Test Surely the Cummins/McDonald captain/coach setup is the worst in Australian Test history

[Topkent]

Yes but at the start of the series when all this talk started we had probably our greatest bowling attack in our history…. played in the last 2 world test championships … a team has to be the worst I guess but it’s not really the right term when you are producing powerful successful cricket teams.
Johnson and Haddin won a series on their on own back in the day. Maybe that team wasn’t as strong as this one?

It's not a die on the hill argument, I just don't think what Broad said was that crazy. That team in 13/14 had Mitchell Johnson having one of the all time greats series, David Warner averaged 60 with Haddin, Ryan Harris was a gun and averaged 19 with the ball, Siddle 24, Michael clarke and Shane Watson were bloody good cricketers at the time as well.
13/14 also had Nathan Lyon . Chris Rogers was better than Weatherald.


Saying they won a series on their own is like saying Starc and head did the same this time around

 

[Kapow!!!]

Yes but at the start of the series when all this talk started we had probably our greatest bowling attack in our history…. played in the last 2 world test championships … a team has to be the worst I guess but it’s not really the right term when you are producing powerful successful cricket teams.
Johnson and Haddin won a series on their on own back in the day. Maybe that team wasn’t as strong as this one?

I mean that team also went on to beat a dominant South Africa in South Africa a couple of months after that series. Fair to say they were probably one of if not the best in the world for a brief window of time there.

 

[ioppolo]

It's not a die on the hill argument, I just don't think what Broad said was that crazy. That team in 13/14 had Mitchell Johnson having one of the all time greats series, David Warner averaged 60 with Haddin, Ryan Harris was a gun and averaged 19 with the ball, Siddle 24, Michael clarke and Shane Watson were bloody good cricketers at the time as well.
13/14 also had Nathan Lyon . Chris Rogers was better than Weatherald.


Saying they won a series on their own is like saying Starc and head did the same this time around

Easy to forget how bloody immense Haddin was with the bat that series. Forgotten because of no hundreds but dug us out of a hole about seven times.

 

[Young Redleg]

Easy to forget how bloody immense Haddin was with the bat that series. Forgotten because of no hundreds but dug us out of a hole about seven times.

He scored a century in the Adelaide test

 

[dumb]

my earlier comment in the thread that our tactics are merely adequate still seems to be true. a lot of the dislike of tactics i think, boils down to not wanting to see so much passivity or defensiveness. i mean, our tactics and field settings, bowling changes are certainly enough to win. but pat is not a forceful captain. so we can see the game drift.

 

[Boston tiger]

I mean that team also went on to beat a dominant South Africa in South Africa a couple of months after that series. Fair to say they were probably one of if not the best in the world for a brief window of time there.

As we are now. This worst team business when we are comparing teams that are either definitely the best in the world or near to it seems like we are feeding the trolls a bit etc.

 

[katana]

Easy to forget how bloody immense Haddin was with the bat that series. Forgotten because of no hundreds but dug us out of a hole about seven times.

it's also easy to forget the context. england won 3 zip earlier that year at home. johnson was pox in that series and the previous ashes in australia. stuart broad took 6fa in the first innings first test had aus all out for under 300 after a rearguard from johnson and haddin. england had a very settled and experienced side, one of their ever best spinners, two of their best ever quicks, one of their greatest openers. had beaten teams in every part of the world. mitchell johnson just deleted them, caused the entire make-up of a world number one team to implode. multiple players going home, side in a total meltdown.

i'd have the current aus side over 13/14 for sure. you can't expect mitchell johnson to do that (nor anyone for that matter) again. this series i though england probably win a live test, in that series i expected england would win the series or at least retain the ashes. they got absolutely minced. it was out of nowhere.

 

[Topkent]

As we are now. This worst team business when we are comparing teams that are either definitely the best in the world or near to it seems like we are feeding the trolls a bit etc.

Not really, just a discussion.
Plus broads comments were taken way of context, he literally said Australia were still favourites and would more than likely win but this was England's best change since 2010, at the start of the series that wasn't crazy at all

 

[DaRick]

it's also easy to forget the context. england won 3 zip earlier that year at home. johnson was pox in that series and the previous ashes in australia. stuart broad took 6fa in the first innings first test had aus all out for under 300 after a rearguard from johnson and haddin. england had a very settled and experienced side, one of their ever best spinners, two of their best ever quicks, one of their greatest openers. had beaten teams in every part of the world. mitchell johnson just deleted them, caused the entire make-up of a world number one team to implode. multiple players going home, side in a total meltdown.

i'd have the current aus side over 13/14 for sure. you can't expect mitchell johnson to do that (nor anyone for that matter) again. this series i though england probably win a live test, in that series i expected england would win the series or at least retain the ashes. they got absolutely minced. it was out of nowhere.

Johnson didn't even play in the 2013 Ashes.

That's what made his comeback all the more shocking.

 

[swanssince2002]

The 2013 team I remember was on an absolute rollercoaster. Started with the whole homework gate thing in India where the team got absolutely smashed 4-0, and it wasn't even close. Arthur gets the boot, replaced by Lehmann for the Ashes series. Of course, recovering from the lowest point the public didn't expect much. 2 draws in which the team was competitive, so it was okay. Back then Johnson and Lyon weren't in the side. Starc was becoming a mainstay.

I remember Lehmann advocated for aggressive cricket, and was more in your face about it and that really became the mantra by the home Ashes in 2013/14. Starc was injured and we wondered who would be the answer. Now with Johnson back in, things got spicy on the pitch. At times, bowling 150km hand grenades. Some sledging as well. Cricket is a funny game, how the same bowlers that were there in the smashing of 2010/11 looked like world beaters in 2013/14. Harris and Johnson producing unbelievable peaches to get batsman out. Only difference was a settled spinner in Lyon.

Also a reminder of how different the team culture and philosophy is compared to 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago.

 

[Boston tiger]

Not really, just a discussion.
Plus broads comments were taken way of context, he literally said Australia were still favourites and would more than likely win but this was England's best change since 2010, at the start of the series that wasn't crazy at all

Give him some kudos for getting worst and Australia in the same sentence though. Well played hip hip.

 

[Topkent]

Give him some kudos for getting worst and Australia in the same sentence though. Well played hip hip.

Really rattled you hasn't it fella lol

 

[Daka]

Cummins is 3rd behind Waugh & Bradman in terms of win % of top 10 Australian Captains.

I don't know how anyone can think Cummins is a bad captain, even if you don't like his personality you have to agree he has been good for Australia.

 

[Millky95]

Johnson didn't even play in the 2013 Ashes.

That's what made his comeback all the more shocking.

Johnson played the ODIs vs India between the back to back Ashes and was easily our best bowler. Got him selected for the tests and then went on, imo, the single best 8 game test bowling patch I have ever seen.

 

[passmark]

Cummins is 3rd behind Waugh & Bradman in terms of win % of top 10 Australian Captains.

I don't know how anyone can think Cummins is a bad captain, even if you don't like his personality you have to agree he has been good for Australia.

Great skipper.
Better bloke.

Easily my favourite Australian skipper ever, after AB.

Incels and culture warriors came after him and they got their arses handed to them.

Gem.

 

[Young Redleg]

The 2013 team I remember was on an absolute rollercoaster. Started with the whole homework gate thing in India where the team got absolutely smashed 4-0, and it wasn't even close. Arthur gets the boot, replaced by Lehmann for the Ashes series. Of course, recovering from the lowest point the public didn't expect much. 2 draws in which the team was competitive, so it was okay. Back then Johnson and Lyon weren't in the side. Starc was becoming a mainstay.

I remember Lehmann advocated for aggressive cricket, and was more in your face about it and that really became the mantra by the home Ashes in 2013/14. Starc was injured and we wondered who would be the answer. Now with Johnson back in, things got spicy on the pitch. At times, bowling 150km hand grenades. Some sledging as well. Cricket is a funny game, how the same bowlers that were there in the smashing of 2010/11 looked like world beaters in 2013/14. Harris and Johnson producing unbelievable peaches to get batsman out. Only difference was a settled spinner in Lyon.

Also a reminder of how different the team culture and philosophy is compared to 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago.

Honestly that 2013 Ashes series felt really close for a 3-0 defeat. We probably would have won Trent Bridge if Broad walked, we dominated Old Trafford and the Oval until rain kicked in, and we were were super close at Riverside until the very end. Not to mention that Bell was basically the difference between the two sides, scoring three centuries.

I felt oddly confident after that series despite not winning a single game. I thought we could easily win the next Ashes series, but definitely not to the extent that we ended up doing.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Honestly that 2013 Ashes series felt really close for a 3-0 defeat. We probably would have won Trent Bridge if Broad walked, we dominated Old Trafford and the Oval until rain kicked in, and we were were super close at Riverside until the very end. Not to mention that Bell was basically the difference between the two sides, scoring three centuries.

I felt oddly confident after that series despite not winning a single game. I thought we could easily win the next Ashes series, but definitely not to the extent that we ended up doing.

Ryan Harris took 46 wickets at an average under 20 for both those series. He was the leading wicket taker for both sides for the whole series in England at the best strike rate outside of part timers and quite frankly outpointed both Broad and Anderson in English conditions. Johnson had a legendary series in his own right but he had Harris being the McGrath to his Warne so to speak which makes life incredibly tough for opposition bats.

He didn't get the best run at it being a late bloomer and having a terrible injury run but he was a generational talent in his own right and one many keep underrating in the history books. KP is on record saying he's the best he faced because you were never truly in against him. My hot take that really shouldn't be that hot is that if Harris isn't injured we win in 2015 4-1.

 

[eth-dog]

Ryan Harris took 46 wickets at an average under 20 for both those series. He was the leading wicket taker for both sides for the whole series in England at the best strike rate outside of part timers and quite frankly outpointed both Broad and Anderson in English conditions. Johnson had a legendary series in his own right but he had Harris being the McGrath to his Warne so to speak which makes life incredibly tough for opposition bats.

He didn't get the best run at it being a late bloomer and having a terrible injury run but he was a generational talent in his own right and one many keep underrating in the history books. KP is on record saying he's the best he faced because you were never truly in against him. My hot take that really shouldn't be that hot is that if Harris isn't injured we win in 2015 4-1.

Averaged over 4 wickets a test which is ridiculous

 

[Topkent]

Ryan Harris took 46 wickets at an average under 20 for both those series. He was the leading wicket taker for both sides for the whole series in England at the best strike rate outside of part timers and quite frankly outpointed both Broad and Anderson in English conditions. Johnson had a legendary series in his own right but he had Harris being the McGrath to his Warne so to speak which makes life incredibly tough for opposition bats.

He didn't get the best run at it being a late bloomer and having a terrible injury run but he was a generational talent in his own right and one many keep underrating in the history books. KP is on record saying he's the best he faced because you were never truly in against him. My hot take that really shouldn't be that hot is that if Harris isn't injured we win in 2015 4-1.

I've always been willing to have this argument, I fully get longevity means something, but Harris when he came in was maybe 4th behind behind McGrath, Cummins, Johnson at his best.

 

[Millky95]

Ryan Harris took 46 wickets at an average under 20 for both those series. He was the leading wicket taker for both sides for the whole series in England at the best strike rate outside of part timers and quite frankly outpointed both Broad and Anderson in English conditions. Johnson had a legendary series in his own right but he had Harris being the McGrath to his Warne so to speak which makes life incredibly tough for opposition bats.

He didn't get the best run at it being a late bloomer and having a terrible injury run but he was a generational talent in his own right and one many keep underrating in the history books. KP is on record saying he's the best he faced because you were never truly in against him. My hot take that really shouldn't be that hot is that if Harris isn't injured we win in 2015 4-1.

Harris was a perfect foil for Johnson with the new ball. Between them it made the English try to attack prime Siddle (which KP really struggled against) and Lyon.

They set up probably most of the wickets taken in that series

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Ryan Harris took 46 wickets at an average under 20 for both those series. He was the leading wicket taker for both sides for the whole series in England at the best strike rate outside of part timers and quite frankly outpointed both Broad and Anderson in English conditions. Johnson had a legendary series in his own right but he had Harris being the McGrath to his Warne so to speak which makes life incredibly tough for opposition bats.

He didn't get the best run at it being a late bloomer and having a terrible injury run but he was a generational talent in his own right and one many keep underrating in the history books. KP is on record saying he's the best he faced because you were never truly in against him. My hot take that really shouldn't be that hot is that if Harris isn't injured we win in 2015 4-1.

Harris' ball to get Cook out in Perth in 13/14 was pure cricketing pr0n.

 

[passmark]

Hatris' ball to get Cook out in Perth in 13/14 was pure cricketing pr0n.

How many sherbets u had today?

 

[Gethelred]

Harris' ball to get Cook out in Perth in 13/14 was pure cricketing pr0n.

It's easily the best ball I've ever seen.

 

[Kapow!!!]

It's easily the best ball I've ever seen.

Seconded

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It's easily the best ball I've ever seen.

It was unplayable.