USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

What?

You were saying there are no gun laws in USA where this happened. Obviously there is

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Antifa is exactly what it claims to be- Marxist extremists

ANTI-FAscist. The clue is in the name

 

[kranky al]

Hope so. Declare antifa a terrorist organisation for a start

What terrorist acts have they committed?

Be interested in comparing say antifa to us religious groups.

How about for each terrorist act you bring up, I’ll bring some up on the other side of the ledger.

We all await with bated breath.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Barely, there’s been very little media coverage because school shootings in America are just accepted as the norm (and Kirk literally said that in the past, that it’s a cost worth having). Its very minor news, when in actual fact we should be asking the question why is a child’s life worth so much less than Charlie Kirk’s?

On your point about this particular firearm - first of all, no it would still not be as easy to get your hands on this sort of firearm in Australia, NZ, Europe, UK or the rest of the developed world, secondly - you certainly wouldn’t be able to bring a firearm into a University, meanwhile in states such as Utah they allow carrying guns on campus.

Now, this may well be a professional hit, but even so, the facts are gun violence is so much more common in the USA than other western countries that you cannot suggest anything other than a correlation between the 2nd amendment and more gun deaths - that’s a fact.

If your measuring stick on the value on human life is the media, thats on you.

I didnt say it would be easier or as easy to get this firearm in Australia compared to the US. Its not hard to get a cat B licence and obtain a centre fire rifle in Australia. I'm using Victoria as my example. All you're dealing with is time provided you dont have a criminal history or any psych issues. Not to mention the illicit gun market.

The rest of your post is just a strawman. I didnt mention or suggest any of it.

 

[Mofra]

He's talked about suspending civil liberties and imprisoning rivals for a while.

This could be his moment to actually do it.

There are a lot of people in the US who have said for a while that Trump has no intention of letting next years' midterms going ahead.

He's been testing the waters for a while now.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

The sole reason antifa organisations exist is to counter those groups who firmly believe that enthic and/or religious groups outside their own should not enjoy common human rights nor take their place in an equal society.

Antifa exists to counter those who work against a common humanity.

Does that inlcude mass vandalism and looting? Delivering pallets of bricks to rioters?

 

[kranky al]

Antifa is exactly what it claims to be- Marxist extremists

My grandad was antifa. Shit the pieces of shit.

There was quite a lot of antifa from lots of countries in WW2

Very popular it was.

He was a very wealthy man too. Retired at 38. Hardly a Marxist.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

If the shooter can somehow be connected to ANTIFA then Trump will likely use this as his Reichstag Fire decree moment.

Its crazy how history is repeating here.

They've already started using that rhetoric, one right wing commentary even used the very term.

The fact it is histories most well known false-flag seems to be beyond them.

 

[QuietB]

Political assasinations are often a precursor to war. This is bad for everyone. If this was a prominent black Muslim woman like Ilhan Omar it would be just as bad to anyone with any sense. To minimise this shows you are a) losing your humanity
b) ideologically captured and
c) blissfully unaware of the likely consequences

Civil war is frankly the best option right now. The USA is inevitably going to war - some argue it is already happening - this is the 5th or 6th political assisination/attempted assassination since J6.

At least with a civil war;

1. They won't kill anyone else.
2. They won't use nukes

 

[Mofra]

Civil war is frankly the best option right now. The USA is inevitably going to war - some argue it is already happening - this is the 5th or 6th political assisination/attempted assassination since J6.

At least with a civil war;

1. They won't kill anyone else.
2. They won't use nukes

I don't think you can bank on a world where the USA isn't killing foreigners. It just doesn't happen.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Civil war is frankly the best option right now. The USA is inevitably going to war - some argue it is already happening - this is the 5th or 6th political assisination/attempted assassination since J6.

At least with a civil war;

1. They won't kill anyone else.
2. They won't use nukes

I wouldn't count on that.

Plus if MAGA won the civil war they'd very likely invade Canada and Mexico.

 

[bourbons]

people are still going to die and families destroyed.
You are making my point though. You know that people die and are killed because of it and are just too weak to say you are willing to accept their deaths.

Who's too weak to do what now?

Getting a little emotional now mate. In any case allow me to placate you and prove my manly bonafides, yes I accept that alcohol will be responsible for some deaths - if they were responsible for as many as guns in the US I might have to re-think, which is kinda the whole point.

Sorry can’t be bothered looking up stats but I’d be interested to know how many life’s are acceptable to lose for you?

lol, ok let me know when you can, its your story

To answer the question, as many that are currently lost to drunk people

 

[Sir_Loin]

He's talked about suspending civil liberties and imprisoning rivals for a while.

This could be his moment to actually do it.

Lincoln suspended habeaus corpus, no doubt that'll get trotted out if it gets that far

 

[Sir_Loin]

Civil war is frankly the best option right now. The USA is inevitably going to war - some argue it is already happening - this is the 5th or 6th political assisination/attempted assassination since J6.

At least with a civil war;

1. They won't kill anyone else.
2. They won't use nukes

depends who wins

 

[swanny1234]

If your measuring stick on the value on human life is the media, thats on you.

I didnt say it would be easier or as easy to get this firearm in Australia compared to the US. Its not hard to get a cat B licence and obtain a centre fire rifle in Australia. I'm using Victoria as my example. All you're dealing with is time provided you dont have a criminal history or any psych issues. Not to mention the illicit gun market.

The rest of your post is just a strawman. I didnt mention or suggest any of it.

Ok sure, if you know how to actually get a gun it’s not impossible but you still need background checks etc, which you simply don’t need in the USA.

It’s significantly easier for a nut job to get a gun in the USA, do you dispute that?

 

[The Punter]

Civil war is frankly the best option right now. The USA is inevitably going to war - some argue it is already happening - this is the 5th or 6th political assisination/attempted assassination since J6.

At least with a civil war;

1. They won't kill anyone else.
2. They won't use nukes

You mean they won't kill people outside the USA, right? Non-combatants will die without a doubt.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Does that inlcude mass vandalism and looting? Delivering pallets of bricks to rioters?

What are they rioting against though? Without the existence of the Racist Right you could argue that the hardcore agitators would just agitate under a different banner but still - they are against fascism in the here and now.

To my way of thinking the Racist Right is an evil and it needs to be fought.

Government inaction unfortunately means that the streets must speak.

EDIT: Looting is never right.

 

[Malifice]

Lincoln suspended habeaus corpus, no doubt that'll get trotted out if it gets that far

Trump has already been looking into doing the same for months (and is effectively doing it anyway with the deportations).

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

My grandad was antifa. Shit the pieces of shit.

There was quite a lot of antifa from lots of countries in WW2

Very popular it was.

He was a very wealthy man too. Retired at 38. Hardly a Marxist.

Antifa of today is quite different in their ideology.

Your grandad is a hero.

 

[DaTBird187]

FBI reckons they already know who it is.......

and are busy trying to come up with a narrative that suits their agenda.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Their views started to change as the grifters shifted their tack to a much more pro gun, pro religion, pro white supremacy position.
This is probably around the Charlottesville time of Trump's first presidency.

I'm sure it trickled down to your friends at that time, however I believe in America it started earlier. After all, how did Trump get elected in the first place? Sure, there were longstanding issues in the American economy with income and wealth inequality and the offshoring of jobs, but while that explains some of Trump's appeal to swing voters in 2016, promising a solution to those things doesn't fire up the Republican base. Feelings excite them, and returning jobs is nice but not strong enough to explain the devotion showed to Trump.

No, I think the culture war fired up earlier than that, as a backlash against Obama. He of course had some objectionable policies, that people disagreed with, but again that by itself doesn't fire up the Republican base. It's very clear looking back that race was a huge factor in the opposition to Obama. The man basically governed like a moderate conservative but was painted by conservatives as a communist who supported radical Islamic terrorism. This is the basis of many culture wars - scaring voters and then offering them security against their fears.

Why did the fear campaign work? Americans generally fear change proposed by people they don't trust or admire, and their culture implicitly tells them to trust and admire rich people over the other classes, white people over non-white people, and when it comes to leadership, men over women. It is not difficult to get a lot of Americans to be uncomfortable with a black man in a position of power, as their culture has for centuries portrayed black men as a threat. And that discomfort led many to latch on to a great white hope who promised a return to the good old days, or making America great again.

I'm not blaming rich white men solely for this, or even white people in general, as Trump couldn't win elections with that demographic alone. There are plenty of non-white people who have been suckered into inherently trusting or admiring white leaders more, just as there are plenty of poor people suckered into trusting or admiring rich leaders more and women suckered into trusting or admiring male leaders more.

Obama could at least stave off the direct challenges during his term as he was charismatic, reasonably competent and had a squeaky clean personal life. Plus Romney wasn't a great candidate in 2012. But the basic idea of weaponising culture to scare people that Obama was evil built up during his presidency. It eventually spread beyond just race and Obama, into the idea that all Democrats and left of centre people were evil. That's where the grifters really played their part.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Who's too weak to do what now?

Getting a little emotional now mate. In any case allow me to placate you and prove my manly bonafides, yes I accept that alcohol will be responsible for some deaths - if they were responsible for as many as guns in the US I might have to re-think, which is kinda the whole point.


lol, ok let me know when you can, its your story

To answer the question, as many that are currently lost to drunk people

Thank you, I hope people don’t laugh at you if you are murdered by a drunk considering you support people dying for that right.

 

[Malifice]

Antifa of today is quite different in their ideology.

No, theyre not.

 

[Cyg1992]

The word “grifter” is an ideological calling card. We all know it. Only one ideology uses it in the way you did. I know I’m not because I’m triggering to both sides, and even the minor ideologies. And because I consciously examine my internal dialogue all the time.

It's used in people who push hate for pay. It's very accurate.

The guy we're talking about in this very thread literally became a millionaire from it. He had no skills or talents whatsoever. He just regurgitated what his donors wanted him to.

Sadly for him, it ended up costing his life.
He was very young and had plenty of time to turn it all around if he wanted.

His last sentence was quite literally minimising mass shootings in that country. Which is a known lie and misinformation. He was doing it for the coin.
Textbook grifting.

 

[Cyg1992]

Most of the time I have seen it used has also been toward those. I personally have never really considered the word a code word for anything else.

The cookers use it to reference Jews.
Globalist also.

Ironic as their daddy trump is both of those things, in the literal sense.