News Review into racism at Collingwood

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Billys Back said:
So let me ask this. The only way you can dress up like Muhammad Ali is to paint your face black? It’s the only way for people to identify you as Muhammad Ali? Because there are no other great boxers in history that are black???

All I’m saying is that it isn’t necessary when it is deeply offensive to black people and they have said it is deeply offerings to them. Whether you think your intentions are good is meaningless when you know doing just that is reprehensible to black people and your ‘hero’.

As I said, typical white privilege when comments come out that you don’t mean anything by it without considering the position and feelings of those it effects.

History is history. But today we should be able to have compassion for those who see it as representing oppression and discrimination.

Like there is no way I would wear a swastika as an Australian out of respect for what the symbol represents for the Jewish community. Yes the swastika’s meaning isn’t offensive, however, what it came to represent and the deep impact it has had the people means out of respect I would not wear it. Again it’s respect and compassion for those deeply affected, regardless of how honourable my intentions may be. Bottom line, it just doesn’t need to be done.

Anyway, that’s enough from me on this topic. Back to the footy.
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I agree on not trying to cause offence, but I don't see it as being as straight forward as you, as we're also teaching people what to be hurt and offended by - as well as teaching what not to do. Are we going to teach society forever that they should be hurt and offended by blackface, the way I see it that will increase the hurt. To me, we should try to teach people to look for the meaning and intention of the comment or action itself, not Al Jolson's meaning or the meaning of the confederates - the meaning of the producer of the message. Personally, I think empathy and understanding isn't the one way street that it's currently depicted as, and if you are being offended because a kid pays tribute to Nicnat by putting make up on his skin, your pain is real, sad, and justifiable, but you need to look at the kid's perspective too- is he referencing Al Jolson or a history of discrimination - of course he isn't. And if you demand he stops, you're the one imposing your meaning onto the innocent action of someone else. You're the one not showing understanding and empathy. Whether black or white, you're the one ensuring we remain obsessed with the colour of someone's skin.
 
Link added.
Andrew Krakouer says he will never forget the racial slur that cut him to his core in the Collingwood change rooms.
Standing in front of his locker at the club’s Holden Centre headquarters midway through the 2012 season, the star Magpies forward overheard three teammates sharing a brazen joke about Aboriginals.

“I’ve got no interest in mentioning any names, but there was a group talking and I heard the word ‘Boong’ come up,” Krakouer says.


“Straight away there were a number of emotions running through me. I was anxious, I was angry, I was annoyed — and in disbelief that I had just heard that in my own workplace and it was my own teammates who were making the racial slurs.

“They were having a bit of a laugh and I walked over and I said, ‘Would you guys mind telling me what is so funny?’

“They tried to sort of laugh it off and say, ‘It’s nothing, mate, don’t worry about it’, and I said, ‘No, actually, I just heard you guys say the word ‘Boong’ and you’re laughing about it. I want to know what’s so funny’.”

Krakouer says two of the three Collingwood players immediately understood the tone in his voice and walked away. The third player remained.

“I insisted that I was told what was said,” Krakouer says.

“He told me that the word ‘Boong’ came from back in the day when white Australians used to run over Aboriginal people in their car and that ‘Boong’ was the sound the car made when it hit them.

“I was absolutely disgusted in that person’s response and the fact that it was funny to him and that it was a joke.

“These guys were my teammates and I had to play footy with them. It was a moment where I really thought to myself, ‘what am I doing here?’.

“I really wondered if this was where I should be working, because I felt that it was an unsafe place. It was a lot to process, and there are only a handful of people that I have ever told that story to …”


Krakouer, 38, has tossed and turned for weeks about whether to share one of his experiences about systemic racism at Australia’s most famous football club.

But the bravery of his former teammate Heritier Lumumba, and more recently Leon Davis, in coming forward to speak “the truth” about the goings on at Collingwood (and some snide remarks he’s heard about there being no “actual evidence” of racism at the club) inspired him to step up.

Last week, Davis revealed how Collingwood teammates had filled out a player profile in his name during the 2000 AFL season that contained answers with hurtful racial “stereotypes and undertones”.

The profile was left on his bag in the Collingwood change rooms.

“Lumumba and Leon are not alone,” Krakouer says.

“I stand with them 110 per cent. They are my brothers and I really feel it is important for me to share my story, too, but also to get it off my chest.

“It needs to be said. Racism, I believe, is a public health issue. It scars people, it changes people. It’s not just words, it’s systemic and really cuts deep. Enough is enough. We just want equitable opportunities to be healthy and thrive; people should get it by now. We’re just sick of it.”

Krakouer, who was drafted by the Pies in October 2010 after serving time in prison for assault, says he has since confided in a senior club official about his own change room incident, but said nothing at the time out of fear of being driven out.

“I didn’t really want to rock the boat and wasn’t confident there was a process that would address this incident in the right manner,” he says.

“I really struggled with it.”

The son of North Melbourne champion Jim Krakouer, Andrew played 137 games for Richmond and Collingwood between 2001 and 2013.

He says he has been deeply saddened by Collingwood’s failure, since the handing down of the ‘Do Better’ report last month, to properly address its findings.

“I thought the footy club could have done it a lot better,” he says.

“I was pretty disappointed in how it all panned out. There were some excuses made and I still don’t think they really understand or acknowledge what has really happened, and the trauma that it has caused.”

Krakouer says Davis is someone Collingwood “really should be engaging with”.

“I have spoken publicly in the past and I’ve initiated meetings with the football club privately. I’ve offered assistance and I’ve even asked to be part of the next phase in creating policies and procedures,” he says.

“Unfortunately, they have never taken me up on my offer — at no stage have I ever been asked to be involved. I want to help. I want to be part of the solution.”


In May 2013, Krakouer says he was pressured into playing a game at the Gabba after then Collingwood president Eddie McGuire directed his infamous King Kong gibe at Sydney star Adam Goodes.

It’s a decision he still regrets.

“I let myself down by going against what I knew was the right thing to do. I chose to look after the footy club,” he says.

“I regret doing that and not standing up for Lumumba (who had confronted McGuire over his comments about Goodes), but I guess I felt that if I did, I might be ostracised.

“Looking back, that was the beginning of the end for me at Collingwood.”

Asked if Collingwood is a racist club, Krakouer takes time to answer.

“I think we have to move beyond deciding if we call Collingwood a racist club or not.

“The fact is that Collingwood, just like Australia, has a long and well-documented history of racism that still needs to be addressed.

“Without facing it, it cannot move forward. It is what it is.

“There are absolutely great people that have been and are employed by the footy club and teammates that I played with as well, people I really get along with.

“But the report shows the reasons why there have been some terrible moments in the club’s history, and we can’t ignore it.

“The systemic racism is the responsibility of the club’s leadership, so it needs strong leadership to deal with it.

“It’s been well documented that Eddie has had his incidents over time, and I’ve had the opportunity to address those issues with Eddie in great depth. Unfortunately that’s all it was; a conversation and no processes put in place to address those issues.

“Sadly, the senior managers of the football club lacked any desire to address the racism issue in a proper manner.”

Krakouer’s friend and long-time manager Matthew Gray says the racism Krakouer experienced was compounded “by how things have been managed”.

He says there is “a real frustration and disappointment” about the club’s decision to appoint a 12-person anti-racism panel without players who experienced it at the club.

“Andrew has come out at least a half a dozen times over the last four years validating what Heritier Lumumba has said, saying that he wants to be a part of the solution and that he wants to help the football club improve in this area. Yet they have never properly engaged with him for his thoughts or to be part of a working group,” Gray says.

“I think that is the biggest kick in the guts about this whole thing and I can hear it in Andy’s voice right now.

“I know for a fact that speaking out right now is incredibly uncomfortable for him. There is no benefit for him in doing this – it’s for the benefit of the next generation.

“With the greatest respect to those on the newly formed panel, and there are some great people on the panel, but they were not involved at the club during the time in question, yet they are the ones who are going to make the decision on what they are going to do better.”

Krakouer has repeatedly offered his services to the club and says he feels “disregarded” at being overlooked.

“I just didn’t feel valued at all,” he says.

The AFL recently appointed league commissioner Professor Helen Milroy as co-chair of its National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Advisory Council (joining Paul Briggs), while Hawthorn champion Shaun Burgoyne has also joined as a board member.

But the Krakouer name has been at the forefront in fighting racism in footy since the 1980s.

Born into the dynasty, Andrew wants to make sure future generations don’t endure the same experiences.

“Dad and uncle Phil were absolute stars. They never had a culturally safe society or workplace. But their resilience, strength and courage to play the standard of football they did was amazing and something myself and our family are extremely proud of,” he says.

“I feel that I have a responsibility to not only continue my family legacy, but to continue standing up and calling out racism.

“I began speaking on the public circuit prior to COVID and the response I receive when talking to corporates and community clubs on the issue of racism and my experiences has been overwhelmingly positive. It inspires me to continue pushing forward with it and it really gets through to people,” Krakouer says.

Following his experiences at Collingwood, Krakouer says he lost complete interest in football, but it was through the indigenous media community where he has rediscovered his love for the game.

“I hated the game I loved. I had no interest in watching it or talking about it. That went on for a number of years,” Krakouer says.

“Then I was given an opportunity to be part of the Marngrook Footy Show in 2018, and it was my involvement in that which rekindled the flame for me.”

Despite the scars, Krakouer says he’s pleased his old mate Lumumba has been vindicated after a shameful and long-running smear campaign.

“Unfortunately, Lumumba has been discredited by a number of people suggesting that those things didn’t happen,” he says.

“People just didn’t believe him. I remember The Project (on Channel 10), they said something about me being ‘a rare person’ (when he came out to back Lumumba). I’m not quite sure what that actually meant. It was absolutely disgraceful the way Lumumba was treated on that show.


“But I have been inspired by how strong and empowering Lumumba has been just to keep turning up and standing up and conducting himself in such a measured and articulate manner.

“We need to make sure the right changes are made, so that our next generation doesn’t experience racism and the trauma associated with it and so they can work and live in a culturally safe environment.”
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legendstatus said:
Yep keep rolling them out so it keeps the HS clickbait happy


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That's all you can say after reading the post above yours? We have a lot to be ashamed of as a club & it's time we did something about rectifying it & apologising for it.
 
Aucklander said:
Link added.
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Wow again. When did that come out. FFS someone at Collingwood ring Krak, apologise for ignoring his offers of help and get him involved.

Not hard surely
 
That Krakouer story with the Boong joke said in his company is way worse than the Lumumba chimp nickname imo

Lumumba encouraged the use of the chimp nickname... so you can see how others thought it was okay if he consented to it

But that joke told in the changerooms with Krakouer present is something else. Sickening that someone then told him the joke and told him to shrug it off
 
Markfs said:
View attachment 1067337

I still have my version from 1908. Unfortunately, not the original british version. This one was printed in the US and "adjusted" for the local audience. Some people might find it interesting that Sambo was a little Indian boy...at least in the original story
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He was a "south indian" boy, as opposed to West Indian, not from India and clearly black.
 
Krak has to be sought out and his input must be part of the "solution". NOW is the time to start showing that we're truly sorry for what we've all done to these people over the years. I'm sorry for what our club and all Australians have done to our indigenous brothers and sisters since we got here (invaded Australia) and I'd love to think that something will be done (finally) to improve our relationship in my lifetime. It will take courage and it will take leadership and honesty.
For the part I've played in it, I'm sorry.
It can't be tolerated any longer. Racism has no place in my life or this country any longer. It's not a joke, it's a life sentence.
To Krak, and Leon and H and Sharrod and all the other indigenous players that have graced our club...I'm sorry.
 
sr36 said:
I agree on not trying to cause offence, but I don't see it as being as straight forward as you, as we're also teaching people what to be hurt and offended by - as well as teaching what not to do. Are we going to teach society forever that they should be hurt and offended by blackface, the way I see it that will increase the hurt. To me, we should try to teach people to look for the meaning and intention of the comment or action itself, not Al Jolson's meaning or the meaning of the confederates - the meaning of the producer of the message. Personally, I think empathy and understanding isn't the one way street that it's currently depicted as, and if you are being offended because a kid pays tribute to Nicnat by putting make up on his skin, your pain is real, sad, and justifiable, but you need to look at the kid's perspective too- is he referencing Al Jolson or a history of discrimination - of course he isn't. And if you demand he stops, you're the one imposing your meaning onto the innocent action of someone else. You're the one not showing understanding and empathy. Whether black or white, you're the one ensuring we remain obsessed with the colour of someone's skin.
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so we have the kid who obviously doesnt know that painting his face might offend his favourite black sportsman.... and then we have his parents who obviously also seem to not know that painting his/her child's face might cause offence.....and the facebook friends of course... maybe a few relatives....

so they all love the black guy but they dont really care how he might feel about things... or not know that black face might offend

"we should try to teach people to look for the meaning and intention of the comment or action itself"....so we should teach blacks to look for the meaning but not teach little kids and their parents to look for a meaning

it all seems strange to me.
 

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Markfs said:
so we have the kid who obviously doesnt know that painting his face might offend his favourite black sportsman.... and then we have his parents who obviously also seem to not know that painting his/her child's face might cause offence.....and the facebook friends of course... maybe a few relatives....

so they all love the black guy but they dont really care how he might feel about things... or not know that black face might offend

"we should try to teach people to look for the meaning and intention of the comment or action itself"....so we should teach blacks to look for the meaning but not teach little kids and their parents to look for a meaning

it all seems strange to me.
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It seems strange because you're looking for a point of truth. One true meaning that everyone has to believe. There isn't one true meaning. There's the meaning to the kid, the parent, you, Niknat, I, etc. They all vary. We don't get inclusion by imposing the one meaning on the whole diverse multicultural population. That's colonialism. That's what caused the problem in the first place. We get inclusion by trying to understand each others meanings and not in the one way direction that is currently being advocated for.
 
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sr36 said:
It seems strange because you're looking for a point of truth. One true meaning that everyone has to believe. There isn't one true meaning. There's the meaning to the kid, the parent, you, Niknat, I, etc. They all vary. We don't get inclusion by imposing the one meaning on the whole diverse multicultural population. That's colonialism. That's what caused the problem in the first place.
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no it's strange that they love him but they're not really concerned about his life. It's like a michael jordan "becomes white and apolitical, divorced from his blackness" kind of thing. Its like saying you love dylan alcott and then going along to a fancy dress in a wheel chair and making fun of it...because its more than changing the skin colour, it's identifying with a tradition of making fun of black people.

look, i'm not saying that people's love of sportspeople isn't selective. These days it can be there one minute and gone the next, so saying that you love a particular player doesnt really mean that much. The fault is probably with Nic Nat thinking that he really means something to fans more than being a footballer.

i dont have a problem with the kid. I think I'd be happy to give the mother a miss, considering she knew that something was wrong but decided to push through, because her only concern was her little boy.
 
Markfs said:
no it's strange that they love him but they're not really concerned about his life. It's like a michael jordan "becomes white and apolitical, divorced from his blackness" kind of thing. Its like saying you love dylan alcott and then going along to a fancy dress in a wheel chair and making fun of it...because its more than changing the skin colour, it's identifying with a tradition of making fun of black people.

look, i'm not saying that people's love of sportspeople isn't selective. These days it can be there one minute and gone the next, so saying that you love a particular player doesnt really mean that much. The fault is probably with Nic Nat thinking that he really means something to fans more than being a footballer.

i dont have a problem with the kid. I think I'd be happy to give the mother a miss, considering she knew that something was wrong but decided to push through, because her only concern was her little boy.
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I don't think the mum was saying she loves him. Her comments make it pretty clear that she chose to make a political statement. I'm more concerned about her parenting to wave her kid as a banner for her political cause and make him take a few of the blows that belong to her.

But, personally, I think we've got it all wrong to continue to make it about blackface. The issue with blackface wasn't the mmake up. It was the dominant power ridiculing the minority. It was probably even more demeaning when we moved from white actors to hiring black or Chinese actors to ridicule themselves, continue the one dimensional stereotypes to make us laugh at their lesserdom.

And yes who am I to say what people shouldn't be offended by, but we're not just teaching kids to not be offensive. Who are you to teach what to be offended by, because that's what's happening here. We're teaching the rules about what is offensive. The little black kids who see it done without ridicule aren't going to be offended. They're taught, they learn, they're told that blackface is offensive, regardless of the context.

I think we've ****ed it up again. Rather than pointing the finger at the issue - the ridicule. Once again we're pointing the finger at the colour of someone's skin.
 
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sr36 said:
I don't think the mum was saying she loves him. Her comments make it pretty clear that she chose to make a political statement. I'm more concerned about her parenting to wave her kid as a banner for her political cause and make him take a few of the blows that belong to her.

But, personally, I think we've got it all wrong to continue to make it about blackface. The issue with blackface wasn't the mmake up. It was the dominant power ridiculing the minority. It was probably even more demeaning when we moved from white actors to hiring black or Chinese actors to ridicule themselves, continue the one dimensional stereotypes to make us laugh at their lesserdom.

And yes who am I to say what people shouldn't be offended by, but we're not just teaching kids to not be offensive. Who are you to teach what to be offended by, because that's what's happening here. We're teaching the rules about what is offensive. The little black kids who see it done without ridicule aren't going to be offended. They're taught, they learn, they're told that blackface is offensive, regardless of the context.

I think we've f’ed it up again. Rather than pointing the finger at the issue - the ridicule. Once again we're pointing the finger at the colour of someone's skin.
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I think we are in agreement on the “blackface” argument has become a distraction from the real issues that confront Australia and our footy club. Even the lumping of all dark skinned people into a single grouping doesn’t ring right.

If NicNat wants to express solidarity with the African American population that’s his right and should be respected. It’s not for me or any European background population to tell him how he should feel. Or whether indigenous Aussies, Polynesians, Melanesians or African Americans should feel about each other’s experiences


Blackface wasn’t an Australian thing in my mind. I don’t think anyone should do it and that mother didn’t get it but we risk letting the real issues get washed away by PC thoughts.

NicNat even says himself he previously encouraged it until he was educated. He is from a Fijian background which is far removed in many ways from the experience of the African American population. It isn’t a natural point of discrimination in his background.
 
legendstatus said:
Yep keep rolling them out so it keeps the HS clickbait happy


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Smell another lawsuit pending....

The joke was obviously in poor taste, and shouldn't occur ever. Considering it was around 10 years ago, those players you feel are now ex-players, so why not name them, and get a long overdue apology. This is the way to steer towards change.
Also Krak said he lost interest in watching or talking about footy for a number of years, after his time at the Pies, yet he did play for West Perth and the Bassendean Footy clubs after he was let go by the club before joining the Marngrook Footy Show. I'm sure the Pies will be in touch with Krak, and have him involved in some way going forward.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Should this thread be closed? The media use us as supporters to derail our own season year after year. I’m all for debate, but in season I believe it’s time to get behind the team, the administration and focus on winning games. There is nothing to be gained from turning on each other, the club, the players, coaches...saved that for the offseason if you must. Go Pies!
 
magpies42 said:
Should this thread be closed? The media use us as supporters to derail our own season year after year. I’m all for debate, but in season I believe it’s time to get behind the team, the administration and focus on winning games. There is nothing to be gained from turning on each other, the club, the players, coaches...saved that for the offseason if you must. Go Pies!
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I am not sure it should be closed. But it's become a minefield to cross to comment on the issues, particularly in the wake of Davis's and Krakouer's comments. I retain my own views on Lumumba until proven wrong - I don't for instance accept Krakouer's criticism of the Waleed Aly interview. The sooner the football season starts the better as it will distract posters from the side issues that are now the subjects of so much comment.
 
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TheGreatGrundy said:
I am not sure it should be closed. But it's become a minefield to cross to comment on the issues, particularly in the wake of Davis's and Krakouer's comments. I retain my own views on Lumumba until proven wrong - I don't for instance accept Krakouer's criticism of the Waleed Aly interview. The sooner the football season starts the better as it will detract from the side issues that are now the subjects of so much comment.
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Do you think it will detract? They tend to follow us around every year...if not a drug scandal, or an alleged drug scandal then it’s the coaches contract, or players running around the streets naked. We have to stop adding fuel to the fire for these non stories. You click on it they will write it.
 
magpies42 said:
Do you think it will detract? They tend to follow us around every year...if not a drug scandal, or an alleged drug scandal then it’s the coaches contract, or players running around the streets naked. We have to stop adding fuel to the fire for these non stories. You click on it they will write it.
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I should have used 'distract' rather than 'detract'. I was referring to posters rather than the media. When football starts, the issues which have dominated the threads will be overshadowed by threads initiated by the games.
 
Gone Critical said:
Wow again. When did that come out. FFS someone at Collingwood ring Krak, apologise for ignoring his offers of help and get him involved.

Not hard surely
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No, apologise for the treatment he received due to our negligent approach and lack of policies and procedures for dealing with racism and pay damages if deemed appropriate. In terms of help, he can probably help show us how big the issue was, but don't think that having experienced racism necessarily makes him the best candidate for helping to set up procedures systems and a culture that can deal with and mitigate the damage of racist behaviour that has occurred within the club and will probably occur again in the future.
 
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