Preview 2022 Round 3 Carlton vs Hawthorn Sunday April 3rd 1.10PM @ MCG - Team Post #1413

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think we may be taking it for granted that Cerra and Martin are actually WELL ENOUGH to play.

Covid can hit you hard, Hopefully not.

Otherwise simple for mine....


Fogs tried hard and did some good things but Martin has to come in.

Newman for Cerra.....Yeah I know numbers and like for like but there was one moment that sealed it for mine.
Watch the replay . NOT GOOD, Did not put his body on the line .

Yeah Newman was scared to go more than once and a few brain explosions by foot (not the only one there though). First out for stocker when he's back for me.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Problem with those changes is what it does to the balance of the side.

You've essentially gone with Young for OMac and Martin for Fog, both like-for-like-ish. But then the final change is essentially Newman for Cerra. Leaving us short a mainstay small defender in favour of another mid. That necessitates moving Setters or LOB to the back pocket, which we really don't want to be doing.

There's clearly a plan in place, and a team structure to facilitate it. Don't think we'll be getting too creative with the magnet board just to shoe-horn in good players.

Backline is settled.

Weiters and OMac the preferred KPDs, Young as backup.
Gov the preferred third tall, Plowman as backup, maybe Kemp or Parks at a stretch.
Saad and Williams the drive, Boyd and Williamson likely the backup there.
Doc and Newman the small defenders, with Stocker a fair chance of supplanting Newman.

There's a clear back 7 there, and some obvious depth options. You don't want to mess with that by rotating midfielders through for the sake of it.

Fair call - let me correct it

 

[Accidental genius]

Problem with those changes is what it does to the balance of the side.

You've essentially gone with Young for OMac and Martin for Fog, both like-for-like-ish. But then the final change is essentially Newman for Cerra. Leaving us short a mainstay small defender in favour of another mid. That necessitates moving Setters or LOB to the back pocket, which we really don't want to be doing.

There's clearly a plan in place, and a team structure to facilitate it. Don't think we'll be getting too creative with the magnet board just to shoe-horn in good players.

Backline is settled.

Weiters and OMac the preferred KPDs, Young as backup.
Gov the preferred third tall, Plowman as backup, maybe Kemp or Parks at a stretch.
Saad and Williams the drive, Boyd and Williamson likely the backup there.
Doc and Newman the small defenders, with Stocker a fair chance of supplanting Newman.

There's a clear back 7 there, and some obvious depth options. You don't want to mess with that by rotating midfielders through for the sake of it.

good so far and totally agree with your reasoning.

now tell us who makes way for cerra. this is the tricky bit.

im thinking its going to be at expense of setters or lob.

defintely think lob should stay.

setters was much better so going to be a tuff call if it comes down to this.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Yeah Newman was scared to go more than once and a few brain explosions by foot (not the only one there though). First out for stocker when he's back for me.

Our best defence:
Stocker McDonald Saad
Williams Weitering Docherty with McGovern intercepting/3rd tall.

Can't wait for Stocker's return, another extremely tough and skilful player/defender.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I want to smash them so so bad, like a smashing that we will tell our children about, and they will pass on the story to their children. But realistically I will be happy with a one point win over those bastards.

Like the time we kicked 30.30 (210) against them..that'll do it

 

[Blue__Balls]

good so far and totally agree with your reasoning.

now tell us who makes way for cerra. this is the tricky bit.

im thinking its going to be at expense of setters or lob.

defintely think lob should stay.

setters was much better so going to be a tuff call if it comes down to this.

Yeah, it's tough.

If I had to make the call, I'd be going with Cerra for Fog, and allowing some of Walsh, Kennedy and Cripps to spend a little more time on the half forward flank (and wing for Walsh), and probably cutting Fisher and Setters from their occasional CBA cameos.

The alternative would be to drop one of Setters/LOB and push Walsh out to the wing almost exclusively. Which is definitely an option. Walsh looked well at home in the center square last year, but seeing him in there now alongside Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett and soon Cerra, he's definitely still a bit on the lighter side. Can make it work, but may suit us more to play him wide.

 

[Davey33]

Invisible 2nd half but so was the ball up our end....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

Problem with those changes is what it does to the balance of the side.

You've essentially gone with Young for OMac and Martin for Fog, both like-for-like-ish. But then the final change is essentially Newman for Cerra. Leaving us short a mainstay small defender in favour of another mid. That necessitates moving Setters or LOB to the back pocket, which we really don't want to be doing.

There's clearly a plan in place, and a team structure to facilitate it. Don't think we'll be getting too creative with the magnet board just to shoe-horn in good players.

Backline is settled.

Weiters and OMac the preferred KPDs, Young as backup.
Gov the preferred third tall, Plowman as backup, maybe Kemp or Parks at a stretch.
Saad and Williams the drive, Boyd and Williamson likely the backup there.
Doc and Newman the small defenders, with Stocker a fair chance of supplanting Newman.

There's a clear back 7 there, and some obvious depth options. You don't want to mess with that by rotating midfielders through for the sake of it.

You can drop either Owies or Durdin for Cerra and with so many midfielders u can rest Walsh forward. He has proven very capable before in goal kicking+ good way to work him into better form.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You can drop either Owies or Durdin for Cerra and with so many midfielders u can rest Walsh forward. He has proven very capable before in goal kicking+ good way to work him into better form.

No offense, but I hate that idea.

Fog was playing the high forward role, which is where you want your mids resting (so they can press up and provide the extra number at stoppages). And I really don't want to drop one of our specialist small forwards who are now starting to build some good synergy (with each other and the talls) to replace them with a resting/rotating mid or so Walsh can be parked in a forward pocket.

 

[CJMB]

We've got a pretty clear team structure, so any replacements aren't likely going to involve that changing drastically.

Def: key, key, 3rd, med, small, small
Mid: ruck, inside, inside/def, inside distributor, off wing, def wing
Fwd: key, key, 3rd, med/hhf, small, small
Int: def, mid, fwd, ruck/fwd

Young for McDonald as the 2nd key def is an easy one. Martin for Fogarty is also pretty simple.

Cerra is a little more interesting, but my thought would be one of the wings has to make way and Walsh moves more outside as the off wing. He'll still rotate through that inside distributor role, but spend most of his time in that wing role. Which wing makes way is a tough call for the MC to make; do they keep Setters in the same def role or do you put O'Brien there who's a better runner but has his known deficiencies around contact (although he does appear to be improving)?

Say Walsh does a 1:3 split of his mid & wing time, Cerra the opposite, get Cripps & Kennedy to spend a couple of minutes each quarter up forward and Hewett could do a couple of minutes on a wing, that's pretty much it all spoken for. The other 'full time' wing spends the whole game there and Fish & Martin each get up onto a wing maybe 3-4 mins a quarter too, as a bit of a point of difference. I reckon that's a pretty balanced approach.

Also, the "they can also get Fish & Setters' CBAs" comments are kind of redundant... they've combined for about 2% of our CBAs, it's so insignificant it's an outlier. Probably just Hansen moving the magnets when the Dogs had some midfield ascendency to see if it would change anything.

D: Weitering, Young, McGovern, Docherty, Williams, Saad
M: Pittonet, Cripps, Hewett, Cerra, Walsh, O'Brien/Setterfield
F: McKay, Curnow, Silvagni, Martin, Fisher, Durdin
I: Newman, Kennedy, Owies, De Koning

 

[Blue__Balls]

We've got a pretty clear team structure, so any replacements aren't likely going to involve that changing drastically.

Def: key, key, 3rd, med, small, small
Mid: ruck, inside, inside/def, inside distributor, off wing, def wing
Fwd: key, key, 3rd, med/hhf, small, small
Int: def, mid, fwd, ruck/fwd

Young for McDonald as the 2nd key def is an easy one. Martin for Fogarty is also pretty simple.

Cerra is a little more interesting, but my thought would be one of the wings has to make way and Walsh moves more outside as the off wing. He'll still rotate through that inside distributor role, but spend most of his time in that wing role. Which wing makes way is a tough call for the MC to make; do they keep Setters in the same def role or do you put O'Brien there who's a better runner but has his known deficiencies around contact (although he does appear to be improving)?

Say Walsh does a 1:3 split of his mid & wing time, Cerra the opposite, get Cripps & Kennedy to spend a couple of minutes each quarter up forward and Hewett could do a couple of minutes on a wing, that's pretty much it all spoken for. The other 'full time' wing spends the whole game there and Fish & Martin each get up onto a wing maybe 3-4 mins a quarter too, as a bit of a point of difference. I reckon that's a pretty balanced approach.

Also, the "they can also get Fish & Setters' CBAs" comments are kind of redundant... they've combined for about 2% of our CBAs, it's so insignificant it's an outlier. Probably just Hansen moving the magnets when the Dogs had some midfield ascendency to see if it would change anything.

D: Weitering, Young, McGovern, Docherty, Williams, Saad
M: Pittonet, Cripps, Hewett, Cerra, Walsh, O'Brien/Setterfield
F: McKay, Curnow, Silvagni, Martin, Fisher, Durdin
I: Newman, Kennedy, Owies, De Koning

Certainly coming around to that being the least disruptive, and therefore most likely, scenario.

Flip a coin on LOB/Setters. I'd probably drop Setters first, because at least he can go back to the ressies and get some minutes on-ball. Playing LOB on the wing down there won't do him much good, his areas for improvement are all tied to getting games at the top level.

 

[Kruezing]

I wouldn’t be dropping Setters … he’s playing good football …

 

[Jimmae]

Eight mother****ers quoting me now to say almost exactly the same ****ing thing.

nO PiTToNeT wiLL nOt bE DrOpPeD, iT's UnpOssIbLE

Ins: Cerra Young Martin
Out:McDonald Fogarty Plowman
We owe these bastards a flogging big time…

We'll definitely flog them if we're allowed to play 23 players plus a sub

Anyway, let's reward the more refined arguments instead:

Pittonet isn't flashy mate but you aren't appreciating what he brings to the side and around the centre bounce.

He's not pressuring around the stoppages, not accounting for his opponent, not doing anything up forward, and and he's not owning the air against opponents in general play.

I don't care if he's doing OK against a defensive ruck (Nankervis) and a tall midfielder (English) at a small portion of ruck contests, when we're not winning the ball out of there well enough. It's a meaningless statistic in that context.

That's not good enough for someone that is demanding 70+ % of ruck time, all while TDK tries to play key forward while built up like a ruckman. Just let TDK roam, he's far more suited to a modern ruck role than what Pittonet is producing.

Hopefully after 2 weeks of reduced minutes, he's good to go.

People are over rating Fisher atm - If you see where the opposition finds holes it is in HFF flanks - Fisher and Fogarty got pantsed in Q3/4 neither could go with their opponents. As for Fisher making an impact in his cameo CB attendances - watch again. Owies and Durdin had to make up for lack of run in Fisher and Fogarty on numerous occasions and that took its toll on the structure. In my mind Fisher/Fogarty are about equal over 4Q. Fogarty is a neater footballer - but Fisher is a bigger tease. I'm guessing Voss will give him a very extended run because Philp/Cuningham/Honey are all unavailable like for like substitutes atm - and Kemp is probably considered to be a spare thrid tall at this stage - which si unfortunate in my books.

Midfield missed Cerra's 4 quarter run - big time. Martin's marking and defensive hardness was missed - they are both automatic ins if fit.

Pittonet is improving every week at this stage - TDK was less influential but they will be playing because they compliment each other and both are required players in my book.

I'm concerned about McDonald being out - Weitering trusts him and I think he reinjured his lower back - very early in the game judging by the repeat shanks he delivered - the first thing that goes when you do your lower back is the ability to kick. McDonald's absence really tested the defensive structure.

The good news is 10-day break and a theoretically weaker opponent - this one has to be an opportunity to post a big margin another test of how hungry the players really are - Carlton owes Hawforn quite a few years of pain.

It may well be the case that Young becomes a default IN for his height - but no doubt the Club will be looking at beefing up its KPD stocks.

I agree with most of this bar the TDK/Pittonet take, I just see it as them being too safe just to get a few extra nice tap outs a game. I legitimately think what we lose is worth it for what we gain.

Fisher is not playing like a high half-forward right now, more like a winger that can't break free often, and can't pressure at the stoppage or in open play. Can't pick him just for a couple of good passes a game. He'd be the first player I'd drop in order to bring in Dow or Martin.

Fogarty on the other hand had some sustained periods of pressure, as well as being able to disrupt aerial contests. Links up better than Fisher most of the time because he can accelerate away, and doesn't put it all on himself to unlock the play, more readily looking to draw a player and release a team mate via handball.

2 goal assists, and didn't cook himself much.

That being said, as much as Fisher is still a bit ho-hum at times, like LOB I think he'll benefit from playing this role consistently for most of the year. As you said, he teases. He can do it, just needs to find ways to do it more often/more consistently. Would love to see a few more tackles, because one per game so far is disappointing for a guy whose role is going to be built on a foundation of forward pressure.

The difference is that Fisher has had 2 years worth of football to get it right, and O'Brien has been yoyo-ing since Teague's caretaker games.

 

[dirk pitt]

I think I'd rest Kennedy. Bring in Cerra

 

[Blue and Blue]

Gonna be a ten day argument around Pittonet and a couple of others by the looks of it.

jimmae v the world

 

[CJMB]

I think I'd rest Kennedy. Bring in Cerra

What? Why?

 

[WFGodot]

For all the recent losses if we get a chance this week, smash the living bjesus out of the hawks next week. No mercy, obliterate!
If anything the past decade has taught us, there is zero mercy in the afl.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I think I'd rest Kennedy. Bring in Cerra

Cerra definitely comes in but I’d be willing to bet big it won’t be Kennedy coming out.

 

[F_therest]

good so far and totally agree with your reasoning.

now tell us who makes way for cerra. this is the tricky bit.

im thinking its going to be at expense of setters or lob.

defintely think lob should stay.

setters was much better so going to be a tuff call if it comes down to this.

Martin for Fog.
Cerra for Setterfield.

Martin way more dangerous and better overhead than Fog.

Harsh on Setters who's been solid, but it's a sign of a good team when we have to drop a player who's not even playing badly. Guys like Walsh and Hewett can spend time on the wing. I'd rather Setterfield be replace than a small forward.

 

[forever blue 1]

Cerra definitely comes in but I’d be willing to bet big it won’t be Kennedy coming out.

As a coach you want to see how they all go together as injuries will happen
Never let opportunity pass by

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

But why? Martin bobbed up for a late (and admittedly important) goal against the Tigers last week, but outside of that I'm not sure he did anything to justify being an automatic in to replace someone who is playing well. Durdin and Martin are very different players, and are complementary not comparable. Makes no sense to drop our best young small forward in years, who is clearly entrenched in the 22, just because the KPF's marked everything and starved him of crumbs - to make room for a medium forward who plays tall and goes missing for long patches.

If Martin doesn't replace Fogarty or Fisher, with someone from the midfield making way for Cerra, then I don't see where Martin fits.

Martin will come straight back in as surely as night becomes day.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I think I'd rest Kennedy. Bring in Cerra

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I was thinking the exact same thing. If they actually have Covid and are not just isolating due to contact, then it is absolutely no guarantee they’ll be match fit straight after. This isn’t the forum to debate the severity of Covid, but there’s no denying it affects people differently - regardless of how young/fit they are. Hopefully they are positive but asymptomatic so they can return relatively unscathed.

Neither Cerra nor Martin have any symptoms ie not sick....ie ready to go today bar the iso rules.

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Eight motherf*ers quoting me now to say almost exactly the same ***** thing.

nO PiTToNeT wiLL nOt bE DrOpPeD, iT's UnpOssIbLE


We'll definitely flog them if we're allowed to play 23 players plus a sub

Anyway, let's reward the more refined arguments instead:


He's not pressuring around the stoppages, not accounting for his opponent, not doing anything up forward, and and he's not owning the air against opponents in general play.

I don't care if he's doing OK against a defensive ruck (Nankervis) and a tall midfielder (English) at a small portion of ruck contests, when we're not winning the ball out of there well enough. It's a meaningless statistic in that context.

That's not good enough for someone that is demanding 70+ % of ruck time, all while TDK tries to play key forward while built up like a ruckman. Just let TDK roam, he's far more suited to a modern ruck role than what Pittonet is producing.

Hopefully after 2 weeks of reduced minutes, he's good to go.


I agree with most of this bar the TDK/Pittonet take, I just see it as them being too safe just to get a few extra nice tap outs a game. I legitimately think what we lose is worth it for what we gain.

Fisher is not playing like a high half-forward right now, more like a winger that can't break free often, and can't pressure at the stoppage or in open play. Can't pick him just for a couple of good passes a game. He'd be the first player I'd drop in order to bring in Dow or Martin.

Fogarty on the other hand had some sustained periods of pressure, as well as being able to disrupt aerial contests. Links up better than Fisher most of the time because he can accelerate away, and doesn't put it all on himself to unlock the play, more readily looking to draw a player and release a team mate via handball.

2 goal assists, and didn't cook himself much.


The difference is that Fisher has had 2 years worth of football to get it right, and O'Brien has been yoyo-ing since Teague's caretaker games.

Yeah, I think I'll go by what we are seeing, what the expert commentators are saying and more importantly what Voss and the coaches are saying.
They all seem very happy with his work so far.
Is he Max Gawn, no.
At this very moment he has done well, and no doubt still learning a lot (how many games?)

There were people on here trying to tell us Kennedy wasn't best 22, and would be traded/delisted at the end of the year....can you believe that?
They look really really silly now, not that they would say

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Gonna be a ten day argument around Pittonet and a couple of others by the looks of it.

jimmae v the world

Not a snowflakes chance in hell Pittonet will make way, weird


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Jimmae]

Yeah, I think I'll go by what we are seeing, what the expert commentators are saying and more importantly what Voss and the coaches are saying.
They all seem very happy with his work so far.
Is he Max Gawn, no.
At this very moment he has done well, and no doubt still learning a lot (how many games?)

There were people on here trying to tell us Kennedy wasn't best 22, and would be traded/delisted at the end of the year....can you believe that?
They look really really silly now, not that they would say

If you trust AFL commentators and coaches to make expert and honest commentary, you've not seen enough sport internationally. It's extremely sanitised, and no one calls anyone else for anything - for better and worse - until someone crosses a very distant line that doesn't match up with social accepted standards.

No interest in the opinions of people who grin and boast while actively perpetuating a cess pool, at least in terms of taking it at face value.

You can slap me around with Kennedy as much as you like, my views are easily searchable here and when I make those kinds of statements they're conditional on the player failing to improve their performance. He's since stepped up twice, but we've got some trade decisions to make at the end of this season, some of which we should have made years ago.

If you're going to play strawman here, don't even bother quoting me, just skip straight onto the next tactic of bitching about me without mentioning me by name. Cheers!