List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[carlton_99]

Totally agree with this. I was just being silly

It's a silly time tbh. Quicker Feb 2023 comes around the better

 

[La Dispute]

You think we are going for rebuild number
Ummm

Sorry what rebuild number are we up to ?

The club clearly has some issues with the talent base under 23-24.

We’ve clearly missed on quite a few high end selections and haven’t made many inroads with later picks or rookies either.

Rather than further speculate on the futures of guys like Dow or Stocker who have shown as much pound-for-pound as 1st and 2nd year players like Carroll, Durdin and Motlop we’ve decided to go in a different direction and back in the talent ID and development streams available to us - this is a hallmark of all successful list management teams who find players in all parts of the draft and players are introduced into a system when they are able to be moulded into the players we’d like them to become.

Kemp, Cuningham and Philp get a reprieve due to injury, Kennedy and LOB have already been demoted and the results so far suggest it’s been a successful move in incentivising them to improve as footballers.

If things click we should start contending soon, but we’re not going to get into a genuine flag window if we continue to cross our fingers on players who continually show the same deficiencies and don’t put in the work to amend them.

We’re so used to expecting young players to just kick on, but the reality is so many don’t. Maybe we can partly blame previous coaches and poor development systems, but that’s fast becoming redundant. We want to have the kind of major development wins the Pies and Dockers and Tigers are currently overseeing through their footy programs.

We’d kill to see some young players come in and impact in the same way Young or Chapman or Ginnivan or McCreary have.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I am very surprised re. Fogarty still being on the list and Stocker gone. Must be due to an overload in the half-back position or something else (maybe off-field) that we're unaware of.

Feels like something is up though. Are we having to cut a bit deeper to accommodate Harry's next contract?

[PLAYERCARD]Blake Acres[/PLAYERCARD] is linked but apparently that's only because he's on chicken feed. Cap getting tight.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Or maybe Voss was so upset with his performance against the Pies that he's put a line through his name?

 

[lukep_86]

It's a silly time tbh. Quicker Feb 2023 comes around the better

You ain't seen nothin yet..this place is just getting warmed up

 

[therubbernub]

Richmond are specialist at attracting top end talent, Lynch, Prestia and now Taranto, elite talents all. They’ll be very strong again in 2023.

once they werent, now they are. Swings and roundabouts

 

[Michael Jezz]

Can we just trust Austin and Co. so far they’ve done a good job.

So far…..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

SoS this SoS that. I have said this before, start scrutinising Austin's record

 

[F_therest]

Perhaps SOS thought the club would develop the players endurance over time. Many experts have pointed to our poor development program.

Stocker looked heavy on his return but he had a footy brain & seemed not to panic under pressure (unlike 50%+ of our top 22)!

Basically we recruited too many big midfielders and Hewitt meant he was one down the pecking order if he could build the endurance.

Like BSOS lots of upside for Stocker if he wants it and shows the drive to continue working hard and improve his fitness.

Our potential targets this year aren’t going to take us to the promised land without internal improvement from those already here who haven’t already peaked.

I see this a lot where the write up of a draftee is 'potential to play midfield when he builds his tank' and it just never happens.

Pretty sure building endurance is difficult and some just can't go very far with it.

Would much rather we draft players with naturally strong endurances shown at junior level. Walsh and Andrew Brayshaw are a few examples of players with elite endurance, which enables them to run hard all game and get from contest to contest and have a massive impact on the game.

Sydney have recruited well. They have quite a lot of young players but across the park they are good runners.

 

[F_therest]

SoS this SoS that. I have said this before, start scrutinising Austin's record

Outside overpaying for Williams, Austin's record is fantastic so far.

Hewett, Saad, Cerra and Young are great recruits. All on reasonable contracts. Happy with draft picks like Durdin and Motlop.

 

[bmaurizio]

Outside overpaying for Williams, Austin's record is fantastic so far.

Hewett, Saad, Cerra and Young are great recruits. All on reasonable contracts. Happy with draft picks like Durdin and Motlop.

Agreed Curly Jr has done well it’s a refreshing change let’s see how he performs with p10&28.

 

[carlton_99]

Outside overpaying for Williams, Austin's record is fantastic so far.

Hewett, Saad, Cerra and Young are great recruits. All on reasonable contracts. Happy with draft picks like Durdin and Motlop.

Also picked up what will hopefully be our first success from the mid-season draft in Boyd (trying to manifest this).

 

[Ciccio]

Stocker doesn't respect an opponent nor does he adhere to handing off and or closing down on dangerous space as a defender

Yes, might be due to being a midfielder as a junior, but hasn't worked hard enough on his fitness levels to play as a mid at the next level

Arr0w If this is true, and I'm not doubting your information, then why was he selected to play in the final 2 must win games of the season against Dees and Pies? If he was such a liability then why play him over say Plowman, Kemp or Durdin who were available to play? I am confused by the mix messaging here - hangs his team mates out to dry but lets pick him to play. Makes little sense to me.

Fair to say I am bewildered by this decision, I had him in the range of 15-25 player on our list. Clearly there is more to it, because he has clear footballing attributes but for some reason, the club has decided to part ways. Personally see this as a poor list management decision and poorly handled by the club.

 

[djw1952]

Don’t be ridiculous. As if we wouldn’t have traded Stocker if there was genuine interest.
so what if he goes to North. He’s hardly a game changer.
He may end up on a rookie list somewhere.
He is hardly the difference between us being in the 8 or the top 4 or missing out.

There are certainly others of less value that are still on the list like Fogarty and Owies, boy are they hard at it types that really love crunching the opposition!!! At least Stocker had a red hot go each time he played and it`s the club that tried to turn him in to a defender when he arrived as a mid......not good enough by the club in my book, and why recruit Hayes mid-season only to chop him already....wow, a lot of thought towards the future went into that choice didn`t it Carlton!!!

 

[The Return of the Paf]

The club clearly has some issues with the talent base under 23-24.

We’ve clearly missed on quite a few high end selections and haven’t made many inroads with later picks or rookies either.

Rather than further speculate on the futures of guys like Dow or Stocker who have shown as much pound-for-pound as 1st and 2nd year players like Carroll, Durdin and Motlop we’ve decided to go in a different direction and back in the talent ID and development streams available to us - this is a hallmark of all successful list management teams who find players in all parts of the draft and players are introduced into a system when they are able to be moulded into the players we’d like them to become.

Kemp, Cuningham and Philp get a reprieve due to injury, Kennedy and LOB have already been demoted and the results so far suggest it’s been a successful move in incentivising them to improve as footballers.

If things click we should start contending soon, but we’re not going to get into a genuine flag window if we continue to cross our fingers on players who continually show the same deficiencies and don’t put in the work to amend them.

We’re so used to expecting young players to just kick on, but the reality is so many don’t. Maybe we can partly blame previous coaches and poor development systems, but that’s fast becoming redundant. We want to have the kind of major development wins the Pies and Dockers and Tigers are currently overseeing through their footy programs.

We’d kill to see some young players come in and impact in the same way Young or Chapman or Ginnivan or McCreary have.

That being said, I'm surprised Fogarty has survived this far. Any chance of even further changes depending on how many trades we make? You also talk as if we have convinced Dow into requesting a trade, have I missed something?

 

[Dramoth]

That was 2020 only

They announced it after we delisted Kennedy IIRC...

 

[Saint12]

Shocked to see Liam delisted...I saw a lot of his junior footy and he was a mid field beast that was always going to make AFL. He played at the same club as the Kings and other highly rated juniors, I had Liam at top of the pile. Was he given a chance on the ball at all with you guys?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Shocked to see Liam delisted...I saw a lot of his junior footy and he was a mid field beast that was always going to make AFL. He played at the same club as the Kings and other highly rated juniors, I had Liam at top of the pile. Was he given a chance on the ball at all with you guys?

No

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The picking of midfielders and playing them as forward pockets or back pockets really pisses me off.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

There are certainly others of less value that are still on the list like Fogarty and Owies, boy are they hard at it types that really love crunching the opposition!!! At least Stocker had a red hot go each time he played and it`s the club that tried to turn him in to a defender when he arrived as a mid......not good enough by the club in my book, and why recruit Hayes mid-season only to chop him already....wow, a lot of thought towards the future went into that choice didn`t it Carlton!!!

Agree there, would have rather we drafted Leiu.

 

[djw1952]

Shocked to see Liam delisted...I saw a lot of his junior footy and he was a mid field beast that was always going to make AFL. He played at the same club as the Kings and other highly rated juniors, I had Liam at top of the pile. Was he given a chance on the ball at all with you guys?

No never, and some say he wasn`t fit enough although how they would know that is a puzzle, but people can always find their own smug reasons for something like this happening after the event, but not before!!!

 

[mochacinolatte]

The picking of midfielders and playing them as forward pockets or back pockets really pisses me off.

Motlopand Durdin has more success as small forward compared to all the wanna be midfielders being converted into fwds.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Arr0w If this is true, and I'm not doubting your information, then why was he selected to play in the final 2 must win games of the season against Dees and Pies? If he was such a liability then why play him over say Plowman, Kemp or Durdin who were available to play? I am confused by the mix messaging here - hangs his team mates out to dry but lets pick him to play. Makes little sense to me.

Fair to say I am bewildered by this decision, I had him in the range of 15-25 player on our list. Clearly there is more to it, because he has clear footballing attributes but for some reason, the club has decided to part ways. Personally see this as a poor list management decision and poorly handled by the club.

Plowman was out of form.

Kemp has no form in the vfl.

Durdin plays only kpd.

Stocker obvious choice.

Don't get me wrong, I am as suprise by the delisting.

Also the players listed are contracted besides Durdin (Probably on list for depth). Plowman could of been easily delisted if he hadnt had another year.

Also we got an overpayed Zac Williams to cover for him.

 

[Burgers45]

Stocker won Morrish medal as a midfielder, & never trialed in that position, even in vfl. I realise he has had mental health & fitness concerns, but they could've been overcome. Surprised not at least kept for depth, or put up for trade.

 

[Arr0w]

No never, and some say he wasn`t fit enough although how they would know that is a puzzle, but people can always find their own smug reasons for something like this happening after the event, but not before!!!

You mean, you have never seen his fitness/workrate issues mentioned previously?

 

[Abyss]

Stocker doesn't respect an opponent nor does he adhere to handing off and or closing down on dangerous space as a defender

Yes, might be due to being a midfielder as a junior, but hasn't worked hard enough on his fitness levels to play as a mid at the next level

Id have to disagree from what I saw last 3 vfl games. Maybe the afl games were different...
Saw him many times right on the money with forward 50 entries by the oppo. Sat under the high ball and got monstered by the pack but didnt pull out of the contest.
I also saw him all over the field cleaning up contested ball or delivering up the field.
He (was) my favourite Carlton player, so I have been looking at this lack of tank business. Vossy should know better he had double chins most of his career. Same narrative on Dow, hes not lacking endurance by his body of work. And remembering it was still vfl but Casy, Collingwood and Brisbane had about 15 AFL listed players on field.
Agreed that it may be hard to fit him in our current side position wise.
If I saw a role its in the Daniel Rich mode. Clarkson is probably his best bet, I thought Vossy would have been able to get him going though.
I walked the dogs for 2 1/2 hours this morning and Im still steaming.