Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[Gralin]

Good point though I've never consumed much of Newscorp. My main point is that RC's don't really seem to deliver any tangible results. It's really an exercise to let which ever government implementing a hair brained (in Robodebts case criminal) scheme off the hook with aforementioned "findings and recommendations" which do **** all to assist the victims.

It's a pressure release mechanism

We've called a royal Commission so now we have to wait for the findings before doing anything

This gives them months without public pressure

Then the findings are released and they say we'll review them

More time

Then they'll implement some of them maybe

And it's all over, it works because the media is complicit in this whole charade

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

It's a pressure release mechanism

We've called a royal Commission so now we have to wait for the findings before doing anything

This gives them months without public pressure

Then the findings are released and they say we'll review them

More time

Then they'll implement some of them maybe

And it's all over, it works because the media is complicit in this whole charade

I'd still contend the only RC that has tangibly served its purpose despite political interference and failures of an incoming Coalition government was the RC into Institutional Child Abuse.

It essentially broke the back of secrecy and unspoken power both religious institutions and elite schools seemed to hold over law enforcement, and to a degree the media and legal fraternity.

To a see a state, Victoria, at least temporarily jail a cardinal, would be unthinkable in many nations around the world. Whilst it did not go far enough, I don't think we'd have seen a state government, prosecutors or police force willing to tackle Institutional power like that had the RC not previously brought an unimaginable list of wrongdoing to light and made the public quest for justice at the least a posibility.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Discrimination is discrimination regardless of who is on the receiving end.

What actions do you think should be taken by the government to address antisemitism separately to any other kind of discrimination? Like you say it's been going on for thousands of years so obviously it's not something that can be solved simply by throwing money at it. This isn't a case of a government policy of discrimination like 1930s Germany or Soviet Russia, it's extremist groups pushing their agendas of hate and ignorance. We have laws on the books to deal with them, they should be accountable for their bigoted bile.

I already have these books on my bookshelf, so I probably don't need to add to it with the one you've suggested but I'll take it onboard.

View attachment 2500526View attachment 2500527

Very good selection, especially Wistrich. No doubt you've read them all and are able to grasp why this hatred is unique and at least equally worthy of fighting at all costs.

 

[Gralin]

I'd still contend the only RC that has tangibly served its purpose despite political interference and failures of an incoming Coalition government was the RC into Institutional Child Abuse.

It essentially broke the back of secrecy and unspoken power both religious institutions and elite schools seemed to hold over law enforcement, and to a degree the media and legal fraternity.

To a see a state, Victoria, at least temporarily jail a cardinal, would be unthinkable in many nations around the world. Whilst it did not go far enough, I don't think we'd have seen a state government, prosecutors or police force willing to tackle Institutional power like that had the RC not previously brought an unimaginable list of wrongdoing to light and made the public quest for justice at the least a posibility.

I'd say this is proven incorrect by the current situation in privatised childcare and also the ongoing abuse in Tasmania

I'm not saying nothing goor can ever come out of a royal Commission

But largely what happens is theres some media coverage of how bad things were because that will generate traffic

And then...... Nothing

What is evident is governments all need to be dragged kicking and screaming to evern consider doing anything to protect the public and they'll do as little as they can get away with

 

[Sttew]

It essentially broke the back of secrecy and unspoken power both religious institutions and elite schools seemed to hold over law enforcement, and to a degree the media and legal fraternity.

Very naïve to think institutional abuse and secrecy was confined to "religious institutions and elite schools". But when you're trying politicise it, I guess you need to stretch the truth

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Very naïve to think institutional abuse and secrecy was confined to "religious institutions and elite schools". But when you're trying politicise it, I guess you need to stretch the truth

That's neither what I think, nor what I said. What a waste of a post.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A state Royal Commission cannot inquire into issues in another jurisdiction; that's why there are calls for a federal Royal Commission.

And it is not bulltish to say we need a Federal RC given at least 2 states have experienced serious acts of antisemitism. There are lessons to be learned that a RC in one jurisdiction is unlikely to achieve for obvious reasons.

No other state has experienced an antisemitic act remotely like Bondi. Antisemitism is a problem in Australia but it's not the only problem we face, it's not the only bigotry we see, and a federal RC as well is overkill.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

I'd say this is proven incorrect by the current situation in privatised childcare and also the ongoing abuse in Tasmania

I'm not saying nothing goor can ever come out of a royal Commission

But largely what happens is theres some media coverage of how bad things were because that will generate traffic

And then...... Nothing

What is evident is governments all need to be dragged kicking and screaming to evern consider doing anything to protect the public and they'll do as little as they can get away with

I'd disagree in that historically, we'd not see these issues confronted publicly at all.

At least now law enforcement have dedicated resources for tackling systemic abuse within a host of settings AND are acting to bring perpetrators to justice. That is also being exposed to public scrutiny.

But you are correct in that a fight for justice will always be continuous. We will always have to fight political inertia and vested interest.

 

[Not Important]

100% x 2

David Milner (@davemilbo.bsky.social)

I find it sooooooooooo weird people are upset "Albo" was booed, and not that his government is eroding our democratic rights to appease the extremist genocidaires that booed him. Big picture. Focus on our democracy and rights, not the pride/image of an individual politician.

bsky.app

David Milner (@davemilbo.bsky.social)

The remains of Australian democracy is facing the most opportunistic, dangerous assault from fascists outside the government and complicit jellyfish within. Fortunately, we have the world's worst journalists to help us. You can drink this early on the holidays, right?

bsky.app

 

[Gralin]

I'd disagree in that historically, we'd not see these issues confronted publicly at all.

Thats not because of Royal Commissions though

At least now law enforcement have dedicated resources for tackling systemic abuse within a host of settings AND are acting to bring perpetrators to justice. That is also being exposed to public scrutiny.

The rotten core

A Tasmanian inquiry uncovered decades of catastrophic failure to protect young people in the state’s care and a bureaucratic tangle that sheltered their abusers

www.themonthly.com.au

The above is still ongoing in Tassie

But you are correct in that a fight for justice will always be continuous. We will always have to fight political inertia and vested interest.

Yes and my point is RCs are largely an instrument used to protect political inertia

 

[Sttew]

No other state has experienced an antisemitic act remotely like Bondi. Antisemitism is a problem in Australia but it's not the only problem we face, it's not the only bigotry we see, and a federal RC as well is overkill.

You are so wrong and I really don't understand the denial. Where do you live?

No other state has experienced an antisemitic massacre like Bondi, but if you think fire bombing two synagogues months apart (and on both occasions fire bombing synagogues while people were inside), harassing and name calling Jewish school students in a public space, graffitiing Jewish houses and shops, telling a Jewish family, including young children, to "go to the gas chambers" on public transport, is not antisemitism.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Thats not because of Royal Commissions though

The rotten core

A Tasmanian inquiry uncovered decades of catastrophic failure to protect young people in the state’s care and a bureaucratic tangle that sheltered their abusers

www.themonthly.com.au

The above is still ongoing in Tassie


Yes and my point is RCs are largely an instrument used to protect political inertia

There is no way that the EC into institutional respinses to child abuse could be said to have protected political inertia.

Imperfect in nature, but has had very real benefits and I will stand by that.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

100% x 2

David Milner (@davemilbo.bsky.social)

I find it sooooooooooo weird people are upset "Albo" was booed, and not that his government is eroding our democratic rights to appease the extremist genocidaires that booed him. Big picture. Focus on our democracy and rights, not the pride/image of an individual politician.

bsky.app

David Milner (@davemilbo.bsky.social)

The remains of Australian democracy is facing the most opportunistic, dangerous assault from fascists outside the government and complicit jellyfish within. Fortunately, we have the world's worst journalists to help us. You can drink this early on the holidays, right?

bsky.app

A timely take.

It definitely won't go down well.

 

[JackOutback]

Yes Albo has won two elections but in recent weeks two things have stamped Albo a weak and indecisive leader. And in case you hadn't noticed it is not just the Opposition or Murdoch press criticising him.

The first example was how he responded to the Anika Wells' travel 'rort'. Albo dismissed any criticism of his minister and said there was nothing to see. The travel claims may have been within the rules (which the government oversees), but everyone, except Albo, could see it was not appropriate for taxpayers to be funding travel claims for families of MP's.

Then a week ago Bondi. At a press conference that night Albo stood up and said his government would do everything to stamp out antisemitism. That declaration pissed off Australians and a male journalist at the press conference called him out on it. Why? Because, as Michelle Grattan, arguably one of the most non-partisan journalists seen in this country wrote, "the massacre is the horrific culmination of the antisemitism epidemic that has spread like a wildfire in Australia."

Yesterday at a press conference Albo was asked whether his refusal to call a federal Royal Commission was because he didn't want the truth coming out. Albo said "no" and promptly walked off, cutting the press conference short.

Is it any wonder Grattan also wrote, "Albanese says, “We will do whatever is necessary to stamp out antisemitism”. That, of course, is overblown rhetoric. This scourge is not going to be dealt with, let alone eradicated, quickly, by any single measure, or sets of measures. It will need concerted and prolonged effort from both governments and civil society to at least bring it under control." A good start is a Royal Commission.

I like Albo. He is a decent and genuine person. But of late he is way out of his depth, IMO.

It is 100 per cent being driven by them, though. They keep repeating that the community is outraged and angry. That's not what I am seeing, though, in my workplace or my community. People are saddened, frustrated even that religious conflicts that we have largely tried to steer our country away from are finding their way here, but despite the rhetoric from the Opposition and press, I'm not seeing anyone else call Albanese a murderer.

The fact is, this was an attack inspired by IS ideology, not Hamas, there's no evidence that the two gunmen ever attended a Palestinian rally, supported Palestinian statehood or were inspired by the government's announcement it would recognise a future Palestine state. The bow that is being drawn here is impossibly long. Anti-Semitism is on the rise globally, that's not Albanese's fault either. In fact, the only world leader that could immediately do something to bring the temperature down is Benjamin Netanyahu and he doesn't care to.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You are so wrong and I really don't understand the denial. Where do you live?

No other state has experienced a massacre like Bondi, but if you think fire bombing two synagogues months apart (and on both occasions fire bombing synagogues while people were inside), harassing and name calling Jewish school students in a public space, graffitiing Jewish houses and shops, telling a Jewish family, including young children, to "go to the gas chambers" on public transport, is not antisemitism.

I repeat, we have a problem with antisemitism but it's not the only bigotry we see. Ask a few indigenous Australians or a few Muslim Australians about their quotidian experiences for starters.

We're getting an RC into Bondi. One is enough right now.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

I repeat, we have a problem with antisemitism but it's not the only bigotry we see. Ask a few indigenous Australians or a few Muslim Australians about their quotidian experiences for starters.

We're getting an RC into Bondi. One is enough right now.

Look at the Nationals taking the public stance that Australia and government are basically not Islamophobic enough.

 

[Gralin]

No other state has experienced a massacre like Bondi,

Just out of interest are you saying this because the targets were Jewish or are you saying this because you have a short memory?

Bondi doesn't have the biggest death toll from a mass shooting in this country in my lifetime

Bondi isn't the biggest mass murder based on identity in this country in its history either

 

[Not Important]

You are so wrong and I really don't understand the denial. Where do you live?

No other state has experienced a massacre like Bondi, but if you think fire bombing two synagogues months apart (and on both occasions fire bombing synagogues while people were inside), harassing and name calling Jewish school students in a public space, graffitiing Jewish houses and shops, telling a Jewish family, including young children, to "go to the gas chambers" on public transport, is not antisemitism.

the fire bombing was an atrocity. it wasn't directly muslin related. in fact, the islamic council was dismayed and said so. the other matters apply equally to muslims. i can even recall catholics being subjected to it. what is concerning are the double standards. there have been attacks on mosques. and on muslims. there was the nz murders, where more were killed. yet the same authoritarian outrage and excessive restrictions never applied. seems you don't see both sides and are content to restrict free speech and the right to demonstrate only when it's from one side of the equation.

 

[King Patty]

 

[Sttew]

Just out of interest are you saying this because the targets were Jewish or are you saying this because you have a short memory?

Bondi doesn't have the biggest death toll from a mass shooting in this country in my lifetime

Bondi isn't the biggest mass murder based on identity in this country in its history either

I was addressing a point by SBJ who said "No other state has experienced an antisemitic act remotely like Bondi".
I think it was pretty bloody obvious what I was posting about

 

[Gralin]

I was addressing a point by SBJ who said "No other state has experienced an antisemitic act remotely like Bondi".

Doesn't answer my question does it Sttew

 

[Sttew]

the fire bombing was an atrocity. it wasn't directly muslin related.

So what? The fire bombing of Adass Synagogue was definitely an antisemitic act. An antisemitic act is an action, behavior, or statement motivated by prejudice, hostility, or discrimination against Jewish people or Judaism as a religious, ethnic, or racial group.

 

[Sttew]

Doesn't answer my question does it Sttew

What point are you trying to make? If you'd bothered to read the thread of posts you will see I was talking only about antisemitism and the perception Albo has not done enough. I am aware of Port Arthur but what relevance does it have?

Why don't you ask the same question of SBD Gonzalez who actually made the statement first?

 

[Gralin]

What point are you trying to make? If you'd bothered to read the thread of posts you will see I was talking only about antisemitism and the perception Albo has not done enough. I am aware of Port Arthur but what relevance does it have?

Why don't you ask the same question of SBD Gonzalez who actually made the statement first?

Because he didn't say nowhere else had a massacre like Bondi, you did ,and I was asking you what context you meant that in

 

[Sttew]

Because he didn't say nowhere else had a massacre like Bondi, you did ,and I was asking you what context you meant that in

And I have told you now three times what I meant. I have corrected the OP.