Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FF *Guilty Overturned on Appeal
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FM *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

WT - William Tyrrell
FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[winyhill]

Im thinking someone else.
Who took a phone call at the Tennis Club after 9.37 and before the 000 call?
Who was in charge of getting footage from CCTV?
Who had also known FGM a long time?
Just putting it out there.

Edit. I think the FGM knew what happened

That is pretty defamatory. And also makes no sense.

Why would a serving Police officer risk their career and even jail time just for a local they knew. Plus there was no secret about the phone call. I am referring to the fact there was a phone call, not the origin or contents, which obviously is what you mean.

And I am sure the Police would have checked it out to their satisfaction as where it came from. As she dealt with troubled youth, whatever it was would not have been made public.

 

[Leon Higgins]

Reception issues at the house explains that. I know where I live I have no mobile reception. Only wireless calling at the house and immediate garden area through starlink. So phone stays on bench in house and only picked up when I come in to check for missed calls.
I never carry phone phone around outside. Waste of time.

Then how did the FM receive a text message from the FF, if the phone didn’t work. Was she expecting the text and turned it on. Pre-planned?

 

[Leon Higgins]

One of the aspects of this case that I would like to see clarified is the phone reception. Was the reception as bad as they made out in 2014 in Benaroon drive?. The tower in Lakewood would also serve Benaroon drive. The direct line is not that far and the house was elevated.

I looked at a map and struggled to see anything that would have reduced the reception.

 

[winyhill]

Then how did the FM receive a text message from the FF, if the phone didn’t work. Was she expecting the text and turned it on. Pre-planned?

Texts often will come through even where no ability to voice call, but often with a delay.
My memory of the inquest testimony is that she either didn't receive it until he was already home, or didn't look at her phone until after he was home.

 

[Leon Higgins]

What's stopping the release of the FM walkthrough?
Why is she still protected? Why her?

As she is still the chief suspect, it is being retained for use in potential legal action.

 

[winyhill]

One of the aspects of this case that I would like to see clarified is the phone reception. Was the reception as bad as they made out in 2014 in Benaroon drive?. The tower in Lakewood would also serve Benaroon drive. The direct line is not that far and the house was elevated.

I looked at a map and struggled to see anything that would have reduced the reception.

The tower at Lakewood is an Optus tower, I know that as recently as three years ago there was no Telstra reception at all in the area south of Port Macquarie. Lake Cathie, Lakewood, Kendall etc. Perhaps now, I couldn't comment, but that is not relevant to 2014 anyway.

It seems the closest Telstra tower was on Middle Brother at that time. It has been extensively discussed here previously.
So it seems the FP's phones were Telstra, as was most people who used them for business back then.

 

[Leon Higgins]

Texts often will come through even where no ability to voice call, but often with a delay.
My memory of the inquest testimony is that she either didn't receive it until he was already home, or didn't look at her phone until after he was home.

But her phone was turned off according to others on this thread.

 

[winyhill]

But her phone was turned off according to others on this thread.

I didn't know that, but if that is the case, then it would not have come through at all until phone turned back on.
Another thing about the reception is: Did the FGM have a mobile phone? I have never heard this discussed.

It seems all the calls she made and received that we have knowledge of were using the landline. Very possible she did not have a mobile at all due to poor coverage and perhaps also her age.

 

[passball]

I didn't know that, but if that is the case, then it would not have come through at all until phone turned back on.
Another thing about the reception is: Did the FGM have a mobile phone? I have never heard this discussed.

It seems all the calls she made and received that we have knowledge of were using the landline. Very possible she did not have a mobile at all due to poor coverage and perhaps also her age.

She knew how to use the computer, pretty sure she would be able to use a mobile if not just for calls

 

[31550]

I didn't know that, but if that is the case, then it would not have come through at all until phone turned back on.
Another thing about the reception is: Did the FGM have a mobile phone? I have never heard this discussed.

It seems all the calls she made and received that we have knowledge of were using the landline. Very possible she did not have a mobile at all due to poor coverage and perhaps also her age.

In her Sep 2014 Statement FM is talking about the moment William disappeared:

"I walked all the way around. I went inside and walked through, calling out. Nothing.

Around this time [FF] sent me a text message saying he will be here in 5 minutes, I said to mum saying, "I think he has gone to find [FF]" . I thought he may have walked down this hill looking for [FF]'s car"

From this statement, the way it is written strongly implies she did receive and read the text message immediately it was sent. But it doesn't say so explicitly.

The phone records attached to FM Mar/Apr 2015 Statement are only for outgoing calls. None were made before 2.22pm. They don't provide any useful information about the text message. It's unclear whether it was an SMS or iMessage or other instant message.

In her 2015 statement she does say the reception at FGM house was bad, and that was why FF had to leave for his conference call.

The released/leaked part of the 2015 statement doesn't cover the time period when the text message was reportedly sent.

 

[passball]

That is pretty defamatory. And also makes no sense.

Why would a serving Police officer risk their career and even jail time just for a local they knew. Plus there was no secret about the phone call. I am referring to the fact there was a phone call, not the origin or contents, which obviously is what you mean.

And I am sure the Police would have checked it out to their satisfaction as where it came from. As she dealt with troubled youth, whatever it was would not have been made public.

Lots of people in all types of jobs risk their careers doing stuff they shouldnt.
Jubelin

 

[Jim Cricket]

Who took William then?

So you’re saying you don’t have an opinion on what happened and you never said FM didn’t do anything. I guess I just want to know what do you believe happened in the disappearance of William.

I don't have any opinion on what happened. As I've stated. None. I haven't seen or read any evidence that implicates anyone and it seems all NSW police have is a theory, which isn't evidence, so I don't even agree with them at this point. I do have a theory on why a lot of people want it to be FM though, but I'll keep that to myself because it's nothing to do with William's disappearance, which we ALL want solved no matter who it was.

 

[Jim Cricket]

FM drove to the airport without police knowing. They just did what they wanted. There was no regular welfare checks on them throughout the first night and following morning so they could have done anything. Were they watched, followed, bugged in Kendall? Doubt it. You can’t just assume the cops would have known if the FF drove out or not that first night. Did they note both cars kilometres on day 1? Probably not.

Just because we don't know of or think the cops had them in sight doesn't mean they weren't. It doesn't mean they were either, we just don't know. I don't expect to receive an email from them every time they do something and don't expect everything to be in the papers either. Do you think the cops are likely to tell the public they were secretly tailed or had trackers on their cars? It might come out in court but otherwise I wouldn't expect to hear about it.

 

[Curious Clues]

I don't have any opinion on what happened. As I've stated. None. I haven't seen or read any evidence that implicates anyone and it seems all NSW police have is a theory, which isn't evidence, so I don't even agree with them at this point. I do have a theory on why a lot of people want it to be FM though, but I'll keep that to myself because it's nothing to do with William's disappearance, which we ALL want solved no matter who it was.

That’s pretty dark. I don’t think there is anyone who “wants” it to be the FM. People want the truth so there can be justice for William.
The lack of evidence for the existence of something does not necessarily prove that it does not exist at all.
Im sure you will hop off the fence eventually little grasshopper.

 

[KEEP MOVING]

I don't have any opinion on what happened. As I've stated. None. I haven't seen or read any evidence that implicates anyone and it seems all NSW police have is a theory, which isn't evidence, so I don't even agree with them at this point. I do have a theory on why a lot of people want it to be FM though, but I'll keep that to myself because it's nothing to do with William's disappearance, which we ALL want solved no matter who it was.

Fair enough, I was just interested in what way you were leaning. You were and have been a little bit defensive of FM. And there is nothing wrong with that either. My opinion is simply based on all the lies and inconsistencies of all people present on that trip/stay. Nothing personal. Just opinion only. And I’m not unfairly targeting FM and don’t necessarily want her to be the culprit. Just trying to follow the dots. Could you please share your opinion or theories on why you believe everyone wants to blame or accuse FM. I’m genuinely interested. No games. Just tell us what you know or think. If you want to.

 

[Leon Higgins]

I think there is a misconception that the coroner released all the photos that were taken that morning. I am sure I remember from the transcript of the very early coroner's hearing that there were many more photos taken that morning. The coroner released five to the public. But Police and the coroner have access to all of them and they have not been released.

The FM claims in the police video in 2015 there were three, the coroner released 5. Why do you think there are more?

 

[LRitz]

Hypothetically Let’s say they had seized the computer and searched the house in Sydney. They may have found the sandals/shoes that went missing and some interesting images. It’s mind boggling incompetence.

It shows you how people ‘like us’ are treated differently to the marginalised. I am very privileged in comparison to the biological parents.

In FGM's which- way- would- I have- gone walkthrough, on Thursday, there appears to be at least one and possibly two computers in the house. So did they take these or not? I would expect it would take more than four days to check.

 

[LRitz]

The cars were either there or not and involved or not.
Perhaps with a planned abduction of a pedo criminal ring, they had other information.

There are lots of kids in Kendallarea. Why do you think they would target William. He is not special .He is only visiting for a few days. There are 3 adults expected to be at the house. He has allegedly not visited for some months. Why would they possibly think he would be alone in the front yard on Friday morning.
And park cars that could have been seen and identified by neighbours. So many people involved.
With respect, this does not sound plausible.

 

[LRitz]

Jubelin is so predictable. Always trying to get a few public jabs in about the current investigation before any upcoming inquest hearings or foster parent drama.
Bring it on, his investigation will surely trump all incompetent missing person investigations.

...High-handed, self-serving, grandstanding....concocted and false allegations......
and that was from the judge.

 

[31550]

...High-handed, self-serving, grandstanding....concocted and false allegations......
and that was from the judge.

Jubelin has repeatedly stated he believes the FM is completely innocent.
Has Jubelin ever stated where and when he believes the FM drove FGM car? What evidence does he have to support this belief? If she didn't drive the car, why does Jubelin think she said she did?
What is Jubelin's accepted timeline of events between 9am and 11am?
Has Jubelin ever stated whether he accepts there were 3 cars in Benaroon Drive that morning as per FM narrative?
If he does accept this, what efforts did he make to identify these cars and their drivers? Why did he not order a public appeal to find these cars and drivers?
If he doesn't believe in the three cars, why does he believe the FM insists they were there?
Has Jubelin ever explained how and why the FM deleted the 'Home in 5' text message?
Why did Jubelin never order forensic examination of the FGM car?
Where does Jubelin think SFR should be focussing their attention if not on the FM, and why?

 

[Leon Higgins]

In FGM's which- way- would- I have- gone walkthrough, on Thursday, there appears to be at least one and possibly two computers in the house. So did they take these or not? I would expect it would take more than four days to check.

Except they claimed they had seized the computers of the FP already. Just not the FGM by the look of it. That’s what I was pointing out. Did they subpoena these computers? If so why are they still there!

 

[LRitz]

They can't maintain the secret forever:
IMO
1.FM took that drive to dump the shoes (collected in the days following- most likely under the cover of darkness and moved). Why did it take her 4 days to reveal the drive to the cops if she genuinely was taking it to look for him?
2. FM deliberately avoided answering the shoe question on 000 call - yet would vigorously imply in years following he was wearing shoes. You can't go from the deck to the car in the space of 20 mins, putting shoes on in between. He was just a little innocent kid.
3. The last person to see William alive was MFC, when William was in the front seat of the car (FGM - initially avoided telling investigators about being shown the new car) This was just after 8am - no shoes on. The deception occurred on the deck at 7:37am-7:39am. Australians have been lied to since September 12th 2014.
4. William was never at the breakfast table - confirmed by the unbelievable slip of the tongue by the FGM - 3 of us...4 of us
5. The Spiderman outfit was deliberately worn that morning.... to tell a story, a narrative. His sister all rugged up, kept warm. All the PR has centered around a boy in Spiderman suit. Only purchased months earlier in Bali. Just imagine if he was dressed in plain clothes that morning, like his sister, it becomes a harder sell doesn't it.
6. Go back to September 1st 2014 and you will truly join the dots....

All my opinion, based on years of research. I'm ready for the dominoes to fall in 2026!

"Tell a lie ONCE and all your truths become questionable"

Why did she even mention the drive at all.

William allegedly had sandals on when playing outside after breakfast. They were described orange and blue with velcro. Then they set up on the patio/deck to draw. In the photo the sandals are off and next to the glass doors.
If there were no sandals at the house the easy explanation is William had them back on when he went to play tigers. FM or FGM could have helped him and not mentioned this. FGM after all forgot a lot of things.
If there were sandals still at the back door, then he had no sandals on. It looks a bit rough around the side of the house but kids playing might not care. I don't think the sandals are a thing. i don't think the sandals explain the alleged drive.
Maybe it was an error that he was not wearing sandals in the phots, IMO

 

[winyhill]

Peter the truck driver did not see her.

That does not mean she did not take the drive, the truck driver was only on the same route for about 5 mins. Also, he may have passed other vehicles he didn't recall. She may have been travelling same direction two minutes ahead or behind him. Many possibilities. And this was how many years later? 10?

He remembers the woman driving the black Camry because she had the audacity to park in an inconvenient location (for him). So there is still no evidence either way on that.

Who took William then?

I think this is not the first question that needs answers.
In order
First question...
What happened to William? Lost and perished? Abducted? Intentional murder? Sold to white slaver traders? Accidental death and body hidden? These have all been advanced as theories but to date there is no evidence for any of them.

Only then can you ask the second question, depending on the answer to the first question. As the suspects will differ depending on the answer to the first question.

So until the answer to the first question is known, with actual evidence, there is little point in asking the second question.

 

[winyhill]

The lack of evidence for the existence of something does not necessarily prove that it does not exist at all.

Very true, and we all need to remember that.
Also
"The lack of evidence for the existence of AA does not necessarily prove that ZZ is true"

 

[LRitz]

That does not mean she did not take the drive, the truck driver was only on the same route for about 5 mins. Also, he may have passed other vehicles he didn't recall. She may have been travelling same direction two minutes ahead or behind him. Many possibilities. And this was how many years later? 10?

But where is the semi driver who allegedly did see her?