Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[ExitStrategy]

I dispute the notion that these girls voluntarily caught a ride with a telecom worker because he was a “trusted public servant”.

There is a social class structure (whether it sits well with the general public or not) which is often referred to as the “western suburbs bubble”. As gross as it seems many boys/young men in that area will only date girls from specific postcodes. Ive experienced it as public school “outsider” from the eastern suburbs and now on the opposite end as a mother living and socialising within “the bubble”.

I feel it was much more likely he would be seen as a working class tradie than a “trusted public servant” by these girls. Which leads me to think that area was targetted for specific reasons:
1. The area was busy and gave some annonymity to the attacker
2. The socio-economic bubble that exists in the western suburbs, leading the attacker to assume they weren’t as “street smart” as the women frequenting other busy areas like Northbridge
3. A sense of rejection or exclusion felt by the attacker based on his own economic/educational background in comparison to the “old boys” who went to the private schools
4. The level of authority sought and obtained within the little athletics community later in life

The forensic profiling of the accused is going to be a facinating read

 

[GreyCrow]

If it was part of your sentence then it was mandatory and if you didn't do it you would be in breach and hauled back in for re sentencing

Was it part of the sentence?

 

[tapdancingbear]

I dispute the notion that these girls voluntarily caught a ride with a telecom worker because he was a “trusted public servant”.

There is a social class structure (whether it sits well with the general public or not) which is often referred to as the “western suburbs bubble”. As gross as it seems many boys/young men in that area will only date girls from specific postcodes. Ive experienced it as public school “outsider” from the eastern suburbs and now on the opposite end as a mother living and socialising within “the bubble”.

I feel it was much more likely he would be seen as a working class tradie than a “trusted public servant” by these girls. Which leads me to think that area was targetted for specific reasons:
1. The area was busy and gave some annonymity to the attacker
2. The socio-economic bubble that exists in the western suburbs, leading the attacker to assume they weren’t as “street smart” as the women frequenting other busy areas like Northbridge
3. A sense of rejection or exclusion felt by the attacker based on his own economic/educational background in comparison to the “old boys” who went to the private schools
4. The level of authority sought and obtained within the little athletics community later in life

The forensic profiling of the accused is going to be a facinating read

I think the area was used for one reason only , easy access and exit , Fremantle and Northbridge had to many one way streets and to many people on the streets

 

[GreyCrow]

In regards to the ' item " clothing ?? utilised by Telstra Technicians that has been the cause of so much recent discussion I think hats , safety helmets , gloves etc may be ruled out. It has to be something of value , something you would keep in a cupboard shed or locker for twenty years and not throw out.
A jacket, coveralls, a heavy winter greatcoat..... some sort of memento maybe not even issued by or pilfered from Telstra...maybe from one of the major company they contracted to....
Still not game to have a stab at it.....

I think the jacket or winter coat is a fair guess, based on the below weather a jacket makes more sense

Fibres consistent with coming from the Telecom car Mr Edwards was using at the time were found in Ms Rimmer and Ms Glennon's hair, the court was also told.

Though June 9 1996 was high of 20 min 17 according to this. http://members.iinet.net.au/~jacob/1996data.html is that jacket weather for Perthites?

14th March 1997 was high of 30 low of 18 http://members.iinet.net.au/~jacob/1997data.html

 

[petedavo]

Ten years have to pass after a crime before it can be a spent conviction … example , The Hollywood charge would be on his record until 2000 … and then he would have to apply for it to be a spent conviction

Not necessarily. A conviction can be declared Spent at the time of sentencing by the Magistrate as well if the circumstances warrant it.

"How do I apply to have a conviction spent?

If you are in court for an offence, you may be able to ask the court to make a Spent Conviction Order when you are being sentenced.

You can also apply to have old convictions declared spent after enough time has passed."

https://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/find...cords-and-spent-convictions/spent-convictions




Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[tapdancingbear]

Not necessarily. A conviction can be declared Spent at the time of sentencing by the Magistrate as well if the circumstances warrant it.

"How do I apply to have a conviction spent?

If you are in court for an offence, you may be able to ask the court to make a Spent Conviction Order when you are being sentenced.

You can also apply to have old convictions declared spent after enough time has passed."

https://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/find...cords-and-spent-convictions/spent-convictions




Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

I cannot see it for an assault charge , but you may be correct

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

Was it part of the sentence?

Also contained in the more than 70 pages of judgment were more facts behind the State’s case that Mr Edwards was the man who abducted and murdered Sarah Spiers, Ciara Glennon and Jane Rimmer.

Defence barrister Paul Yovich.Picture: Steve Ferrier
They included the revelation the now 50-year-old was placed on a sex offender treatment program for nearly a year after his conviction in 1990 for an attack on a lone, vulnerable woman at Hollywood hospital.

Mr Edwards was convicted of a charge of common assault after he admitted approaching the 40-year-old social worker from behind, placing a piece of material over her nose and mouth and dragging her backward towards a toilet.

After a struggle, the woman broke free and a hospital security guard detained Mr Edwards.

Three weeks later, he was sentenced to two years probation.

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremo...ears-before-claremont-killings-ng-b881140548z

 

[GreyCrow]

Also contained in the more than 70 pages of judgment were more facts behind the State’s case that Mr Edwards was the man who abducted and murdered Sarah Spiers, Ciara Glennon and Jane Rimmer.

Defence barrister Paul Yovich.Picture: Steve Ferrier
They included the revelation the now 50-year-old was placed on a sex offender treatment program for nearly a year after his conviction in 1990 for an attack on a lone, vulnerable woman at Hollywood hospital.

Mr Edwards was convicted of a charge of common assault after he admitted approaching the 40-year-old social worker from behind, placing a piece of material over her nose and mouth and dragging her backward towards a toilet.

After a struggle, the woman broke free and a hospital security guard detained Mr Edwards.

Three weeks later, he was sentenced to two years probation.

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremo...ears-before-claremont-killings-ng-b881140548z

Thats from a reporter. I dont mean to be stubborn but was it part of his sentencing?

 

[petedavo]

I cannot see it for an assault charge , but you may be correct

First offence. (As far as the Magistrate knew). Common assault is usually a minor charge, and I know one former work colleague at Central Law Courts that got such a common assault conviction declared spent at time time that he has sentenced prior to his redeployment from State Print to where I was then working in the later half of the 1990's.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[tapdancingbear]

First offence. (As far as the Magistrate knew). Common assault is usually a minor charge, and I know one former work colleague at Central Law Courts that got such a common assault conviction declared spent at time time that he has sentenced prior to his redeployment from State Print to where I was then working in the later half of the 1990's.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Ok , I can accept that , do the offenders program and its a spent conviction ... makes sense where a lot of other ideas around this have not

 

[Kurve]

First offence. (As far as the Magistrate knew). Common assault is usually a minor charge, and I know one former work colleague at Central Law Courts that got such a common assault conviction declared spent at time time that he has sentenced prior to his redeployment from State Print to where I was then working in the later half of the 1990's.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Possible to have a conviction declared Spent PRIOR to completion of probation and fulfilling associated obligations like a sex offenders program?

 

[Kurve]

Thats from a reporter. I dont mean to be stubborn but was it part of his sentencing?

I think it was Crow, remember there was a bit of a gap between the time he plead guilty and sentencing while the judge waited for the pre-sentencing report? He had to see a psychologist. We figured he might have told him/her something and the recommendation went across ... 'uh oh ... this might not have been just a common assault.'

Or saw a juvenile record?

We discussed he may have done a deal to plead guilty to a lesser charge.

 

[GreyCrow]

I think it was Crow, remember there was a bit of a gap between the time he plead guilty and sentencing while the judge waited for the pre-sentencing report? He had to see a psychologist. We figured he might have told him/her something and the recommendation went across ... 'uh oh ... this might not have been just a common assault.'

Or saw a juvenile record?

We discussed he may have done a deal to plead guilty to a lesser charge.

Is 3 weeks enough?

It may well be so , I just find it difficult to reconcile the charge and the attendance of the program. Its obvious a deal was worked out. I just wonder if part of that deal was voluntary admission into the program and not anything official? Happy to be wrong.

 

[tapdancingbear]

Is 3 weeks enough?

It may well be so , I just find it difficult to reconcile the charge and the attendance of the program. Its obvious a deal was worked out. I just wonder if part of that deal was voluntary admission into the program and not anything official? Happy to be wrong.

That's what struck me , that he was in court 3 weeks after being charged , something strange there ... his guilty plea only occurs when he attends court , not before

 

[Kurve]

Is 3 weeks enough?

It may well be so , I just find it difficult to reconcile the charge and the attendance of the program. Its obvious a deal was worked out. I just wonder if part of that deal was voluntary admission into the program and not anything official? Happy to be wrong.

Not his first offense imo, I just can't see it. Maybe his first conviction. He was totally out of control through the Huntingdale prowler series, breaking into houses and attacking women in their homes, ratting through their drawers and after he was caught even going back for another go at it.

I could be wrong, we haven't heard anything about him coming under attention then but wtaf ... really did nobody know who it was? I think they did. And then it just like magic ... stopped.

 

[Kurve]

That's what struck me , that he was in court 3 weeks after being charged , something strange there ... his guilty plea only occurs when he attends court , not before

But the deal to plead guilty can be arranged prior? There's been rumours floating around someone of influence within the company was helping him out and specifically to cover up what had happened so he kept his job.

Carmel isn't frivolous with her speech, she's said more than once "... and he kept his job at Telstra".

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

After a person is charged they are bailed or held in custody. They appear in the magistrates court within 2 days. After having the charge/charges read out they are asked how they plead. They can ask for time to get legal representation or further legal representation or plead guilty and be given a sentencing date. Because there is no trial, witnesses or evidence presented the sentencing hearing is short and it can be slotted in the court lists easily.

I can't reconcile the sentence with the seriousness of this crime maybe it was decided with a hand shake

 

[tapdancingbear]

After a person is charged they are bailed or held in custody. They appear in the magistrates court within 2 days. After having the charge/charges read out they are asked how they plead. They can ask for time to get legal representation or further legal representation or plead guilty and be given a sentencing date. Because there is no trial, witnesses or evidence presented the sentencing hearing is short and it can be slotted in the court lists easily.

I can't reconcile the sentence with the seriousness of this crime maybe it was decided with a hand shake

It does not work that way if you are on bail , there is no way you are in court in 2 days , you can wait months and the longer the better , less chance of jail

Most bail is conscious bail , no money involved you just say you will turn up when required , if you have a job, permanent address you get it most times ... unless you have been really naughty or skipped bail in the past , on parole probation etc.

Im not saying this happened in the accused case but this was a typical scenario , you get charged for the Maximum offence , you say drop it to the lesser one i plead guilty ... its a done deal , you go home and wait for a trial date ... no lawyers involved , no need to involve them , your pleading guilty and the police are not pushing for serious punishment

Another scenario is the time you get caught , if its near a shift change your lucky , everyone wants to go home , the police offer the lower charge for a guilty plea to save a lot of paper work and get to the pub

The police do not want to be tied up in court , they hate it as much as the crims , so deals are done all the time

 

[Badge666]

But the deal to plead guilty can be arranged prior? There's been rumours floating around someone of influence within the company was helping him out and specifically to cover up what had happened so he kept his job.

Carmel isn't frivolous with her speech, she's said more than once "... and he kept his job at Telstra".

With these public revelations about Telstras former employee reportedly keeping his job after trying to stuff a piece of cloth into the mouth of a woman and abduct her AT WORK you would think Telstra Chiefs would issue some sort of statement briefly acknowledging it or denying that it is true ;
However only absolute silence so far.
And possibly for good reason. The implications for an iNationally iconic brand if they are found to have allowed an employee to keep his job after an attempted rape during working hours , and then by way of thanks , that employee has in subsequent years used his company provided cars and work gear to commit a series of murders and brutal rapes....... it is a mind boggling ,nightmare scenario for Telstra.
I have been formally emailing the Telstra Public Relations and Human Resources requesting as a shareholder for them to address these allegations .
Not one reply yet.

 

[Kurve]

I have been formally emailing the Telstra Public Relations and Human Resources requesting as a shareholder for them to address these allegations .
Not one reply yet.

You might need to cc the government in Badge, at the time of the HH attack it was Telecom and sold off through the 90s in Liberal Howard's firesale.

 

[Badge666]

You might need to cc the government in Badge, at the time of the HH attack it was Telecom and sold off through the 90s in Liberal Howard's firesale.

Thank you ,but the last time I tried to telephone John Howard numerous times several years ago, and give him some advice on how to run the country, the only thanks I got was a visit from ASIO and the Federal Police at midnight, who cared me away and put me in the lockup for a week.
Im joking . Sort of.
I am sure that when a company like Telecom is taken over by whomsoever they sign documents that they are inheriting any of the legal repercussions of the previous Companys actions or lack thereof. There is even a Latin term for it , it is "de riguer" in the big business world of takeovers and re -badging brands. So I'm sure Telstra is liable for Telecoms actions in the past.

 

[Melsy]

Unique how? If they can place this guy at the scenes of his alleged crimes (even years later) then that would be crucial evidence. Murderers returning to the scene of their crimes is not something that happens very often (regardless of the saying) but they're still going to have to go through all the evidence to find out if he has.

Someone would drive past Jane at least, on a regular basis.

Ever considered that the 1990 conviction, might of been declared a Spent Conviction?
Spent Convictions do not have to be declared, and don't affect Police Clearances.
Sometimes, upon a first offence, a Magistrate can convict and sentence someone, but also declare the conviction as Spent if the Magistrate is convinced that not doing so will cause the person a greater detriment than the actual sentence. eg, loss of a job

Imagine attacking a woman, dragging her to toilets while stashing an object in her mouth (only escaping by kicking free) with zip ties in the back pocket and ending up with a spent conviction.

No doubt there is going to be some serious scrutiny to how we came to this and all those involved.

Claremont CIB again?

 

[Melsy]

Thank you ,but the last time I tried to telephone John Howard numerous times several years ago, and give him some advice on how to run the country, the only thanks I got was a visit from ASIO and the Federal Police at midnight, who cared me away and put me in the lockup for a week.
Im joking . Sort of.
I am sure that when a company like Telecom is taken over by whomsoever they sign documents that they are inheriting any of the legal repercussions of the previous Companys actions or lack thereof. There is even a Latin term for it , it is "de riguer" in the big business world of takeovers and re -badging brands. So I'm sure Telstra is liable for Telecoms actions in the past.

As far as I'm aware, Telstra was half owned by government and may still be part owner today.

No doubt the on call money and double bubble is a little more thin on the ground.

 

[Melsy]

Maybe forensics have some Telstra bluie fibres from Janes site?

 

[Kurve]

Thank you ,but the last time I tried to telephone John Howard numerous times several years ago, and give him some advice on how to run the country, the only thanks I got was a visit from ASIO and the Federal Police at midnight, who cared me away and put me in the lockup for a week.

Clearly threatened by your genius Badge