even post that.

You are wrong, a club in our situation does not measure progress by the number of wins, while we are trying to develop a young core of players

 

[Blue and Blue]

You are wrong, a club in our situation does not measure progress by the number of wins, while we are trying to develop a young core of players

Wasting your time mate. Points to some proverbial fido doo and a steep hill.. Be easier to kick that to the top.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

You got me, you found a misspelled word in a post I typed out really fast on my phone.. ok you win.. does that make you happy?

Lol,lol,lol,lol

 

[El Topo]

assistant coaches' careers can be shot down quickly if a club isn't performing

 

[Smaug]

I wasnt talking about you ..... but if the cap fits wear it. This agressive stance...seen it before. Quite a few times. The exact same style and word use.

Honestly - you haven't even been here for a year but you can analyse peoples "posting styles" and word use on a website with over 100,000 users.

Well done.

Maybe I'm Parrot ?

 

[BigBlue]

All his posts are on this thread sus lol! I haven't posted the same shit 49 times on this thread.By the way your post to dribble count is starting to clog up the boards toilet, please cease .

Who made you judge and jury? Why can't he have an opinion? Oh sorry, you have 7000 posts. I see how this place works. This is the true definition of a boys club.

You sir, are a knob...

 

[DangerousD]

All his posts are on this thread sus lol! I haven't posted the same shit 49 times on this thread.By the way your post to dribble count is starting to clog up the boards toilet, please cease .

My last 20 or so posts have been on this thread, not really relevant.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Honestly - you haven't even been here for a year but you can analyse peoples "posting styles" and word use on a website with over 100,000 users.

Well done.

Maybe I'm Parrot ?

I know when I came here I wasnt so rude to the veterans..or anybody..

It's your choice and of course its anonymous so its easy to say things without any accountability.....

 

[Spear]

You are wrong, a club in our situation does not measure progress by the number of wins, while we are trying to develop a young core of players

In a way, coaches deflect pressure off themselves and the club by using these statements. Not measuring wins and losses is fair up until a point.

Against the top 4-8 sides, we are measuring development IMO. But it is false to think we are measuring development versus Gold Coast and Saints. Here we are measuring wins and losses. Those other sides in between, depending on how their season unfolds, they could go either way on expectations.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

The club is bigger than any individual. If we go 4-18 this year do you still keep him?

If we have a percentage approx 80 then we definitely keep him. If its 70 or below then maybe its time. But i think an 80% season is a huge step forward from last year.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

But they have covered a lot more areas of discussion Dane.

 

[HBF]

Wow this thread has some serious argy bargy in it.

 

[Iamcarlton]

One only need watch Bolton’s press post match press conferences to see the way he dimeanor has changed, it’s clear as day he is starting to feel the pressure bearing down him.

The look on his face and his body language when GC kicked that goal with 10 seconds left, no anger but more the look of resignation.

If Bolton is feeling the pressure, then it’s a guarantee that others in the club from players to assistsnts are feeling it to.

That's great happy for the heat to start mounting on the club .
We are in the 4th year of a rebuild now bit of pressure won't hurt them we'll see what we are made of now won't we .
There's plenty of signs that we have some players really stepping up this year already Weitering Jones SPS McKay time for some more to follow

 

[carlton2dabone]

You can seriously say that last year we didn't play a more attacking style of football, compared to his first 2 years?

I measure a coach, dependent on the list he has to work with. If he is purely trying to just win games short term, without the appropriate teaching/development aspects, I lose interest, as was the case with Pagan, Ratten and Malthouse, all of who extracted some level of success, yet never developed the side

I am not interested in last year, it was a written of at every level, given our injuries.

Tell me, name me 4 games in a row, in the last 3 years, that we have been more competitive as the 4 games this season?

I agreed with you that in the first game last year against Richmond we started off adding a very attacking layer compared to 2016/2017, but as you also acknowledge, once injuries in that game and then subsequently throughout the year hit, we logically retreating back into a more defensive style.
Unfortunately we haven’t attempted anything anywhere like that again this year.

We certainly been more competitive this year than last year, definitely. Wouldn’t say that with any certainty regarding 2016-2017, because as you know we win a third of our games in both of those years, so the jury is still out on that won.


And lastly, acknowledging that we have been much more competitive this year than last year isn’t a tick for the coach when everyone wants to treat last year as a complete write off due to injuries.

Not too mention we certain talented players back from injury as well as adding better players than those we delisted last year.
Being competitive isn’t a yardstick from which to measure the coach performance, being competitive is a minimum that any club with our talent should provide at a minimum.

 

[HARKER]

View attachment 655399

Right. I neglected to add the 'Most'

Just one word, but it makes for all the difference

Nice shot of Johnny though.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Who are all these new posters?

Blow ins who just signed up this year?

There was this pathetic w***er behind me at the game yesterday just abusing Charlie Curnow all game it was embarrassing. Its ok to be critical and even have a vent after a loss like that but get ahold of yourselves.

The team are young and this rebuild will take time, you can build a team that competes for 8th spot like Essendon or you can do it properly and build a premiership team.

 

[Smaug]

I know when I came here I wasnt so rude to the veterans..or anybody..

It's your choice and of course its anonymous so its easy to say things without any accountability.....

Mate give it a rest with your passive aggresive argy bargie. I've seen posters on here for years who were just horrific - do you remember Strawberry Pancakes - and posters who literally made the entire place light up - Parrot - how long they were here for was irrelevant.

The one thing which is consistently horrific about this place over past decade and half has been self appointed "gate keepers". Especially ones who don't even know who "Parrot" is.....

 

[Blue and Blue]

Wow this thread has some serious argy bargy in it.

Seems to me the same agressive tone is being used by a bevy of new posters..with the same mantra.
I tend to be sceptical of coincidences like that.

 

[carlton2dabone]

I know when I came here I wasnt so rude to the veterans..or anybody..

It's your choice and of course its anonymous so its easy to say things without any accountability.....

He didn’t start of or intend to be rude to anyone, he was just stating his opinion on the way the club is going and responding to those who responded to his posts.

Unfortunately it was the ‘veterans’ that felt entitled to start attacking him personally rather than his arguments that caused this ruckus

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Troll,troll,lol

 

[Blue and Blue]

He didn’t start of or intend to be rude to anyone, he was just stating his opinion on the way the club is going and responding to those who responded to his posts.

Unfortunately it was the ‘veterans’ that felt entitled to start attacking him personally rather than his arguments that caused this ruckus

Really.....Dont think so mate...maybe have another look

 

[Smaug]

You are wrong, a club in our situation does not measure progress by the number of wins, while we are trying to develop a young core of players

No I'm not. Every person at the club who has ever spoken in the media - from Judd to Bolton has specifcally pointed towards "wins" as an indication the club is progressing.

Bolton specifically mentioned it in his presser.

You are just trying to sound sophisticated and philosophical - the reality is that its a game of football and it is measured by win loss ratio - specifcally.

You "creative" idea would see us at the seasons end with no wins but "real progress" in player development - honestly spare us the hubris.

 

[gbatman]

Great post that answers everyone's queries but you can be sure that haters gonna hate!

People are impatient. The harsh reality is this is another building year and we are a couple of seasons away from playing some really good quality football.

2015 - Huge clean out of players for no return, change of coach.
2016 - A competitive bottom side, new coach and start of rebuild. Big clean out.
2017 - Mildly competitive but a bottom side. Another clean out.
2018 - Had a further clean out, bottomed right out, got flogged a lot and some big margins towards the end.

2019 - development year, will be in most games but won't win many. Most players acquired now.
2020 - competitive year, will be in most games will win 5-10.
2021 - finals footy or close to it.
2022 - Prime time.

2022 Team
B: Marchbank (25) Jones (31) Newman (29)
HB: Docherty (28) Weitering (24) Williamson (23)
C: O'Brien (22) Cripps (27) Walsh (21)
HF: Cuningham (25) Curnow (25) McGovern (27)
F: [Missing] McKay (24) [Missing]
OB: DeKoning (22) Fisher (23) [Missing]
IC: SPS (24) Setterfield (24) Stocker (21) Dow (22)

Depth
Silvagni (24) Plowman (27) Macreadie (24) Polson (24) Pickett (25) Kennedy (25) etc.

What's good about that side is that it's in it's prime. Only 5 players there are outside of that 23-28 year age bracket and if we recruit well it will either not matter or it will be less. Plenty of time to to bring in top quality players. You would like to think we can bring in 3-6 genuine gun players by then.

We just have to be really really bloody patient. This is a 7 year rebuild where we spend most of it down the bottom.