Autopsy Rd 4 - Massive choke - Bottomed out again.

[Metalcrusher]

Is there a post that shows the average age and games played of our starting 22 over these four rounds versus previous years? If so, I would be interested in reading it - thanks

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/beyond-the-66-game-rebuild.1129290/page-43

 

[Smaug]

I measure stress, disappointment and uncertainty around unrealistic expectations rather than the reality of a rebuild that is tracking no worse than any other side that has undertaken this level of restructure

Never once have I said it is all rosy, all I am suggesting is it being measured against other sides that have followed a similar path

Trying to sugar coat it with "level of restructure" is beyond irrelevant. We are now starring down the barrel of being one of the worst performed clubs in the history of the game since 2000 - and certainly the last 4 years would be on par for some of the worst ever.

"Level of restructure" is quite simply an absurd distraction from the reality.

The only teams which have performed as badly as us no longer exist - I can really only think of Fitzroy - which was literally look away and hide your face bad.

Carltons rebuild has been one of the best I have seen as far as recruiting goes - it was a master class. Unfortunately the coaching is becoming an unmittigated disaster - and everyone sees it except, like in the Malthouse days, those blinded by loyalty.

 

[Arr0w]

Is there a post that shows the average age and games played of our starting 22 over these four rounds versus previous years? If so, I would be interested in reading it - thanks

Average age is a poor indicator, what is more important is the number of players in each age group. Go back to each post game discussion thread, first post and you will find all the information you need

 

[Metalcrusher]

Trying to sugar coat it with "level of restructure" is beyond irrelevant. We are now starring down the barrel of being one of the worst performed clubs in the history of the game since 2000 - and certainly the last 4 years would be on par for some of the worst ever.

"Level of restructure" is quite simply an absurd distraction from the reality.

The only teams which have performed as badly as us no longer exist - I can really only think of Fitzroy - which was literally look away and hide your face bad.

Carltons rebuild has been one of the best I have seen as far as recruiting goes - it was a master class. Unfortunately the coaching is becoming an unmittigated disaster - and everyone sees it except, like in the Malthouse days, those blinded by loyalty.

All these masterclass picks need time to formate as a group and gel champ. You cannot throw 42 odd new faces together and expect them to play A+ footy …. just doesn't happen.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Average age is a poor indicator, what is more important is the number of players in each age group. Go back to each post game discussion thread, first post and you will find all the information you need

Don't forget games of AFL footy those age profiles have played in said group. Some of our players have huge upside/talent/ but have not had enough games to release or upskill their footy IQ …...

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Average age is a poor indicator, what is more important is the number of players in each age group. Go back to each post game discussion thread, first post and you will find all the information you need

Thank you.

Also thank you Metalcrusher.

You have solved the problem of what I was going to do tonight .

Wow this FBI poster is a freak. Absolute excellent work.

 

[Arr0w]

Trying to sugar coat it with "level of restructure" is beyond irrelevant. We are now starring down the barrel of being one of the worst performed clubs in the history of the game since 2000 - and certainly the last 4 years would be on par for some of the worst ever.

"Level of restructure" is quite simply an absurd distraction from the reality.

The only teams which have performed as badly as us no longer exist - I can really only think of Fitzroy - which was literally look away and hide your face bad.

Carltons rebuild has been one of the best I have seen as far as recruiting goes - it was a master class. Unfortunately the coaching is becoming an unmittigated disaster - and everyone sees it except, like in the Malthouse days, those blinded by loyalty.

Now we are going back 19 years? Is it possible to concentrate on just this last 3 years and 4 games? I am never blinded by loyalty, have a look at my history and you will see plenty of posts critical of certain aspects, perhaps I just deliver in a way that most pessimists aren't accustomed too

 

[Smaug]

Not sure why you and so many others keep focusing on the past. This season is 4 games old and we have been more consistent than any 4 games in any of the last 4 years

False. It would appear you have not watched the game against Gold Coast yet ? Sydney game was a disaster - truly shocking. From halfway through the first quarter they had our measure and never looked back. They were literally toying with us. Port are also disaster - basket case.

As every man and his dog is saying - its not the players - its the game plan and coaching. It really is clear as day what the issue is.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Always interests me when a new name posts like an old pro.........
Non stop too

 

[carlton2dabone]

Okay so you concede and agree regarding what and how we played in the first 2 years

Again, I am not interested what it "feels like" just interested in what has taken place. No rational person blames injuries, it is just an accepted reason, same as why the Crows and Saints had poor seasons last year and why the Lions were so competitive last year on the back of one injury to best 22 in the 2nd half of the year when they lost Cameron.

We weren't ultra defensive, Bolton actually added attacking layers from the first game against the Tigers and heldd most of that structure despite the horrendous injuries, which will be a defining decision one way or another. The game you might be eluding too, when we pushed numbers behind the ball was the last game of the year, against the Crows. I remember a more qualified coach doing something similar in his 2nd year as GWS's coach against the Bombers, when he had 10 players in the defensive end. If you have ever coach, you may understand the reasoning

So given he started with 2 years of being defensive and ultra conservative, then added many attacking layers (I thought it was too strong considering the personnel available) in his 3rd year

Tell me what you see in the first 4 games of this season

I’ve told you, I haven’t seen much if any attacking layers at all being added to his ‘defensive and ultra conservative’ style.
Not since they first quarter in that first game against Richmond last year where we moved the ball at speed and scored 5 goals before they had even scored one. Yes injuries during that game and subsequently throughout the year not only derailed the addition of attacking layers but also detailed the season.
Did we go too offensive in that game against Richmond, maybe maybe not, too hard to tell if without the injuries in the game it would have paid off.

And since then, up until the first 4 games of this season, I haven’t seen anywhere near the addition of that type of attacking.. I’ll say it again, look at the heat map for any of our games this year and you’ll see quite clearly that all the heat is 99.9% directed along the boundary line, the middle is usually as cold as a fridge.

Let me ask a question now:
You obviously know my thoughts on Bolton from last season and Yes last year we had our season derailed by mass injuries, but let me ask you:

What is your measurement for how good a coach is.. is it when he has a good enough team to win games, or is it when a coach can manufacture a win or wins even though he doesn’t have a good enough team to do so?

Additionally, if injuries were an obstacle (and they were) to winning more than 2 games last year.. why do we have to excuse Bolton’s inability to manufacture not a win last year but at least competitive or even semi-competitive performances instead of thrashings, especially when at least one team had only 16 players on the field for the last quarter?

 

[Smaug]

Now we are going back 19 years? Is it possible to concentrate on just this last 3 years and 4 games? I am never blinded by loyalty, have a look at my history and you will see plenty of posts critical of certain aspects, perhaps I just deliver in a way that most pessimists aren't accustomed too

Mate - Bolton has won 15 games in something like 70 games. That is the worst coaching record (win /loss) in modern football history. Even if you take select periods of coaching during a rebuild.

I was very specfic about the last 4 years.

 

[Arr0w]

False. It would appear you have not watched the game against Gold Coast yet ? Sydney game was a disaster - truly shocking. From halfway through the first quarter they had our measure and never looked back. They were literally toying with us. Port are also disaster - basket case.

As every man and his dog is saying - its not the players - its the game plan and coaching. It really is clear as day what the issue is.

I watch every game, then generally watch it at least another 2 times.

Sydney game? The one that we had more scoring shots, missed some sitters in the first and last quarter and lost to a side that has made the top 8 more times than any other side in the last 20 years?

Port look like making finals, we lost by under 3 goals

What else would you like to cover?

 

[BlueAbroad]

Let my emotions settle before I did the player ratings.

VIDEO
PODCAST

 

[All Australian]

The reason our list has the age demographic that it has is because we made it that way. We've had 4 drafts and trade periods to rectify it yet here we are. Sure we tried to get Shiel, Rockliff amongst others and failed. We went for the injury riddled players because of the discounted price. Some were successful some are, well, injured. Maybe we should have upped the ante and been willing to offer more in terms of picks and $$$$ to get the necessary 23/ 26 year olds. Some posters believe we will target them this year. Wouldn't want to end up empty handed again.

 

[Arr0w]

Mate - Bolton has won 15 games in something like 70 games. That is the worst coaching record (win /loss) in modern football history. Even if you take select periods of coaching during a rebuild.

I was very specfic about the last 4 years.

15 in 70? what happened to 3 in 35?

Do you really think a professional club, measures progress in this manner?

 

[Smaug]

Always interests me when a new name posts like an old pro.........
Non stop too

Fascinating. What does this mean ? Your 9 month old account has veterans benefits ?

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Chicken little thread is worth a look

 

[carlton2dabone]

All his posts are on this thread sus lol! I haven't posted the same shit 49 times on this thread.By the way your post to dribble count is starting to clog up the boards toilet, please cease .

Best direct your own troll responses to your own dribble then if you insist on acting like the baord’s janitor

 

[Smaug]

15 in 70? what happened to 3 in 35?

Do you really think a professional club, measures progress in this manner?

There is no question at all about that - none.

Yes - clubs measure progress by wins. Says a lot that you would even post that.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Best direct your own troll responses to your own dribble then if you insist on acting like the baord’s janitor

Board.. !!!

 

[gbatman]

Why we suck.

Prime age of footballers 23-28 years.

Prime age players in our side for this match:
Newman, Plowman, Jones, Gibbons, McGovern, Cripps.

Most of them played pretty well too.

Huge lack of maturity and an incomplete transitional process with the others being players past their best. Our players past their best are just that, Still playing good football but not of the level of a good player in their prime and not of the level they played in their prime. Our young players are playing like young players, at about 3/4 or a little less of what their output in their prime will be and there is a lot of them.

Most of our players outside the prime age group apart from the really high quality ones are off the pace because they are either getting older and losing it or they just haven't matured yet.

Best 22 Missing:
Docherty, Williamson, Kreuzer, Cuningham maybe Pickett.

It's a bit of an issue. All teams have their injuries though. For a team lacking depth and prime age players any outs hurt.

Experience
100+ Games
Murphy, Simpson, Jones, Lobbe, Curnow, Thomas, Casboult. Apart from Jones they are all past their prime.

50+ Games
Cripps, McGovern, Plowman, Weitering, Curnow. A good group but it's a small group. Players usually play their best around that 60 or 70 game mark but most players need those 50 games to really get into playing good AFL level footy.

10 players under 50 games and 14 under 100 games.

Holes
The incomplete rebuild still hangs over our head. We've ticked off a hell of a lot of boxes in a short time frame. Tall defenders and tall forwards tick. Midfield is mostly built but there are a couple of holes here. Medium/small defenders is ok and fine without injuries. No small/medium forwards. We need 4 really good players to jump this hurdle in front of us. Two gun small forwards and two gun midfielders would go pretty close to the rebuild being finished. Do we have the picks and can we get the free agents though?

Solution
Time. We need to inject age and games into our team. Mature bodies who are a little smarter, stronger and and can run a little harder will come from age and help us a great deal.

Recruitment. We need an elite midfielder or two, we need some top level smaller forwards. We need to get to a point where Murphy, Curnow, Thomas, Simpson and Kreuzer are getting pushed out but they are all still integral parts of our side. Our rebuild is A while away just yet and that is no fault of our own, we just haven't had the resources to get there. Put two or three priority picks in our history and those holes are probably filled or add a couple of free agents and some big name recruits without losing any players and those holes will get filled over the next couple of seasons. If.

Coaching
I'm not sure why we can't have three tall forwards out there and have them all working together. I'm not sure why we can't get them in the right spots. It's a bit pathetic really. Are they poor learners or do our coaches have no idea how to train good structures? This has got to get better, no point having three marking forwards if we aren't going to get them in the right spots and use them. There are always challenges with coaching and this is just something which we just need to get right. We're doing a lot right but this three tall forward structure and getting them to the right places at the right times and splitting them up is a tricky one.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Fascinating. What does this mean ? Your 9 month old account has veterans benefits ?

I wasnt talking about you ..... but if the cap fits wear it. This agressive stance...seen it before. Quite a few times. The exact same style and word use.

 

[HBF]

OMG......72 pages. Not sure if it's already been mentioned. Is that some kind of record?
I think this forum is very cathartic for us suffering Blues. Have you all vented our spleen yet?

Let's just think of us like the renaissance period. After all this suffering the joy of being a champion team again will be sooooooo sweeet.

After the game yesterday I stayed off the boards for over an hour just to calm down as that was a frustrating final minute of the match.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I wasnt talking about you ..... but if the cap fits wear it. This agressive stance...seen it before. Quite a few times. The exact same style and word use.

I’m not worried.. I think we’re going to plan...

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Why we suck.

Prime age of footballers 23-28 years.

Prime age players in our side for this match:
Newman, Plowman, Jones, Gibbons, McGovern, Cripps.

Most of them played pretty well too.

Huge lack of maturity and an incomplete transitional process with the others being players past their best. Our players past their best are just that, Still playing good football but not of the level of a good player in their prime and not of the level they played in their prime. Our young players are playing like young players, at about 3/4 or a little less of what their output in their prime will be and there is a lot of them.

Most of our players outside the prime age group apart from the really high quality ones are off the pace because they are either getting older and losing it or they just haven't matured yet.

Best 22 Missing:
Docherty, Williamson, Kreuzer, Cuningham maybe Pickett.

It's a bit of an issue. All teams have their injuries though. For a team lacking depth and prime age players any outs hurt.

Experience
100+ Games
Murphy, Simpson, Jones, Lobbe, Curnow, Thomas, Casboult. Apart from Jones they are all past their prime.

50+ Games
Cripps, McGovern, Plowman, Weitering, Curnow. A good group but it's a small group. Players usually play their best around that 60 or 70 game mark but most players need those 50 games to really get into playing good AFL level footy.

10 players under 50 games and 14 under 100 games.

Holes
The incomplete rebuild still hangs over our head. We've ticked off a hell of a lot of boxes in a short time frame. Tall defenders and tall forwards tick. Midfield is mostly built but there are a couple of holes here. Medium/small defenders is ok and fine without injuries. No small/medium forwards. We need 4 really good players to jump this hurdle in front of us. Two gun small forwards and two gun midfielders would go pretty close to the rebuild being finished. Do we have the picks and can we get the free agents though?

Solution
Time. We need to inject age and games into our team. Mature bodies who are a little smarter, stronger and and can run a little harder will come from age and help us a great deal.

Recruitment. We need an elite midfielder or two, we need some top level smaller forwards. We need to get to a point where Murphy, Curnow, Thomas, Simpson and Kreuzer are getting pushed out but they are all still integral parts of our side. Our rebuild is A while away just yet and that is no fault of our own, we just haven't had the resources to get there. Put two or three priority picks in our history and those holes are probably filled or add a couple of free agents and some big name recruits without losing any players and those holes will get filled over the next couple of seasons. If.

Coaching
I'm not sure why we can't have three tall forwards out there and have them all working together. I'm not sure why we can't get them in the right spots. It's a bit pathetic really. Are they poor learners or do our coaches have no idea how to train good structures? This has got to get better, no point having three marking forwards if we aren't going to get them in the right spots and use them. There are always challenges with coaching and this is just something which we just need to get right. We're doing a lot right but this three tall forward structure and getting them to the right places at the right times and splitting them up is a tricky one.

Great post that answers everyone's queries but you can be sure that haters gonna hate!