Certified Legendary Thread Covid, Life, UFOs, Food, & Wordle :( Part 2

[jmac70]

Everything you wrote feels right at an emotional truth. And in some ways it resonates a little with my reaction to the Tom Silvagni thing too. It's easy to become absorbed by discourse that focusses on the perpetrator and lose sight of the victims and the horrible reality of what was done.

I would freely admit to being still in a form of shock. We are lucky here that atrocities of this magnitude are so rare in our experience it is almost impossible to assimilate the reality. But we have to understand for those directly involved, or who feel like they are in the line of fire because of it, its not remote. Its all too easy to assimilate the reality and the fear that bites into the soul like a cancer.

I don't know what the solution is. But I can only hope it lies somewhere in our power, and comes from rejecting the forces that led to this; the hate and dehumanisation that makes a group become a target. And hope that if I faced the test, I would take the same route as Ahmed al Ahmed. I guess his act is what I cling to to give me hope.

One of the hardest things I have found is talking about events like this with my son. I can't hide from him the fact the world at its core can be a ****ed up place and I dont have the answers and I wish I had easy answers or comforting words. He goes to school in Brighton and several of his mates are Jewish and he feels the attack on them as an attack on brothers.

I guess maybe there too lies some hope. Maybe him and his generation will do better than us.

Sorry for the rambling words. It has been a hard day at home, and it scrambles the brain. And I continue the challenge of life, to mix the strength to oppose and stand against the worst of humanity, with the love, patience, and compassion to give the best, and the hope that we can make inroads to move from one to the other. But if the time comes...meet it with fortitude too.

Love to you all and have a great Christmas and holiday season. Except Carlton **** those assholes.

There is no solution.

 

[Tadpole]

Wordle 1,646 6/6

 

[sr36]

Not to me. This happened on our shores.

An Israeli flag was posted to inflame and which also conflates Israel with Judaism. It's not hard to find a star of David not within the Israeli flag.

If as you say it's all about the victims being Australian and happening on Australian shores, why have you seemingly come out in defence of that post which makes it about another country - one that is committing genocide.

 

[jathanas]

An Israeli flag was posted to inflame and which also conflates Israel with Judaism. It's not hard to find a star of David not within the Israeli flag.

If as you say it's all about the victims being Australian and happening on Australian shores, why have you seemingly come out in defence of that post which makes it about another country - one that is committing genocide.

No idea what you're talking about plus I've already posted all I had to say on this.

Up to you decide if you trust where I'm coming from. Feel free to assign whatever motivation helps you sleep at night.

 

[sr36]

No idea what you're talking about plus I've already posted all I had to say on this.

Up to you decide if you trust where I'm coming from. Feel free to assign whatever motivation helps you sleep at night.

I'm not sure if you're playing dumb or not.

The posting of the Israeli flag is what took the conversation away from the Australian deaths to those in Gaza.

Yet your criticism is of replies to that post rather than of the posting of the flag.

 

[granniewolf]

Today 21/12

Wordle 1,646 3/6

 

[Ludovico]

Wordle 1,646 5/6








That was not a promising start but a good save

 

[ANewDawn]

I'm not sure if you're playing dumb or not.

The posting of the Israeli flag is what took the conversation away from the Australian deaths to those in Gaza.

Yet your criticism is of replies to that post rather than of the posting of the flag.

Someone said earlier they had Israeli friends or their son did at school and felt for their plight. My friend's financial advisors are Jewish and apparently told stories earlier on about the struggles of his children. His client, my friend, almost brought a dinner party to a halt a few weeks ago expressing her thoughts on the subject to an assembled group of ex public servants.

While all that was happening, thousands more bits and pieces of human shield were being flung around and under homes in Gaza. Netanyahu's final seemingly futile fling was sending everyone but Trump scurrying to the UN demanding seperate Palestines.

It's all very relative really, and sometimes its not. You could be watching life from the upper floor of your leafy Malvern home or from a suburban outpost looking over lakes of excreta being bubbled into purety, and still support the same team or at least hate the same enemy. Often it's a case of who you know or have known and would like to see more or less of as you live your future lives. Some stuff is personal and a summary of what we make of events and words that occured to us. Other stuff may include things which morality has made us believe.

One factor to keep in mind is the link with Trump. He jokes of 99% present approval rating from Israelis, and in fact only the Phillipines rivals Israel's support for the president. Nigeria is third! They love him. Netanyahu on the other hand is divisive, the same as Trump is everywere else. These people play with our heads, like these soon to be outlawed hate words that are bandied about in mosques and places and whip their flock into a frenzy.

I am often amazed at how Americans of opposite sides of the political spectrum can co-exist sufficiently to maintain businesses, economies and everyday life. People seem to have the capacity to endure the most monstrous differences yet still exist. In the end, it only takes one or two extremists exposed to ultra-radical thought to convince many that its the work of a religion or nation of people. All the best intentions are never going to account for the oddballs and looneys who have successfully hidden their true intentions to the very end.

Anyway, I will just maneuvre my way around the elephant in the room and make another coffee.

 

[Tadpole]

Wordle 1,647 4/6

 

[jathanas]

Someone said earlier they had Israeli friends or their son did at school and felt for their plight. My friend's financial advisors are Jewish and apparently told stories earlier on about the struggles of his children. His client, my friend, almost brought a dinner party to a halt a few weeks ago expressing her thoughts on the subject to an assembled group of ex public servants.

While all that was happening, thousands more bits and pieces of human shield were being flung around and under homes in Gaza. Netanyahu's final seemingly futile fling was sending everyone but Trump scurrying to the UN demanding seperate Palestines.

It's all very relative really, and sometimes its not. You could be watching life from the upper floor of your leafy Malvern home or from a suburban outpost looking over lakes of excreta being bubbled into purety, and still support the same team or at least hate the same enemy. Often it's a case of who you know or have known and would like to see more or less of as you live your future lives. Some stuff is personal and a summary of what we make of events and words that occured to us. Other stuff may include things which morality has made us believe.

One factor to keep in mind is the link with Trump. He jokes of 99% present approval rating from Israelis, and in fact only the Phillipines rivals Israel's support for the president. Nigeria is third! They love him. Netanyahu on the other hand is divisive, the same as Trump is everywere else. These people play with our heads, like these soon to be outlawed hate words that are bandied about in mosques and places and whip their flock into a frenzy.

I am often amazed at how Americans of opposite sides of the political spectrum can co-exist sufficiently to maintain businesses, economies and everyday life. People seem to have the capacity to endure the most monstrous differences yet still exist. In the end, it only takes one or two extremists exposed to ultra-radical thought to convince many that its the work of a religion or nation of people. All the best intentions are never going to account for the oddballs and looneys who have successfully hidden their true intentions to the very end.

Anyway, I will just maneuvre my way around the elephant in the room and make another coffee.

I’ll be honest — this reads like a lot of words designed to avoid sitting with what actually happened here.

Jewish Australians were murdered in Australia. Turning that into a meditation on Gaza, Trump, Netanyahu, or the human capacity to coexist feels less like context and more like distance.

Whatever else you believe about the world, this moment calls for empathy before abstraction. Otherwise it starts to sound like the violence is being explained away rather than confronted.

Anyway — I hope you enjoyed the coffee.

 

[jmac70]

I’ll be honest — this reads like a lot of words designed to avoid sitting with what actually happened here.

Jewish Australians were murdered in Australia. Turning that into a meditation on Gaza, Trump, Netanyahu, or the human capacity to coexist feels less like context and more like distance.

Whatever else you believe about the world, this moment calls for empathy before abstraction. Otherwise it starts to sound like the violence is being explained away rather than confronted.

Anyway — I hope you enjoyed the coffee.

The only explanation is hate.
Sadly, there is no solution.

 

[JuniorB]

I’ll be honest — this reads like a lot of words designed to avoid sitting with what actually happened here.

Jewish Australians were murdered in Australia. Turning that into a meditation on Gaza, Trump, Netanyahu, or the human capacity to coexist feels less like context and more like distance.

Whatever else you believe about the world, this moment calls for empathy before abstraction. Otherwise it starts to sound like the violence is being explained away rather than confronted.

Anyway — I hope you enjoyed the coffee.

I view what you're saying as diverting attention away from this specific incident to a broader context.
There is still a common thread, and unfortunately, as jmac70 says, it's hatred.
Hatred that dates back centuries, so long ago that nobody really knows why they hate.

 

[jathanas]

I view what you're saying as diverting attention away from this specific incident to a broader context.
***

That’s actually the opposite of what I’m trying to do.

My point is about this incident, here, now — Jewish Australians murdered in Australia. I’m pushing back on the instinct to immediately widen the lens to centuries of history or global conflicts, because that’s how the specifics disappear.

Context matters — but empathy and clarity come first.

Talking about “hatred that dates back centuries” might feel explanatory, but in moments like this it mostly functions as distance. It turns a local, targeted act into something abstract and impersonal.

 

[JuniorB]

That’s actually the opposite of what I’m trying to do.

My point is about this incident, here, now — Jewish Australians murdered in Australia. I’m pushing back on the instinct to immediately widen the lens to centuries of history or global conflicts, because that’s how the specifics disappear.

Context matters — but empathy and clarity come first.

Talking about “hatred that dates back centuries” might feel explanatory, but in moments like this it mostly functions as distance. It turns a local, targeted act into something abstract and impersonal.

Sorry, I meant to say that you are encouraging people to focus on this horrific incident, rather than bring Gaza, etc, into it.
I just didn't express it clearly.

 

[granniewolf]

Today 22/12

Wordle 1,647 5/6

 

[gouki88]

That’s actually the opposite of what I’m trying to do.

My point is about this incident, here, now — Jewish Australians murdered in Australia. I’m pushing back on the instinct to immediately widen the lens to centuries of history or global conflicts, because that’s how the specifics disappear.

Context matters — but empathy and clarity come first.

Talking about “hatred that dates back centuries” might feel explanatory, but in moments like this it mostly functions as distance. It turns a local, targeted act into something abstract and impersonal.

How can you hope to have clarity without context? How can we hope to prevent this happening again without looking at the various drivers and enablers?

It is frankly bizarre to me that you're going this hard on 'the specifics' towards posters who replied to the initial (and intentional) inflammatory conflation of this hate crime with Israel.

 

[jathanas]

How can you hope to have clarity without context? How can we hope to prevent this happening again without looking at the various drivers and enablers?

It is frankly bizarre to me that you're going this hard on 'the specifics' towards posters who replied to the initial (and intentional) inflammatory conflation of this hate crime with Israel.

I don’t disagree that context matters — it does. I’m just choosing a narrower scope.

My comments are meant to stand on their own merit. I haven’t defended or attacked Israel (or anyone's defence of it), and that’s deliberate. I’ve kept the focus on Australian victims and on a very local question: how we prevent further religiously motivated violence on our own shores?

Others are understandably looking at this through a global or geopolitical lens. That’s fine. It’s just not the lens I’m using here.

I think we’ve probably reached the point where further discussion won’t add much. I’m comfortable leaving it there.

Peace. Merry Xmas.

 

[jmac70]

I don’t disagree that context matters — it does. I’m just choosing a narrower scope.

My comments are meant to stand on their own merit. I haven’t defended or attacked Israel (or anyone's defence of it), and that’s deliberate. I’ve kept the focus on Australian victims and on a very local question: how we prevent further religiously motivated violence on our own shores?

Others are understandably looking at this through a global or geopolitical lens. That’s fine. It’s just not the lens I’m using here.

I think we’ve probably reached the point where further discussion won’t add much. I’m comfortable leaving it there.

Peace. Merry Xmas.

In terms of prevention we need to remember that two lunatics out of an entire population decided to open fire on a religious gathering. This horrific incident is not representative of our society.

 

[jathanas]

In terms of prevention we need to remember that two lunatics out of an entire population decided to open fire on a religious gathering. This horrific incident is not representative of our society.

I prefer to use more specific language to describe what happened. 2 radicalized Islamists - one or both may have been Australian citizens - opened fire on Australian Jews.

I don’t want it to be representative of our society, and believe it’s something we should actively work to prevent from ever happening again.

We both want the same thing Jmac. Merry Xmas bud. X

 

[sr36]

That’s actually the opposite of what I’m trying to do.

My point is about this incident, here, now — Jewish Australians murdered in Australia. I’m pushing back on the instinct to immediately widen the lens to centuries of history or global conflicts, because that’s how the specifics disappear.

Context matters — but empathy and clarity come first.

Talking about “hatred that dates back centuries” might feel explanatory, but in moments like this it mostly functions as distance. It turns a local, targeted act into something abstract and impersonal.

What's abstract and impersonal? Islamic extremist terror? anti-Semitism? The war in Gaza? The first two are clearly central to the story and have been since the story broke and we've heard for two years that Gaza is resulting in increased anti-Semitism and increased likelihood of an attack like this. Of course it's going to be discussed in relation to this horrible event.

 

[jmac70]

I prefer to use more specific language to describe what happened. 2 radicalized Islamists - one or both may have been Australian citizens - opened fire on Australian Jews.

I don’t want it to be representative of our society, and believe it’s something we should actively work to prevent from ever happening again.

We both want the same thing Jmac. Merry Xmas bud. X

Merry Christmas to you too mate.

 

[jathanas]

What's abstract and impersonal? Islamic extremist terror? anti-Semitism? The war in Gaza? The first two are clearly central to the story and have been since the story broke and we've heard for two years that Gaza is resulting in increased anti-Semitism and increased likelihood of an attack like this. Of course it's going to be discussed in relation to this horrible event.

Would gladly engage with you on this face-to-face over a few drinks, but this might be too nuanced a discussion for the COVID thread.

I'm mindful of that, as well as how much gets lost in translation.

A safe and happy Xmas to you and yours, Sr.

 

[manicpie]

How can you hope to have clarity without context? How can we hope to prevent this happening again without looking at the various drivers and enablers?

It is frankly bizarre to me that you're going this hard on 'the specifics' towards posters who replied to the initial (and intentional) inflammatory conflation of this hate crime with Israel

You do realise that these two Islamic terrorists were indoctrinated in the big Lakemba mosque?. You probably haven't even heard it or know it exists. The imam there is a jihadi. He preaches physical jihad. Wake up dude. It's plain as the nose on your face. Would you like the videos of what this dog is spreading?. This is on Albo. He knows it, everyone with half a brain knows it. I was at the march yesterday and there were hundreds of Jews there mixed in with thousands of concerned Australians. They were singing songs together. Australian and Jewish flags in unison. It's better than the flag burners at the other rallies who chant anti Semitic slurs and and hold up hamas flags.

 

[gouki88]

You do realise that these two Islamic terrorists were indoctrinated in the big Lakemba mosque?. You probably haven't even heard it or know it exists. The imam there is a jihadi. He preaches physical jihad. Wake up dude. It's plain as the nose on your face. Would you like the videos of what this dog is spreading?. This is on Albo. He knows it, everyone with half a brain knows it. I was at the march yesterday and there were hundreds of Jews there mixed in with thousands of concerned Australians. They were singing songs together. Australian and Jewish flags in unison. It's better than the flag burners at the other rallies who chant anti Semitic slurs and and hold up hamas flags.

I am fully aware. Same mosque that the Muslim community had been warning NSW police about for years. You are off the deep end on this one. Good on you for finding a voice for something. To link the marches with this person that had been known to security agencies since 2019, the same agencies which have had resources diverted away from this VERY thing to police those marches that scare you so much, is just evidence of how unhinged you are on this issue.

But go ahead, see how much more you can politicise this terrorist incident. If you want to seriously align yourself with ghouls like Hanson, Frydenberg, Ley, Joyce, Leibler and co. then that is a reflection on you. To hold the PM somehow singlehandedly responsible for this is simply delusional

 

[manicpie]

I am fully aware. Same mosque that the Muslim community had been warning NSW police about for years. You are off the deep end on this one. Good on you for finding a voice for something. To link the marches with this person that had been known to security agencies since 2019, the same agencies which have had resources diverted away from this VERY thing to police those marches that scare you so much, is just evidence of how unhinged you are on this issue.

But go ahead, see how much more you can politicise this terrorist incident. If you want to seriously align yourself with ghouls like Hanson, Frydenberg, Ley, Joyce, Leibler and co. then that is a reflection on you. To hold the PM somehow singlehandedly responsible for this is simply delusional

Do you know what from the river to the sea means? You're the one politicising it . Should we just sweep it under the carpet. This is much bigger than 2 rogue blokes. You are an Albo lackey. That's the same propaganda he's spewing out. Don't show your true colours too much. I will continue to tell the truth till I can't breathe anymore. Your anti Semitic views are tatooed on your forehead.