Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only

[Alite]

Best deal ever, although truthfully would love to see a Mark Williams in our forward line again! Great hands, brilliant set shot, played above his height. That mark he took in the wet against Essendon was brilliant, Dodo must have been fist pumping when he thought he had turned him!

I recon we have already have a Mark Williams- type by the name of Matt “Federer” Walker.
Aside: could his goal celebration be a mock tennis serve?!

 

[Nugett]

I recon we have already have a Mark Williams- type by the name of Matt “Federer” Walker.
Aside: could his goal celebration be a mock tennis serve?!

Looking forward to seeing him play in the next couple of years

 

[Holy Rioli]

Parish will be at the Lions next year.

 

[Topiary]

Hi Topiary , is it your understanding that drafting Anderson, is a priority for us , if possible ?

One strategy that I hear is in play, is perhaps trade up (if necessary) two first round picks (2019&2020) to get as high as possible in this draft, take two players or one like a Noah and perhaps a high second after we spend our second on Finn Maguiness. Try and grab Cogs as FA, and perhaps a Thompson as a FA. Somehow trade for a Patton.

This is only one of a couple of speculative strategies around Cogs. He is the main play. Of course, if he stays, we have to consider other options with one of our first rounders or if, as has been suggested we are forced into trading for him.

But I do hear clearly, the debate is a balance to trying to get some quality youth with topping up for a 2021/22 crack.

Key position acquisitions are equally vital, but it is highly, highly unusual to get dividend immediately from drafted KP’s. They take time, where as, you can usually get an earlier return from young drafted mids. Noah is going to be a very, very good player. Hence, my view, we are likely to continue to trade or FA KP’s.

When a List needs so much work, there is lots of competing strategy and priority.

But you also must remember, quality List builds take at least three draft/trade periods. For some campaigns much much longer.

It is all very, very fluid as you would expect.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

For those playing at home it might be worth reiterating that “fluid” means that things change and the flow or direction takes another shape.

I know that in previous years we’ve had lots of posters in these threads who cannot understand this sort of thing and try to hold posters like Topiary to account for things that have been posted when scenarios have clearly changed (see the Shiel conversations last year from numerous people who had good intel that he wanted Hawthorn, but once GWS made it clear that they would not back down on 2xfirsts over the course of the first 48 hours of trade week, our subsequent decision was to move on to other options).

So please remember that Tops shares this stuff, but things can and will change and there will be many irons in the fire.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

IF we can somehow jag Noah Anderson and Finn this year I would be super optimistic for the future. Have a gut feel that that COGS will stay at GWS, hope I’m wrong ...

 

[Bugs1977]

Yeah I suppose it will depend on what the recruiting team think of him as to whether he becomes a target..
I think if he seemed like he was cruising - suggests that he could be homesick, feeling lethargic in Queensland and looking to get back to Victoria in the off season.. it also doesn’t help when the team is playing poorly..

A change of environment and mindset might be what it takes to see him regain some of that aggression around the footy you were looking for.. and at least he has some size unlike JOR

The other thing to take into account about his game last week was that it was his first senior game for the year. Expecting him to come in at the top level and dominate is just plain ridiculous. If you want to assess him then watch him play rather than look at the stats after the game.

 

[Bugs1977]

Yeah I suppose it will depend on what the recruiting team think of him as to whether he becomes a target..
I think if he seemed like he was cruising - suggests that he could be homesick, feeling lethargic in Queensland and looking to get back to Victoria in the off season.. it also doesn’t help when the team is playing poorly..

A change of environment and mindset might be what it takes to see him regain some of that aggression around the footy you were looking for.. and at least he has some size unlike JOR

Also in regards to JOR his career was never the same after his repeated soft tissue injuries. His speed is what made him a top prospect and his body was obviously just made for the rigorous of top flight footy which was a shame cause he’d be bloody handy right about now if he wasn’t built like Mr Glass.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

IF we can somehow jag Noah Anderson and Finn this year I would be super optimistic for the future. Have a gut feel that that COGS will stay at GWS, hope I’m wrong ...

God I hope your gut feel about Cogs is wrong also.

 

[Topiary]

For those playing at home it might be worth reiterating that “fluid” means that things change and the flow or direction takes another shape.

I know that in previous years we’ve had lots of posters in these threads who cannot understand this sort of thing and try to hold posters like Topiary to account for things that have been posted when scenarios have clearly changed (see the Shiel conversations last year from numerous people who had good intel that he wanted Hawthorn, but once GWS made it clear that they would not back down on 2xfirsts over the course of the first 48 hours of trade week, our subsequent decision was to move on to other options).

So please remember that Tops shares this stuff, but things can and will change and there will be many irons in the fire.

Sage words my friend. Thank you.

 

[tige19]

If you want a ready made midfielder then Brayden Sier would be a good fit. Can’t break into the Pies strong midfield.

100% this is one bloke I’d be throwing the kitchen sink at

 

[tige19]

Ross Smith said that Noah Anderson is the best junior he’s ever seen, level above Sam Walsh.. if that’s true then I can’t see how we could possibly trade up to get him, the kid is an obvious freak.

 

[Topiary]

Ross Smith said that Noah Anderson is the best junior he’s ever seen, level above Sam Walsh.. if that’s true then I can’t see how we could possibly trade up to get him, the kid is an obvious freak.

Finn Maguiness while not possessing Noah’s next level ability to personally influence a game, from reports out of quality junior sources, “is on a steep rise of continuos improvement”. “Is developing or gives every indication he will develop a body, that will have top line AFL impact”.

 

[cryptor]

Ross Smith said that Noah Anderson is the best junior he’s ever seen, level above Sam Walsh.. if that’s true then I can’t see how we could possibly trade up to get him, the kid is an obvious freak.

If we keep stringing these losses together then we won't need to trade up.

 

[burner1]

Topiary - why now are we potentially looking for quality youth in the draft? To me it would have made more sense in the last few years (instead of trading so aggressively for JOM and wingard) and then now look to top up our gaps with trades and FAs around a core of 20-23 year olds. Any youth drafted now will barely be ready in 21/22 (and by 22/23 most of our senior core will be gone) Strategy was always flawed and only now the club appears aware of it.

 

[perrdan09]

Topiary - why now are we potentially looking for quality youth in the draft? To me it would have made more sense in the last few years (instead of trading so aggressively for JOM and wingard) and then now look to top up our gaps with trades and FAs around a core of 20-23 year olds. Any youth drafted now will barely be ready in 21/22 (and by 22/23 most of our senior core will be gone) Strategy was always flawed and only now the club appears aware of it.

Yeah i totally agree. I much prefer to use our first round pick in a trade to bring in proven AFL players in that 23-25 year old mark.. Like JOM and TM.... Still have years to go but you skip those development years and in a way reduce the level of unknown if they will become players that can contribute at the highest level..Scrim looks to be another good example of that, and it's why i don't mind the idea of Brodie being a target.
This age bracket would also fit in with the premiership targets in the near future.

The one exception to that is our father son pick this year who sounds like a real prospect.

Just my opinion.

 

[Nugett]

Parish will be at the Lions next year.

What did the lions do to deserve that?

 

[tige19]

Topiary - why now are we potentially looking for quality youth in the draft? To me it would have made more sense in the last few years (instead of trading so aggressively for JOM and wingard) and then now look to top up our gaps with trades and FAs around a core of 20-23 year olds. Any youth drafted now will barely be ready in 21/22 (and by 22/23 most of our senior core will be gone) Strategy was always flawed and only now the club appears aware of it.

Geelong use the exact strategy we use, they constantly pick up players 24-28 to fill holes and make good decisions with their draft picks.. that footy club don’t look like going anywhere soon, and save for injuries we’d be at least 4-1 than the 2-3 we find ourselves in.

I think we will be there in September, lower end of the 8.

 

[Brishawk]

Yeah i totally agree. I much prefer to use our first round pick in a trade to bring in proven AFL players in that 23-25 year old mark.. Like JOM and TM.... Still have years to go but you skip those development years and in a way reduce the level of unknown if they will become players that can contribute at the highest level..Scrim looks to be another good example of that, and it's why i don't mind the idea of Brodie being a target.
This age bracket would also fit in with the premiership targets in the near future.

The one exception to that is our father son pick this year who sounds like a real prospect.

Just my opinion.

Good teams bring on young players faster and more sustainably than bottom teams. Experience is a great teacher but experienced players are even better. They are central to how clarko coaches. The 2004 and 2005 drafts were the stuff of dreams but virtually no one else has been successful with a full blow draft raid. Many of the 2008 premiership team were already on the list in 2005 and it was the 2001-2003 cohort that lead us up the ladder along with buddy, Lewis and roughy.

 

[Milkshaker]

Geelong use the exact strategy we use, they constantly pick up players 24-28 to fill holes and make good decisions with their draft picks.. that footy club don’t look like going anywhere soon, and save for injuries we’d be at least 4-1 than the 2-3 we find ourselves in.

I think we will be there in September, lower end of the 8.

The Cats are very similar to us in the way they operate. The added bonus for them was the paydirt they hit with father sons. If a handful of our 80's kids had turned out a la Hawkins, Ablett and co we would have won half a dozen.

 

[bumsonseats]

What has suffered with our strategy is a loss of depth. This wasn’t so much a problem when we had the likes of Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis etc. but our depth is a bit thin at the moment.

We have to use our first round pick in the draft at least every 4 years. If we are going to have an off year, may as well bring in some quality youth to build sustained success.

 

[burner1]

I disagree that cats are same as us - other than trading for Dangerfield (a steal) and some rucks ages ago they have used the draft (specially the first two rounds) far more heavily than us in recent years.

They are also a few more years advanced in rebuild, but are a genuine chance this year and appear arguably better placed to deal with retirements of Selwood, Taylor, Ablett and Hawkins than we are with pending retirements of rough, Frawley, puopolo, hendo, big boy, Smith and stratts over the next few years.

 

[Bugs1977]

Geelong use the exact strategy we use, they constantly pick up players 24-28 to fill holes and make good decisions with their draft picks.. that footy club don’t look like going anywhere soon, and save for injuries we’d be at least 4-1 than the 2-3 we find ourselves in.

I think we will be there in September, lower end of the 8.

Totally agree with this post. Landing Coniglio would be similar to them acquiring Dangerfield. Get that one cog in the machine (pardon the pun or not) and then everything else changes dramatically. What KPF wouldn’t be tripping over themselves to come to the Hawks to get the silver service a Tom / JOM / Cogs midfield would be delivering up forward.

Add guys like Brodie on the cheap without giving up too much and our midfield depth is strengthened significantly. You’d also think with an addition like Cogs that Cousins also falls back in the pack to being depth unless he can unseat Howe who has shown he is little more versatile atm. Hopefully the free agent gods are good to us this time around but if not all is not lost with contingency plans to kick in.

 

[TylerDurden]

Totally agree with this post. Landing Coniglio would be similar to them acquiring Dangerfield. Get that one cog in the machine (pardon the pun or not) and then everything else changes dramatically. What KPF wouldn’t be tripping over themselves to come to the Hawks to get the silver service a Tom / JOM / Cogs midfield would be delivering up forward.

Add guys like Brodie on the cheap without giving up too much and our midfield depth is strengthened significantly. You’d also think with an addition like Cogs that Cousins also falls back in the pack to being depth unless he can unseat Howe who has shown he is little more versatile atm. Hopefully the free agent gods are good to us this time around but if not all is not lost with contingency plans to kick in.

Spot on. An absolute game changer for us.

 

[Bugs1977]

The Cats are very similar to us in the way they operate. The added bonus for them was the paydirt they hit with father sons. If a handful of our 80's kids had turned out a la Hawkins, Ablett and co we would have won half a dozen.

Yeah your so right about our FS history. I know there’s no point beating a dead horse but could you just imagine if we were able to add Anderson / Maginness. The early retirement of Cyril also didn’t help our issues. If we were able to add Wingard along side Cyril then our forward line would’ve been ridiculous.