Stalingrad - 75th anniversary of the defeat of the German 6th Army

[Kram]

I think I read something about if there was a deserter within a unit the leader as a deterrent would walk along and randomly shoot other remaining soldiers in it until his pistol ran out of bullets. Brutal.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

My grandfather was born in the Austro Hungarian Empire and ended up fighting for Hungary on the Russian front.

He told a story the the Russians would attack in a constant wave where the guys at the front would carry a rifle. They would be mowed down by machine gun, only for the unarmed men charging behind to pick up the rifle and continue the charge.

The Russians knew the machine gunners would run out of ammo, even if just a change of feed or the machine gun barrels would get so hot they would bow.

To avoid the machine gun barrels bowing, a second axis soldier would rub snow along the barrel but this ultimately made the weapon brittle and finally explode.

The granddad I knew was a wonderful man but no doubt a man that carried demons. Seeing and being a part of such bloody and close quarter combat took its toll. However he claimed the biggest fear on the Russian front was the cold........fall asleep in minus 40 and you freeze to death.

So your either in brutal combat with an enemy so great in number you’re either overwhelmed and killed or tearing through a wall of human flesh just 50 yards away. Or sitting awaiting in minus 40 barely keeping your eyes open, next to your hard as ice fellow soldier who fell victim to exhaustion.

The Hungarian first division did really well. But the second division were thrown into battle poorly equipped and trained. The Russians concentrated on them when they encircled von Paulus at Stalingrad as they knew they were a weak point. A weak point compared to Wehrmacht units but still more adept than any British or American unit ever was. Evidently those that survived caused Russians serious problems in 44 and 45 as the red army came through hungary.

I would be interested of your opinion of that link I posted above about the Russian children in occupied territories

They nearly were killed by German soldiers. Some may say that this would of been a humanitarian act as these children were suffering. No one had the ability to feed them or give them shelter and many kids died a horrible death in Stalingrad during this time. Simply rotted away in the cold from starvation and disease. These kids were lying in bed to scared to move waiting to die. They were very lucky how close they were to Russian positions. Children and old people further inside occupied territory were not so lucky.

What do you do if you're a German soldier and come across kids like this? Let them rot or put them out of thier misery?

Baring in mind the Germans were starving and freezing themselves and had no ability to feed or cloth them. At any point artillery could hit the buildings and kill or worse maim the kids to increase thier suffering

 

[Power Raid]

The Hungarian first division did really well. But the second division were thrown into battle poorly equipped and trained. The Russians concentrated on them when they encircled von Paulus at Stalingrad as they knew they were a weak point. A weak point compared to Wehrmacht units but still more adept than any British or American unit ever was. Evidently those that survived caused Russians serious problems in 44 and 45 as the red army came through hungary.

I would be interested of your opinion of that link I posted above about the Russian children in occupied territories

They nearly were killed by German soldiers. Some may say that this would of been a humanitarian act as these children were suffering. No one had the ability to feed them or give them shelter and many kids died a horrible death in Stalingrad during this time. Simply rotted away in the cold from starvation and disease. These kids were lying in bed to scared to move waiting to die. They were very lucky how close they were to Russian positions. Children and old people further inside occupied territory were not so lucky.

What do you do if you're a German soldier and come across kids like this? Let them rot or put them out of thier misery?

Baring in mind the Germans were starving and freezing themselves and had no ability to feed or cloth them. At any point artillery could hit the buildings and kill or worse maim the kids to increase thier suffering

Wow I wasn’t aware of that horror

Soldiers may have a brutal job and sometimes do horrible things beyond acceptable behaviour. However, they are just men and staring into a suffering kid’s eyes could bring them back to reality.

No one wants to see an animal suffer and would do the right thing. I can see how doing the same for kids or others in general could be an act of compassion.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Wow I wasn’t aware of that horror

Soldiers may have a brutal job and sometimes do horrible things beyond acceptable behaviour. However, they are just men and staring into a suffering kid’s eyes could bring them back to reality.

No one wants to see an animal suffer and would do the right thing. I can see how doing the same for kids or others in general could be an act of compassion.

Some people sense the past and the present and the future. Stalingrad would be an interesting place for them. The war there unlike anywhere else really where everyone reduced to animal like survival instinct and still maintaining some compassion

As I've said before and most don't digest. Army group south had been on the go eighteen months. Had no refit and it's reinforcements not up to scratch. Western history fails to acknowladge they destroyed dozens of Russian army groups in that time. The Russians counter attacked for day one. Sometimes making incursions of hundreds of miles. The red army never collapsed. It kept coming and threw tens of thousands of tanks at this army group . The final straw for the exhausted Germans finding teenage girls on anti tank positions on machine gun posts mortars and the like. In some cases pre pubesent.

About five percent of the Germans who surrendored at Stalingrad were repatriated after the war. Nearly 100 thousand men were captured.

 

[iluvparis]

What do you do if you're a German soldier and come across kids like this? Let them rot or put them out of thier misery?

Baring in mind the Germans were starving and freezing themselves and had no ability to feed or cloth them. At any point artillery could hit the buildings and kill or worse maim the kids to increase thier suffering

The Germans would have seen them just as rats/subhumans given the constant anti-Slavic propaganda they would have been exposed to for the preceding decade.

 

[Proud SJW]

You know....

Folks, when we start posting things like "some people see the past, present and future", we're beyond the realms of history, and moving more into the realm of spirits, ghosts and the paranormal. Or, science fiction, or something.

So can we, sort of, you know, like, control this shit?
Stop ****ing emoting all over me. I find it offensive. That's not history, its ****ing social work. Euw.

 

[Proud SJW]

You see, it's statements like the one I mentioned above, and

...As I've said before and most don't digest. Army group south had been on the go eighteen months. Had no refit and it's reinforcements not up to scratch. Western history fails to acknowladge they destroyed dozens of Russian army groups in that time.

and

...A weak point compared to Wehrmacht units but still more adept than any British or American unit ever was

That make you less of a historian and more an evangelist.
In what way, exactly, does Western History "fail to acknowledge" anything about Stalingrad?
And that second quoted statement is just a stupid thing to say, pure and simple.

I realise I'm probably doing something very silly in asking for your justifications, but... well. It might be a bit of fun seeing what you come up with.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Lol

 

[Proud SJW]

Well. I didn't think those questions were all that hard to answer.
Come on, old son, no need to be nervous. It's only a spotlight.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

You can lead a pig to mud but you can't make it bath in it

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

not only do people not recognise that the Soviet union won that war but the role of Greece and Serbia is hardly ever projected

also most nations were either neutral or on the Germans side

 

[Gavin Excell]

not only do people not recognise that the Soviet union won that war but the role of Greece and Serbia is hardly ever projected

also most nations were either neutral or on the Germans side

I would have agreed with that statement a few years back but i think there's a far greater undertanding now of the Eastern Front and how it bled Germany to death.

The more.interesting "what if" is if a second front wasnt opened up at Normandy whether Stalin's armies would have continued across western europe

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Stalin was a realist

even if he was ruthless

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

I would have agreed with that statement a few years back but i think there's a far greater undertanding now of the Eastern Front and how it bled Germany to death.

The more.interesting "what if" is if a second front wasnt opened up at Normandy whether Stalin's armies would have continued across western europe

That far greater understanding tells us France voted communists in the 30s, but the army and bankers refused to recognise the peoples choice. England supported the right in subversion of democracy.

Stalin was intending on liberating France. He had to go through Germany first. Germans wanted socialism but not communism, so were in the way.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Stalin was a realist

even if he was ruthless

Indeed he was a realist

Purged the army in late 1930s but had no shame bringing back those officers from the cold (at least those who weren’t executed) when he realised he needed their acumen

 

[Gavin Excell]

That far greater understanding tells us France voted communists in the 30s, but the army and bankers refused to recognise the peoples choice. England supported the right in subversion of democracy.

Stalin was intending on liberating France. He had to go through Germany first. Germans wanted socialism but not communism, so were in the way.

Churchill was wise though to Stalin. You’d think if it wasn’t June 1944, the western front would have been opened later that year when Germany was collapsing. I guess though this may have resulted in a stand off with the Red Army assuming they carved their way across Germany to France

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Indeed he was a realist

Purged the army in late 1930s but had no shame bringing back those officers from the cold (at least those who weren’t executed) when he realised he needed their acumen

brought back religion for the war on Nazis knowing people would fought for something greater than communism and atheism alone

realist

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

That far greater understanding tells us France voted communists in the 30s, but the army and bankers refused to recognise the peoples choice. England supported the right in subversion of democracy.

Stalin was intending on liberating France. He had to go through Germany first. Germans wanted socialism but not communism, so were in the way.

Stalin is from the other side of the world

he would play the waiting game

old world is patient
New World isn't

 

[Gavin Excell]

brought back religion for the war on Nazis knowing people would fought for something greater than communism and atheism alone

realist

Excellent example. I had forgotten that.

Realist one way of describing him

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Churchill was wise though to Stalin. You’d think if it wasn’t June 1944, the western front would have been opened later that year when Germany was collapsing. I guess though this may have resulted in a stand off with the Red Army assuming they carved their way across Germany to France

If you want, you can go through official records and see that the second front was planned for 1943, with three times the divisions that landed in 44. You can see that after stalingrad and the subsequent battle where the Russians just held on, those plans for a 43 invasion of Normandy, were put back a year and the mobilisation of America slowed down.

They knew (after stalingrad) Germany simply didn't have the logistics to overrun Russia,they let the Russians and Germans kill themselves.

A 43 invasion wouldn't of been so bad. German defenses were not great on the french coast. Once the Germans stopped thier offensive after stalingrad, they were able to put more recourses into defense.

Those 270 Divisions planned to hit France in 43, were green, casualties would of been on Eastern front levels, so would of been the destruction of the battle grounds. But we would of prevailed and the Germans beat earlier. Have a look at the resting Germans in 43 in France, they were spent. They rested by building and planning defenses. Basically the only units worth anything in France in 43 were ones that had just took on whole Russian armies, the rest nothing but militia and prison gangs.

 

[Boomerfan99]

America also manafactured britian to her knees. Made her sign everything over america wanted and pay remuneration until 2006.


There will always be Yankee bases in blighty. Crime rates are always highest around American bases. Britian was always a Target of Russian nukes thanks to Americans.

Britian committed some horrible attocities around the world trying to get around the noose America held at her neck

Why are crime rates high around American bases?

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Why are crime rates high around American bases?

Mainly aarmy and marines. Naval not quite as bad.. The army and marines go to ghettos to recruit teenagers. These teenagers and young men and women, locked up together training and shit for long periods, then go out and get on the piss and those hormones flow. They're charged cause they want pussy. They think cause they're us soldiers, thier shit don't stink. Thier behavior demonstrates that.

 

[Boomerfan99]

Mainly aarmy and marines. Naval not quite as bad.. The army and marines go to ghettos to recruit teenagers. These teenagers and young men and women, locked up together training and shit for long periods, then go out and get on the piss and those hormones flow. They're charged cause they want pussy. They think cause they're us soldiers, thier shit don't stink. Thier behavior demonstrates that.

Cheers

I have a mate who has been in the Aus army for close to 30 years and is now a major. I asked him once for the propensity of AJs to get in all in brawls with other members of public. He said when you have gone to war with a group of people and are protecting each other's lives, it's very hard to turn that off in civilian life. So if one army guy had an argument with someone else, his mates will back him up regardless.

 

[Boomerfan99]

I have been watching the WW2 docs on Netflix. The Soviets remind me of the Japanese, in their never give up or surrender attitude. They will keep allowing troops to die to save face. Differs from the attitude of Americans or Brits (and maybe Germans).

 

[Power Raid]

Mainly aarmy and marines. Naval not quite as bad.. The army and marines go to ghettos to recruit teenagers. These teenagers and young men and women, locked up together training and shit for long periods, then go out and get on the piss and those hormones flow. They're charged cause they want pussy. They think cause they're us soldiers, thier shit don't stink. Thier behavior demonstrates that.

add to that roids and other drugs

not to mention where bases are located are generally not the best of locations either in terms of local populous