Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Beatnicked]

It's not factual data when sometimes you count only the days between 2 dates, others are calculated to include one of the exact days only & some use both days & the days between them so you can make the numbers fit your theory.

One of your very last posts of 242 days between BREs birthday & something else is so far off its ridiculous. Cant recall exactly what events you said but it was so obviously wrong when I read it that I bothered to check what it really was, 123 days? Anyway ... in my opinion you're only fooling yourself. If it doesn't line up you change the goal posts so it does.

I don't want to debate this as it send this thread off onto an unnecessary tangent and advise you start your own thread if you want to carry on.

One birthday that often isn't mentioned is that Jane was 22 when she died and not 23 like many have reported because she hadn't had her 23rd birthday yet.

And 242 from 365 is 123.

The days between dates are also dates an example is 123. that is 3 May and 2 people disappeared on that day in 2010. One of them is Iveta Mitchell. hmm I see her son was asked to provide DNA recently.
I am not deliberately manipulating dates to suit anything. What I am doing is pointing out relevance of certain dates that the accused seems to have considered.

His pattern calculations are not set by an indeterminable date sting. It is a matter of crunching dates that are specific to alleged prior offences and events to reveal his processes.

By the way the 242 relevance was to a question I asked as to whether the defence acting on behalf of the accused could have had input on his behalf regarding the date this week's court matter as it occurred on 24 April 238 anniversary days after the start of the sex offenders programme in 1990. 238 from 365 is 127. The Hollywood Hospital attack occurred on 7 May 1990 which is day 127.

No manipulation just straight calculations.

 

[Beatnicked]

And they are testing mitochondrial DNA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

 

[Kurve]

Here's a couple of screen shots taken from several 1990's Telecom Australia TV commercials of Telecom workers in various rolls wearing uniforms suited to job position.

Bright orange and yellow high visibility vests, bright orange overalls, white protective telecom logo'd helmets and khaki shirts and shorts feature through out.

The fast motion and swish pan camera movements and shots, plus the age of the adds made it difficult to capture clear pics so they're not the best quality but they do give the general idea of what was being worn back then.

In regards to the possibility of names being embroidered or printed on the uniform shirts from what I can see, the overalls and khaki shirts do appear to have a white rectangular customised telecom logo embroidered badge/patch on them.
In the first image attached, taken from a 1995 telecom Australia tv commercial (pretty sure this actor is in character of an installation technician) you can see the logo patch/badge on the right above pocket and what looks like a photo ID card on the left of his khaki shirt.


View attachment 661897View attachment 661898

Remaining screen shots can all be found on YouTube.
View attachment 661903View attachment 661905View attachment 661906View attachment 661904View attachment 661901

Stellar find Ms Bliss and year perfect, 1995. Not only can we see what they wore but perfectly portrays the image Telstra promoted. Trusty, like family.

It might be devastating.

 

[BFew]

From today's Post Newspaper
https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/27042019.pdf

"It's been obtained from a Telstra employee, who worked during a period of the 1990's " .... "It's clothing that was utilised by technicians at the time"

The quotes from Ms Barbagallo suggest that the Telstra employee only worked for Telstra for part of the 1990's.

I would not be surprised if it was an ex-Telstra employee that used to travel in the same Telstra work vehicle as the accused, either just too or from work, or on work jobs.

It is possibly not the accused's "clothing".
Maybe "clothing" from the person travelling in the accused's car with him.

 

[petedavo]

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.
Sometimes, upon a first offence, a Magistrate can convict and sentence someone, but also declare the conviction as Spent if the Magistrate is convinced that not doing so will cause the person a greater detriment than the actual sentence. eg, loss of a job

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Kurve]

.

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.

Spent convictions remain part of your criminal history and can be considered when dealing with a bail application or sentencing you for a new offence. Spent convictions are considered when you apply for a Working with Children Check and will need to be declared.

When do spent convictions need to be declared?
You will need to declare a spent conviction if you are applying for jobs in the police, armed forces, schools or when making an application to hold a firearm. However, this list is not exhaustive, and you will need to speak to a lawyer to obtain the full list.

https://www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/spending-serious-convictions/

 

[BFew]

Telstra commercial (1995) - The future: starring the Telstra navy blue peak cap

 

[Girlnextdoor]

You don't have to be an expert to crunch dates and discover relevance.

There is a case in the UK that was solved by relevance to dates that was discovered in a cold case review. I think It more likely the subject of forensic psychology and psychiatry experts that would see the relevance of the accused's thought processes and patterns and a relevant diagnosis of psychopathy and not insanity of the accused.

Perhaps you should do some factual discoveries and calculations yourself instead of making irrelevant vacuous comments.

Edit to add. The UK case offenders were extradited from Australia.

BTW it's not a matter of being smarter than anyone or more intelligent. It is about studying minutae detail and having the ability to see connections. Police investigators follow procedures that are set out and at times all of their training and experience cannot crack a case. Not one investigator works on a complete case. They work a case in sections. Investigators sitting side by side may be looking at totally different bits of an investigation. Sometimes it is something extraordinary that helps put a puzzle together.

Just thought I'd add this BN as I've been watching a BBC series about FEMALE code breakers of Bletchley Park, fascinating. There were also many women in USA who were also used to trace code patterns. Women are from Venus, so they say, we THINK differently!

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-women-codebreakers-wwii-helped-win-war-180965058/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Bletchley_Park

 

[Kurve]

A piece of clothing had been recently obtained and provided to the ChemCentre to examine and analyse, the court heard.

"It's clothing that was utilised by technicians at the time"

Findings from the examination are in a preliminary report, which was provided to the court.

Ms Barbagello confirmed the defence wanted to compare the fibres from this clothing with fibres found among other materials.

She was unable to say whether disclosure could be completed by mid to late June, promoting Justice hall to ask how the information had only just come to light.

Mr Edwards lawyer, Paul Yovich said the preliminary report about the clothing only identified the subject matter and defence experts would need eight to 12 weeks to consider the full report once it was disclosed to the court.

I wonder if BRE could have given his shirt (Telstra clothing item) away to someone else. "Here you take this, I've put on weight and it's too small."

The guy he gave the shirt to has been a nervous wreck since Bradley was caught. What if Bradley was wearing this shirt the night he killed one of the girls? What if there's DNA on it and Bradley denies he gave it to me?

Although one might think after all this time said item of clothing would have gone through the wash a few times.

 

[Beatnicked]

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.
Sometimes, upon a first offence, a Magistrate can convict and sentence someone, but also declare the conviction as Spent if the Magistrate is convinced that not doing so will cause the person a greater detriment than the actual sentence. eg, loss of a job

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Exactly and the accused or anyone else with the same circumstance would pass a security or police clearance test. Not worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[Beatnicked]

I wonder if BRE could have given his shirt (Telstra clothing item) away to someone else. "Here you take this, I've put on weight and it's too small."

The guy he gave the shirt to has been a nervous wreck since Bradley was caught. What if Bradley was wearing this shirt the night he killed one of the girls? What if there's DNA on it and Bradley denies he gave it to me?

Although one might think after all this time said item of clothing would have gone through the wash a few times.

What if Bradley had used a work colleagues clothing? hmmmm

 

[BFew]

I wonder if BRE could have given hi
Although one might think after all this time said item of clothing would have gone through the wash a few times.

Hence headgear or shoes are prime suspects.

 

[Kurve]

Has anyone considered the use of the telstra pits as part of the “blitz attack”?
BRE could interfere with the public payphone causing the girls to venture further away from the crowd to find a working phone. He then utilises the Telstra pits to hide and wait for them to walk past, either grabbing them or causing them to fall into the pit?

Way back in this thread somewhere it was suggested he may have herded the girls to the perimeter of the Claremont Quarter and into his preferred payphone by disabling those within. We might expect investigators to have checked that hypothesis by looking at the closer payphones for inteference but given their record can't safely make the assumption that they did.

EDIT: In the least got Telstra to check the other payphones and get back to them with a report. Even though hindsight is great, this seems so obvious. I wonder where that report is and what it says.

 

[Beatnicked]

Hence headgear or shoes are prime suspects.

Would either be classified as clothing?

 

[Beatnicked]

I wonder if BRE could have given his shirt (Telstra clothing item) away to someone else. "Here you take this, I've put on weight and it's too small."

The guy he gave the shirt to has been a nervous wreck since Bradley was caught. What if Bradley was wearing this shirt the night he killed one of the girls? What if there's DNA on it and Bradley denies he gave it to me?

Although one might think after all this time said item of clothing would have gone through the wash a few times.

I think it's fibres not biological they are testing for. 40 plus fibres connected to Jane. They were discovered during the Schramm review in 2004. Misplaced previously during Pathwest move.

 

[GreyCrow]

It's not pathetic numbers crap. It's factual data that cannot be cast aside. If you and others cannot understand or comprehend how the accused may have used dates to calculate his 'horrendous game plan' to include every detail. The facts cannot be ignored. The fact that the disposal site degrees of Jane and Ciara add up to Ciara's birthdate cannot be ignored.

The fact that the birthdate of the accused and all three Claremont victims are connected to the 1st victim's birthdate cannot be ignored as the facts reveal the abductions were not opportunistic and shows the accused likely knew intimate details of each victim prior to their alleged abductions.

The night each young lady was abducted was not their 1st night attending the Claremont or Cottesloe venues. Note both Sarah and Jane were at the OBH in Cottesloe. The accused is alleged to have mentioned Cottesloe to one of the Telstra living witnesses and there are witnesses that place a Telstra vehicle cruising the streets adjacent to the OBH in 1996/1997 period.


It should be kept in mind Sarah lived in South Perth and Ciara actually lived in South Perth prior to her departure overseas in the 1st quarter of 1996. Ciara shared the flat with a female friend.

Theory

 

[Kurve]

t's not pathetic numbers crap. It's factual data that cannot be cast aside. If you and others cannot understand or comprehend how the accused may have used dates to calculate his 'horrendous game plan' to include every detail. The facts cannot be ignored. The fact that the disposal site degrees of Jane and Ciara add up to Ciara's birthdate cannot be ignored.

He's not that into the planning imo Beat. He forgot he had to be somewhere the night Ciara was taken and didn't show up until the next day with an easily checked bogus excuse, no alibi. He's not even half as smart as I'd thought he probably was.

 

[Kurve]

Disagreement is fine but please remember to play the ball not the man as per the rules of engagement.

Thank you.

Refresher of said rules : https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-murders-discussion-edwards-trial-updates.1194825/

 

[Beatnicked]

Theory

Based in actual facts. birthdate is fact degrees are fact.

 

[tapdancingbear]

Has anyone considered the use of the telstra pits as part of the “blitz attack”?
BRE could interfere with the public payphone causing the girls to venture further away from the crowd to find a working phone. He then utilises the Telstra pits to hide and wait for them to walk past, either grabbing them or causing them to fall into the pit?

I considered the pits being used , after his arrest , I was more along the lines of ones that may have been out service/ no longer used … if there were any … they are concrete bunkers that would be good for hiding something you did not want found
But you raise an excellent point , the accused would not even have to hide in them , as long as he was in uniform he would be invisible because he should be there

 

[tapdancingbear]

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.
Sometimes, upon a first offence, a Magistrate can convict and sentence someone, but also declare the conviction as Spent if the Magistrate is convinced that not doing so will cause the person a greater detriment than the actual sentence. eg, loss of a job

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Ten years have to pass after a crime before it can be a spent conviction … example , The Hollywood charge would be on his record until 2000 … and then he would have to apply for it to be a spent conviction

 

[Tundrawolf]

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.
Sometimes, upon a first offence, a Magistrate can convict and sentence someone, but also declare the conviction as Spent if the Magistrate is convinced that not doing so will cause the person a greater detriment than the actual sentence. eg, loss of a job

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

There is no way a conviction of that nature would be declared Spent.

 

[GreyCrow]

There is no way a conviction of that nature would be declared Spent.

Yes it would . Based on the time it occurred and the charge on the sheet

https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy-law/other-legislation/criminal-records

The Commonwealth Spent Convictions Scheme (the Scheme) allows an individual to not disclose certain criminal convictions after a sufficient period of good behaviour, and also prohibits unauthorised disclosure and use of this information.

Changes only from 2014
https://www.oaic.gov.au/individuals...monwealth-spent-convictions-scheme#exclusions


It is only recently changes have been made so that convictions of a sexual nature have been added to the long term listing. As an example this from 2012 highlighted that there were holes still within the checks

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...375655418?sv=e5afb8a532f20979e5b1ccb239595b61

CONVICTED criminals, including several murderers, rapists, fraudsters and a child abuser, are dodging police checks by changing their names after leaving prison.
Police have not been notified of the name changes, rendering criminal history checks useless and allowing past crimes to go undetected.

Since 2008, 36 of 50 convicted criminals have been granted permission to change their names

 

[Tundrawolf]

Yes it would . Based on the time it occurred and the charge on the sheet

https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy-law/other-legislation/criminal-records

The Commonwealth Spent Convictions Scheme (the Scheme) allows an individual to not disclose certain criminal convictions after a sufficient period of good behaviour, and also prohibits unauthorised disclosure and use of this information.

Changes only from 2014
https://www.oaic.gov.au/individuals...monwealth-spent-convictions-scheme#exclusions


It is only recently changes have been made so that convictions of a sexual nature have been added to the long term listing. As an example this from 2012 highlighted that there were holes still within the checks

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...375655418?sv=e5afb8a532f20979e5b1ccb239595b61

CONVICTED criminals, including several murderers, rapists, fraudsters and a child abuser, are dodging police checks by changing their names after leaving prison.
Police have not been notified of the name changes, rendering criminal history checks useless and allowing past crimes to go undetected.

Since 2008, 36 of 50 convicted criminals have been granted permission to change their names

Am I missing something?

Why have you included a Commonwealth link?

No lawyer would be bold (or foolish) enough to have the gall to ask for one for such an offence. The police would almost certainly object to even if that application was made 10 years later.

 

[tapdancingbear]

Yes it would . Based on the time it occurred and the charge on the sheet

https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy-law/other-legislation/criminal-records

The Commonwealth Spent Convictions Scheme (the Scheme) allows an individual to not disclose certain criminal convictions after a sufficient period of good behaviour, and also prohibits unauthorised disclosure and use of this information.

Changes only from 2014
https://www.oaic.gov.au/individuals...monwealth-spent-convictions-scheme#exclusions


It is only recently changes have been made so that convictions of a sexual nature have been added to the long term listing. As an example this from 2012 highlighted that there were holes still within the checks

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...375655418?sv=e5afb8a532f20979e5b1ccb239595b61

CONVICTED criminals, including several murderers, rapists, fraudsters and a child abuser, are dodging police checks by changing their names after leaving prison.
Police have not been notified of the name changes, rendering criminal history checks useless and allowing past crimes to go undetected.

Since 2008, 36 of 50 convicted criminals have been granted permission to change their names

Just in relation to the Convicted criminals getting passports etc
There was a woman that had been linked to the CSK crimes before the arrest of the accused , she was released from prison after serving 5 years prison plus one year confined rehab … I think the total sentence was 12 years , but with remissions blah blah blah
She was convicted on shooting , robbery , drug dealing charges all related to heroin

Two months after her release she was holidaying in Thailand , then the Netherlands , England … How did she get a passport after serving over a total of 13 years in Australian prisons
Simple , she was born in England , applied under her fathers surname that she had never used because of family separation , got a Euro passport that was clean , legal .
Came back into Australia with a brand new identity and a passport to prove it , no record … its that simple